Top Fifteen Tournament - New and Updated Format

LadyKulvax wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:1.Knightfall Vader (15)
2.Onimi(14)
3.Irek Ismaren(13)
4.Grand Master Skywalker (12)
5.Reborn Darth Sidious (11)
6.Tenebrae (10)
7.Exar Kun (9)
8.Sarasu Taalon(8)
9.Darth Caedus (7)
10.The Outlander (6)
11.Empress Vaylin (5)
12.Revan (4)
13.Darish Vol (3)
14.Obi-Wan Kenobi(2)
15.Darth Tyranus (1)

Updated

Huh???
Why is KF 1 why is Sheev so low, why is Kenobi about Tyranus, why is Taalon above Vol

KingofBlades wrote:Isn't onimi banned

Didn't see Yuuzhan'tar in the list.

Vaelias wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:1.Knightfall Vader (15)
2.Onimi(14)
3.Irek Ismaren(13)
4.Grand Master Skywalker (12)
5.Reborn Darth Sidious (11)
6.Tenebrae (10)
7.Exar Kun (9)
8.Sarasu Taalon(8)
9.Darth Caedus (7)
10.The Outlander (6)
11.Empress Vaylin (5)
12.Revan (4)
13.Darish Vol (3)
14.Obi-Wan Kenobi(2)
15.Darth Tyranus (1)

Updated

Huh???
Why is KF 1

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t649189.html

Vaelias wrote:why is Sheev so low,

He's not, just isn't as strong as those above him.

Vaelias wrote:why is Kenobi about Tyranus,

Because he becomes a near equal of Vader, who is undoubtedly beyond Dooku by a magnitude.

Vaelias wrote:why is Taalon above Vol

Pool.

AP do you actually think the gaps between KFV and Dooku/Kenobi are bigger than the gaps between Tenebrae and Outlander/Vaylin/Revan lol

Absolutely.

UPDATED

1. Darth Sidious 
2. Luke Skywalker
3. Valkorion
4. Exar Kun
5. Lord Nyax 
6. Darth Maul (Legacy)
7. Yoda 
8. Ferleen Snee
9. Darth Krayt
10. Darth Vader
11. Darth Caedus
12. Cin Drallig
13. Hero of Coruscant
14. Darth Tyranus 
15. Mace Windu

Another knee slapper right there

CuckedCurry wrote:Another knee slapper right there

What doth be thy issues ?

sheev > luke, drallig > dooku, vader > caedus, etc

By Vader I assume he means KFV, other than that you're on a roll bro

KingofBlades wrote:By Vader I assume he means KFV, other than that you're on a roll bro

i mean, around these parts, its either anakin, or KFV, MAYBE u get a 'mustafar anakin/vader', but not very often.
dude who made the list, which one u talking about?

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:sheev > luke, drallig > dooku, vader > caedus, etc

Well Sheev certainly is > Luke tbh. nothing even puts him behind, people just say it
Drallig is game Drallig so is > Dooku easily
and Vader is KFV

ill leave this to someone more knowledgeable than me tbh dont wanna get burned by playing with fire

so no scans

Cloaked66: About Ressurrection, Darth Maul was brought back specifically to kill Vader and replace him as Darth Sidious apprentice right? So was Maul prepared and/or powered up to duel Vader?

Ron Marz: Yes and Yes.

Cloaked66: Maul and the Prophets agreed that Vader had too much of the light in him, and yet, they were fighting in a Dark Side Nexus. Would that mean Maul was massively power boosted, by the prophets and the planet's Nexus, while Vader was actually weaker because of it?

Ron Marz: You're overthinking it a bit at this point. I'm glad you're engaged in the story, but ultimately it's just a story.

Cloaked66: And I understand that, but the thing is that it caused many controversies between fans, specially because many things in the EU that came after it changed the way of viewing that story completely, so I wanted to use your explanation to make things clearer.

Ron Marz: Not sure what came after it; I have no control over that, so it does not play any part in my story.

Cloaked66: But when talking about Ressurrection, plot-wise, was Vader nerfed by the circumstances or not?

Ron Marz: He won, so apparently not.

Cloaked66: Ron, I just have two last questions about Ressurrection for you, it seems that your answers created a pretty big tumult in the forum in which people were talking about that. May I ask them?

Ron Marz: Yes, but these are the last two, please.

Cloaked66: 1: If Vader attacked Maul with The Force to toss, shove or choke him would he just kill him like it was implied?
2: Did Maul held advantage on dueling because of his better mobility and preparation, meaning he exploited Vader's weakness?
Also sorry for being annoying

Ron Marz: 1) Hypothetical, so we really don't know.
2) Yes, Maul had better mobility, whereas Vader is like a tank.

https://twitter.com/LoCabbage/status/1227289825604227073

me sayin that maul has an advantage is invalid cuz its part of him (or some shit like that, idk), maul used agility in some way or another throughout the whole fight, and me talking about what happened in the actual story somehow means that i agreed with u? um ok, cool beans dawg

Yup.  Trying to say it's not as impressive because Maul had an agility advantage against Vader is like saying Anakin beating Dooku isn't impressive because he has a force power advantage.  It doesn't make sense at all.  You can't take away a fighter's skillset.

why did you say this then

iamthatguy wrote:Wait, so you're going to ask me for a citation yet claimed DE Sidious dominated Luke in combat?

?

"DE Luke was in no way comparable to DE Sheev, Sheev is magnitudes beyond Luke at this point"

Yes I stand by that, Luke is nowhere near DE Sheev, not in the slightest, not even nearly close to him
clearly you need to read DE again lol

DE Sidious was only able to undermine end of DE Luke by using TP and storms.

Citation needed, George never spoke on post ROTJ comics and novels at all, and certainly didn't confirm DE Luke was Lukes full potential, again shitting Lucas quotes out your ass 

My bad, misremembered one of his quotes.

Not really, being a dark side counterpart doesn't mean parity at all

Prove it.

Which I acknowledged.  How does this change anything?  

if you cant see how it changes anything then I question your intelligence, your claim was that Luke was comparable to DE Sheev, if you also acknowledge him being amped to the high heavens to compete with a fraction of Sheev's power, how would that not change anything, I do not understand how you can acknowledge that and still conclude he is comparable.

Because Sheev was also amped?

How, its clear as day lemme explain it again nice and simple


-TCW Quote: all present tense, speaking from a point of view of the clone wars era, referring to TCW Sidious, modern times clearly means TCW 
- Databank quote: All past tense, talks about Legacy era and Darth Krayt, Modern times clearly means Legacy seeing as that is the period the OOU narration is coming from mentions Krayt


if you are not convinced now then I'm sorry but that's just dumb.

I understand it, but it really makes no sense at all.  Krayt was a peer of a much stronger Luke than DE Luke, who was only slightly under DE Sidious combat wise.

If they're using Sidious' force storms as his actual power, than fair I guess.  But I was just thinking from a combat perspective, since Sidious couldn't pull that off in combat without killing himself.

Bro, do u know what Midichlorians do, I literally explained in my first post lol, Midichlorians are the conduit in which the force speaks to you, if there is less Midichlorians you have less force power because you have less matter for which the force to channel itself through, it has been confirmed millions of times that Vader lost force power because of this and Lucas confirmed ROTJ Vader and Luke are weaker than TPM Jinn and Kenobi 

There are multiple Legends sources saying Vader got more powerful after Mustafar.

George Lucas, Star Wars The Empire Strikes Back DVD commentary wrote:Now he's half-machine and half-man so he's lost a lot of the power of the Force and a lot of his ability to become more powerful than the Emperor

Star Wars Encyclopedia - Darth Vader wrote:Darth Vader was encased in sinister black armor. The man underneath was mortally wounded in a lightsaber duel, and the dark suit includes extensive machinery to keep Vader alive. The sounds of his mechanical lungs accompany his every step. Such injuries greatly diminished his ability to use the Force, but Vader is still very powerful.

I dont know what on earth your basis is for that retarded claim but this should clear some stuff up

Literally all of those quotes refer to Vader not being able to reach his full potential.  There is nothing saying he can't be stronger than what he was on Mustafar.

Yeh that's not the same quote that is claiming Anakin = Sidious, the one that says Anakin = Sidious is NOT referring to potential. Besides Anakin not surpassing the emperor doesn't preclude them being equals at all 

That's the quote I've seen most people pull for Anakin's parity with Sidious.

Dooku has never been confirmed to be an 8 outside of non binding Emails,

Why exactly are they nonbinding.

ROTS Yoda is a 9 and so is AOTC Yoda.

Nah.  Sidious is the only explicit 9 mentioned during AOTC.  Yoda was mentioned, but he wasn't mentioned as a 9.

but that isn't even relevant to the what you are responding to, you claimed C-Canon sources overruled Maul and Jinn being equally matched, even though the sources I cited that state they are evenly matched is G-Canon, so no C-Canon does not override G-Canon at all, god you are stubborn, learn to just concede when you are beaten its a lot more respectable than carrying on blabbering about points that are canonically incorrect 

The episode 1 Maul journal is C-Canon though?

Jinn was tiring and not amped, idk where you got that from lol, anyway its a G-Canon quote soooo... 

"He had found a fresh reserve a strength during his meditation, and now he was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied".

Vaelias wrote:

The Fallen Warrior wrote:oh? so we are all still being retards?

only Iamthatguy

@iamthatguy

DE Sidious was only able to undermine end of DE Luke by using TP and storms.

ill ask again for this citation that you failed to provide last time

Prove it.

Your the one making the claim you are the one that needs to prove it, an unless u think Cade Skywalker > Luke Skywalker then the answer seems pretty clear tbh

Because Sheev was also amped?

He wasn't though, he cant physically exert any more power through his rotting body, its already decaying with the power he possesses, also Sheev is a Nexus and a Nexus cant be amped by a Nexus especially a Nexus that is created because of his own power and is weaker than his own Nexus

I understand it, but it really makes no sense at all. Krayt was a peer of a much stronger Luke than DE Luke, who was only slightly under DE Sidious combat wise.

If they're using Sidious' force storms as his actual power, than fair I guess. But I was just thinking from a combat perspective, since Sidious couldn't pull that off in combat without killing himself.

Obviously its referring to full power, and Krayt is not a peer of Luke at this point

There are multiple Legends sources saying Vader got more powerful after Mustafar.

yep all from bin tier sources like children's books that are all outdated and retconned to fuck by G-Canon

Literally all of those quotes refer to Vader not being able to reach his full potential. There is nothing saying he can't be stronger than what he was on Mustafar.

are you actually a retard ?

Now he's half-machine and half-man so he's lost a lot of the power of the Force
Such injuries greatly diminished his ability to use the Force
The skill and power that Anakin shows as a young man is greater than what we see in the class films, as Vader
his formidable powers were drastically reduced by his injuries
The Jedi from the prequels would demonstrate far more power and agility than they had in the classic trilogy

It quite literally cant get clearer than that, like it literally can not get any clearer

That's the quote I've seen most people pull for Anakin's parity with Sidious.

There's 2 G-Canon quotes and 2 IU C-Canon quotes that I've shown you and you have previously proven too dumb to understand

Why exactly are they nonbinding.

Because the only reason Gillard statements were binding was because he was part of the production team and decided upon his statements in accordance with Lucas, the emails are him no longer part of the team and nothing is relayed with Lucas

Nah. Sidious is the only explicit 9 mentioned during AOTC. Yoda was mentioned, but he wasn't mentioned as a 9.

So you are just assuming he is not a 9? its out in the open but we can assume he is a 9 from literally ALL evidence we have and not just 'bEcaUsE hE wAsnT mEnTioNeD aS oNe'
use your head

The episode 1 Maul journal is C-Canon though?

Yes it is, Whats your point ? G-Canon has them as equals

"He had found a fresh reserve a strength during his meditation, and now he was attacking with a ferocity that seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied".

Yeh, as I said he was tiring, he regained his energy essentially not an amp lol, if go on a run then sit down an rest for a minute and go again you wouldn't say I'm 'amped' would you lol

1. Darth Sidious
2. Mace Windu
3. Yoda
4. Darth Bane
5. Dowmat
6. Lord Hoth
7. Lord Kaan
8. Raskta Lsu
9. Johun Othone
10. Valkorion
11. Vaylin
12. Darth Sion
13. Darth Nihilus
14. Kas'im
15. Starkiller

did that guy answer questions like a retarded fairy on purpose or something? cuz that shit was astoundingly stupid to read.

not u smh

ill ask again for this citation that you failed to provide last time

Palpatine: Curse you, Jedi! No. A curse is not necessary. I have something better for you. Skywalker! I have broken you. Now, prove yourself worthy of serving me. (Sound of lightsaber activating.)

Luke: Yes, my master.

Palpatine: Bring your sister over to the dark side. You have the power.

Leia: (Sounds of waving lightsabers.) I don't know what he's done to you, Luke, but this time we're really leaving.

Luke: Leia, put the lightsaber away. I don't want to hurt you.

Leia: The last thing I'd do is hurt you, Luke. What's happened to you is not final.

Palpatine: (Palpatine laughs.) He cannot hear you, child. To him, you are a ghost. The faint memory of a former life.

Leia: Luke...listen. (Sound of lightsaber deactivating.) Luke. Oh, what have you done? What's behind his vacant stare?

Palpatine: Why, nothing, my child. Nothing. (Sound of the Force being used. Sound of speech echoing within Luke's mind.)

Luke: Nothing.

Palpatine: You are nothing.

Luke: Where am I?

Palpatine: Alone.

Luke: No. Help me.

Palpatine: There is no one. There is only the dark side.

Luke: I am a Jedi. (Luke screams.)

Palpatine: You are not a Jedi. You are nothing. You have no name.

Luke: My name is Skywalker. (Luke screams.)

Palpatine: You...have...no...name!

Luke: I...

Palpatine: Accept the dark side. You have no name.

Luke: I have no name.

Palpatine: You serve the dark side.

Luke: I serve...

Palpatine: Listen to the voices.

Luke: The voices...

Palpatine: Of the dark side.

Luke: Yes.

Palpatine: The one law is fear. The one fear is power. The one power is hate.

Luke: Hate.

Leia: Luke.

Palpatine: Hate.

Leia: Luke, clear your mind.

Luke: Leia?

Palpatine: The one law is fear. The one fear is power!

Leia: Luke, I'm your sister. I need you.

Luke: My sister.

Palpatine: You are alone.

Leia: Luke, listen to my voice. My child...will be a very great Jedi, because you will train him. You will train all my children in the ways of the Force.

Palpatine: Do not listen!

Luke: The Force... Leia... The Force... I am not alone. I am never alone!

(Sound of Force fades. Sound of voices returning to normal audibility.)

Palpatine: No! This can't be. No one returns from the dark side. You're mine!

Luke: Leia, help me. I've gone too far. I've found knowledge, all the dark things Father knew so well. The ability to control others, to destroy others if he chose, if I chose. Ben warned me; Yoda warned me. But I had to do it, Leia! I had to know what happened to our father! I had to know why he chose the dark side.

Leia: And now you know what happened to our father. It's time to come home, Luke.

Palpatine: Do not listen to her. Listen to the voice of the dark side. Your power is immense.

Luke: No. The powers of control and destruction weren't the only things I found in the dark side, Emperor. I also found great isolation and sadness. I found fear. These are the feelings my father felt. The feelings you feel, in your moments of darkest triumph.

Palpatine: Nonsense! Curse you Skywalkers, both of you! I'll tell you the truth about your father. (Sound of the Force being used. Luke screams. Sound of Force fades.)

Palpatine: The great Darth Vader was a sick man in an iron mask! Yes, that mask inspired terror throughout the galaxy, but the feeble heart within was forever possessed by the impotent side of the Force. You can be far stronger than he was. Dark Jedi, are you going to let your weak sister get the better of you? Get up! I can give you the power to break her. You will kill your sister, if I demand it!

Luke: No! I made a mistake. I thought I had to save the galaxy alone, all by myself. But the way of the Jedi is not a solitary path.

Leia: (Leia gasps.) The Holocron! Luke, the Holocron told me to join with my brother!

Luke: Yes. The Force binds us. Brings us together. Many people are fighting this war together. Our ally is the Force. Through the strength of the Force, your shroud of evil has been lifted from my mind!

Source: Dark Empire Audio Drama

Your the one making the claim you are the one that needs to prove it, an unless u think Cade Skywalker > Luke Skywalker then the answer seems pretty clear tbh

Except Krayt toyed with Cade, that argument has been debunked many, many times.

Being the dark counterpart on the throne of BALANCE, implies parity.

He wasn't though, he cant physically exert any more power through his rotting body, its already decaying with the power he possesses, also Sheev is a Nexus and a Nexus cant be amped by a Nexus especially a Nexus that is created because of his own power and is weaker than his own Nexus

He was amped by Byss is what I meant.

Obviously its referring to full power, and Krayt is not a peer of Luke at this point

Why would Krayt not be a peer of Luke exactly?

yep all from bin tier sources like children's books that are all outdated and retconned to fuck by G-Canon

You mean the G-canon which only says Vader lost potential power, not actualized power?

are you actually a retard ?

Nope, starting to wonder if this forum is though.

Now he's half-machine and half-man so he's lost a lot of the power of the Force
Such injuries greatly diminished his ability to use the Force
The skill and power that Anakin shows as a young man is greater than what we see in the class films, as Vader
his formidable powers were drastically reduced by his injuries
The Jedi from the prequels would demonstrate far more power and agility than they had in the classic trilogy

It quite literally cant get clearer than that, like it literally can not get any clearer

Source them.

There's 2 G-Canon quotes and 2 IU C-Canon quotes that I've shown you and you have previously proven too dumb to understand

IU quotes are fallible, and there is no OOU quote which says Anakin is > Palpatine. No matter how much you twist it, those quotes clearly refer to potential otherwise OT Luke>ROTS Sidious.

There is however, OOU quotes saying Palpatine, Yoda, and Windu > Anakin as of Mustafar, and that when Anakin became 30 could he then beat the Emperor.

"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor," Lucas says. "If Anakin hadn't got all beat up, he could've beat the Emperor."

"By the time Anakin was 30he would have become so strong that no amount of force lore and dark knowledge would be enough to save Palpatine".

Not that I believe it would take Anakin 8 more years to overthrow the Emperor, but George was just making a point that Anakin couldn't beat Sidious as of ROTS, hence the previous statement of the titans being > Anakin as of Mustafar.

Because the only reason Gillard statements were binding was because he was part of the production team and decided upon his statements in accordance with Lucas, the emails are him no longer part of the team and nothing is relayed with Lucas

And you have a reason to believe he would blatantly lie because?

So you are just assuming he is not a 9? its out in the open but we can assume he is a 9 from literally ALL evidence we have and not just 'bEcaUsE hE wAsnT mEnTioNeD aS oNe'
use your head

It was pretty clearly inferred that Sidious is the only 9 as of AOTC.

Regardless, Yoda not being able to capture Dooku (despite holding back) makes it pretty clear he isn't near his ROTS incarnation.  As someone like Sidious would easily be able to subdue Dooku without a prolonged fight.

Yes it is, Whats your point ? G-Canon has them as equals

My point was the quote you pulled was C-canon as well.

Anyway the movie, which is G-canon, doesn't have them as equals.  You don't 1v2 your equal+another fighter and win, you don't kill your equal in 30 seconds, you aren't "fresh as ever" after killing your equal.

Yeh, as I said he was tiring, he regained his energy essentially not an amp lol, if go on a run then sit down an rest for a minute and go again you wouldn't say I'm 'amped' would you lol

Yeah but you wouldn't be running at a faster rate, which is exactly what Qui-Gon did.  He was now attacking with a ferocity that "seemed to have the Sith Lord stymied".

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:did that guy answer questions like a retarded fairy on purpose or something? cuz that shit was astoundingly stupid to read.

Aren't you the same kid that tried arguing Maul isn't better than Vader because he has a speed advantage? By that logic, Anakin isn't better than Dooku since he has a strength advantage.

You are truly mindboggling.

iamthatguy wrote:

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:did that guy answer questions like a retarded fairy on purpose or something? cuz that shit was astoundingly stupid to read.

Aren't you the same kid that tried arguing Maul isn't better than Vader because he has a speed advantage?  By that logic, Anakin isn't better than Dooku since he has a strength advantage.

You are truly mindboggling.

lmao u funny as fuck my dude. when u find a good a way to counter that, come back to me instead of wasting my time with ur trash ass insults. go grow some pubes, alright? ur gonna need them after ur balls drop.

Clash of the gods