Kenobi vs. Dooku

i have them equal

RotS novel says Dooku was afraid of Kenobi as a duelist. This leads me to believe Kenobi would win if the fight was saber only; otherwise, Dooku just abuses The Force on him and takes him out.

@ xmysticgohanx: why do you have them as such?

Dooku is above Obi-Wan in skill and power. A few months before ROTS, he repeatedly tags Kenobi while Kenobi can't land a single hit on him, even with Anakin to back him up. Dooku will have a hard time beating him in sabers, but if it comes down to the Force he utterly dominates.

@BoD (Away) This is canon though, in which Ben grows in his time on tatooine.

BoD (Away) wrote:Dooku is above Obi-Wan in skill and power. A few months before ROTS, he repeatedly tags Kenobi while Kenobi can't land a single hit on him, even with Anakin to back him up. Dooku will have a hard time beating him in sabers, but if it comes down to the Force he utterly dominates.

He is not, as demonstrated by Obi-Wan stalemating a superior version of Anakin in both sabers and Force power, unless you think Dooku is more powerful than Anakin. Pre-prime Obi-Wan also did much better than Dooku against Savage Oppress (who had Maul as backup) in a lightsaber duel. It's a matter of fighting styles.

Every time that Dooku has gained the upper hand vs RotS Obi-Wan it was in a 1v2 fight that forced Obi-Wan to use Ataru, an aggressive form that is not Obi-Wan's favorite and Dooku knows how to counter better than anyone, thanks to him being Yoda's Padawan and Qui-Gon's Master. This is a distinct advantage that helped Dooku beat Obi-Wan in RotS, as supported by Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force:

Familiar with Obi-Wan's fighting style, the Dark Lord once again got the better of him.

In the end, Dooku would indeed beat RotS Obi-Wan, but the reason is a stylistic advantage. The moment Kenobi goes aggressive, switching from Soresu to Ataru, it would be to Dooku's benefit.

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:@ xmysticgohanx: why do you have them as such?

He beat Obi wan but Obi wan went on to basically stalemate Anakin who beat Dooku

Kenobi wins by the end of RotS

DarthAdi wrote:Dooku beats ROTS Kenobi again. Not sure about Ben Kenobi.

RotS >>> Old Ben

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

DarthAdi wrote:Dooku beats ROTS Kenobi again. Not sure about Ben Kenobi.

RotS >>> Old Ben

Canon Ben >>>

Rohirrim wrote:

BoD (Away) wrote:Dooku is above Obi-Wan in skill and power. A few months before ROTS, he repeatedly tags Kenobi while Kenobi can't land a single hit on him, even with Anakin to back him up. Dooku will have a hard time beating him in sabers, but if it comes down to the Force he utterly dominates.

He is not, as demonstrated by Obi-Wan stalemating a superior version of Anakin in both sabers and Force power, unless you think Dooku is more powerful than Anakin. Pre-prime Obi-Wan also did much better than Dooku against Savage Oppress (who had Maul as backup) in a lightsaber duel. It's a matter of fighting styles.

Every time that Dooku has gained the upper hand vs RotS Obi-Wan it was in a 1v2 fight that forced Obi-Wan to use Ataru, an aggressive form that is not Obi-Wan's favorite and Dooku knows how to counter better than anyone, thanks to him being Yoda's Padawan and Qui-Gon's Master. This is a distinct advantage that helped Dooku beat Obi-Wan in RotS, as supported by Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force:

Familiar with Obi-Wan's fighting style, the Dark Lord once again got the better of him.

In the end, Dooku would indeed beat RotS Obi-Wan, but the reason is a stylistic advantage. The moment Kenobi goes aggressive, switching from Soresu to Ataru, it would be to Dooku's benefit.

Fair points, actually.

IG (Exists) wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

DarthAdi wrote:Dooku beats ROTS Kenobi again. Not sure about Ben Kenobi.

RotS >>> Old Ben

Canon Ben >>>

Canon Ben is not above RotS Kenobi unless you have evidence my friend.

@AlakanSpacewalker: Perhaps Logic? There's nothing saying he's weaker, and he's able to contend with Prime Vader (who's >>>> ROTS Kenobi).

IG (Exists) wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker: Perhaps Logic? There's nothing saying he's weaker, and he's able to contend with Prime Vader (who's >>>> ROTS Kenobi).

Read the Kenobi novel for proof he’s weaker or listen to TPM behind the scenes where Lucas says “we’ve never seen real Jedi at work, all we’ve seen are crippled cyborgs, old men (like Ben), and little boys who learned from the old men. I thought Vader’s prime was ESB. Wut? Oh, and Rots Kenobi could match the power of not burned Vader who has been describe the superior two is burnt south at least three times (1: Rise of Darth Vader 2: RotS novel 3: Fightsaber). No matter how you slice it, RotS Kenobi is Kenobi’s prime.

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker: Perhaps Logic? There's nothing saying he's weaker, and he's able to contend with Prime Vader (who's >>>> ROTS Kenobi).

Read the Kenobi novel for proof he’s weaker or listen to TPM behind the scenes where Lucas says “we’ve never seen real Jedi at work, all we’ve seen are crippled cyborgs, old men (like Ben), and little boys who learned from the old men. I thought Vader’s prime was ESB. Wut? Oh, and Rots Kenobi could match the power of not burned Vader who has been describe the superior two is burnt south at least three times (1: Rise of Darth Vader 2: RotS novel 3: Fightsaber). No matter how you slice it, RotS Kenobi is Kenobi’s prime.

That's legends... this is a canon thread kek.

Dooku stomps via proximity to Vader

IG (Exists) wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker: Perhaps Logic? There's nothing saying he's weaker, and he's able to contend with Prime Vader (who's >>>> ROTS Kenobi).

Read the Kenobi novel for proof he’s weaker or listen to TPM behind the scenes where Lucas says “we’ve never seen real Jedi at work, all we’ve seen are crippled cyborgs, old men (like Ben), and little boys who learned from the old men. I thought Vader’s prime was ESB. Wut? Oh, and Rots Kenobi could match the power of not burned Vader who has been describe the superior two is burnt south at least three times (1: Rise of Darth Vader 2: RotS novel 3: Fightsaber). No matter how you slice it, RotS Kenobi is Kenobi’s prime.

That's legends... this is a canon thread kek.

Oh... well he still looked and acted like he was in his 80s which leads me to believe he had some aging involved. Plus matching the power of unburned Anakin >>> losing to to burnt one who was very cautious and almost holding back against him because he didn’t want to be turned into a burnt husk again.

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker: Perhaps Logic? There's nothing saying he's weaker, and he's able to contend with Prime Vader (who's >>>> ROTS Kenobi).

Read the Kenobi novel for proof he’s weaker or listen to TPM behind the scenes where Lucas says “we’ve never seen real Jedi at work, all we’ve seen are crippled cyborgs, old men (like Ben), and little boys who learned from the old men. I thought Vader’s prime was ESB. Wut? Oh, and Rots Kenobi could match the power of not burned Vader who has been describe the superior two is burnt south at least three times (1: Rise of Darth Vader 2: RotS novel 3: Fightsaber). No matter how you slice it, RotS Kenobi is Kenobi’s prime.

That's legends... this is a canon thread kek.

Oh... well he still looked and acted like he was in his 80s which leads me to believe he had some aging involved. Plus matching the power of unburned Anakin >>> losing to to burnt one who was very cautious and almost holding back against him because he didn’t want to be turned into a burnt husk again.

There's nothing in canon saying that vader was hindered though. And rebels disproves the notion of Kenobi being old and out of his prime. The special effects of the time weren't capable of showing this. Suit Vader >>>> Anakin in canon anyway.

IG (Exists) wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker: Perhaps Logic? There's nothing saying he's weaker, and he's able to contend with Prime Vader (who's >>>> ROTS Kenobi).

Read the Kenobi novel for proof he’s weaker or listen to TPM behind the scenes where Lucas says “we’ve never seen real Jedi at work, all we’ve seen are crippled cyborgs, old men (like Ben), and little boys who learned from the old men. I thought Vader’s prime was ESB. Wut? Oh, and Rots Kenobi could match the power of not burned Vader who has been describe the superior two is burnt south at least three times (1: Rise of Darth Vader 2: RotS novel 3: Fightsaber). No matter how you slice it, RotS Kenobi is Kenobi’s prime.

That's legends... this is a canon thread kek.

Oh... well he still looked and acted like he was in his 80s which leads me to believe he had some aging involved. Plus matching the power of unburned Anakin >>> losing to to burnt one who was very cautious and almost holding back against him because he didn’t want to be turned into a burnt husk again.

There's nothing in canon saying that vader was hindered though. And rebels disproves the notion of Kenobi being old and out of his prime. The special effects of the time weren't capable of showing this. Suit Vader >>>> Anakin in canon anyway.

Oh, I keep forgetting this is the Disney versions cause I don’t really read that much of Disney canon other than the Darth Vader comics, the flagship Star Wars run by Aaron, a few issues of Age of Republic, a bit of Darth Maul stuff, and the Anakin and Obi Wan comic; that’s about it. Just because Kenobi tricked a weakened post prime Maul into making a bad move doesn’t mean he’s still in his prime. Then why do all versions of the ANH comics and novels not paint the fight in any new light with the characters being faster and better swordsmen? There has to be an in universe explanation for that. Also i think a writer once said Legends books that tied into the movies are technically canon until Disney properly retcons them. Also how is Vader above his not crippled self in Disney canon?

@AlakanSpacewalker It's stated in Lords of the Sith, and Hidalgo (I think) said that Rebels is his prime.

IG (Exists) wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker It's stated in Lords of the Sith, and Hidalgo (I think) said that Rebels is his prime.

Just because Vader said “being burnt peeled back a layer of flesh to Reveal himself” or something like that doesn’t mean that he was actually stronger than he was in RotS. And can you link me the interview where Pablo says that because just saying he said it without proof isn’t evidence.

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker It's stated in Lords of the Sith, and Hidalgo (I think) said that Rebels is his prime.

Just because Vader said “being burnt peeled back a layer of flesh to Reveal himself” or something like that doesn’t mean that he was actually stronger than he was in RotS. And can you link me the interview where Pablo says that because just saying he said it without proof isn’t evidence.

This is the source that people cite: https://youtu.be/mTkd0MKEm2I?t=131

But Pablo's statement is very ambigious.

Latham2000 wrote:

AlakanSpacewalker wrote:

IG (Exists) wrote:@AlakanSpacewalker It's stated in Lords of the Sith, and Hidalgo (I think) said that Rebels is his prime.

Just because Vader said “being burnt peeled back a layer of flesh to Reveal himself” or something like that doesn’t mean that he was actually stronger than he was in RotS. And can you link me the interview where Pablo says that because just saying he said it without proof isn’t evidence.

This is the source that people cite: https://youtu.be/mTkd0MKEm2I?t=131

But Pablo's statement is very ambigious.

I got it, though that statement is contradicted by other statements...

No it isn’t..