★ Top Fifteen Tournament #9 - Mace Windu

LadyKulvax wrote:

EXAR KUN

First of all, the actual power levels of Exar Kun's domain are considerably vast:

Exhibit A: Tott Doneeta

Tott Doneeta manages to hold off a Ryloth heat storm with the Force:



These heat storms have speeds of 500 kilometers an hour and a temperature of 300 degrees celcius:



These things were immense:



They can reduce a person to dust before they can collapse:



Exhibit B: Nomi Sunrider

Aleema Keto and her cousin Satal, are chosen by Freedon Nadd over King Ommin as better apprentices:




Ommin was a powerful sorceror, who could cast a shadow of corruption over Onderon and dominate the populace with the dark side:

Tales of the Jedi Companion wrote:King Ommin rose to power in the same manner as his ancestors of the last three centuries: by dominating the populace of Onderon with the dark side.

Ommin himself was strong enough to overpower Arca Jeth:


Arca in turn overcame the dark taint of Freedon Nadd's sarcophagus and ended Queen Amanoa:



These energies are not insignificant, the sarcophagus still has so much power that 50 years later, it is a significant site for the Sith Triumvirate:

Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Official Prima Game Guide wrote:Whether because you want to deny them Freedon Nadd's power or because you refuse to share it with anyone else, you have no choice but to fight.

Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"I can taste the power of the dark side here. Freedon Nadd must have been truly great to leave such an impact. The echoes of his life are still here."

Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"I can sense the power from this place. It's like the light abandoned it long ago. I fear the Sith shall be very strong here."

Queen Amanoa herself drove an entire army of Beast Riders and their mounts mad, noting the size of this army:



NOTE: Each Beast-Lord maintains his own army, so do your own math on this one.

Aleema Keto and her weaker cousin Satal, had such power as they began to dabble in Sith magicks, that they corrupted the world of Cinnagar:

Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith Audiobook Pt.2 wrote:Satal Keto and his cousin Aleema, have begun to explore the magic of the Sith and have used it to corrupt their homeworld in the Empress Teta system.

Despite this power, Nomi destroys Aleema in telepathy, whether she's attacking or defending:





Despite all of this power, Tott and Nomi, with the aid of Oss Willum, Cay Qel-Droma and Qrrl, are incapable of subduing Ulic Qel-Droma who focuses his power through an amulet, attacking omnidirectionally with Force lightning and telekinesis:



Ulic famously stalemated Exar Kun, and Kun by this point had already displayed galactic scale feats:

The Essential Guide to Characters wrote:Nadd offered Kun a way to live, and to repair his broken body: if he embraced the dark side, he would be healed. The betrayal of light was not an easy one for Kun, but the desire to live was stronger. He accepted the dark side, his screams reaching out across the galaxy and creating ripples in the Force.

The New Essential Chronology wrote:Exar Kun let out a tremendous shriek that echoed across the galaxy, calling in despair upon Master Vodo, whom he had abandoned.

Ulic disappears for years after joining Exar Kun, where he gains tremendous power in the dark side:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Ulic was then confronted by another fallen Jedi, Exar Kun. As they engaged in a lightsaber battle, the Sith Amulets both Jedi wore began to glow, and they were visited by spirits of the Ancient Sith Lords who told them that Kun was the new Dark Lord of the Sith and Qel-Droma his first assistant. Years later, Ulic reappeared with tremendous dark side powers and set out to plunder and destroy large parts of the galaxy with a large and bloodthirsty army serving alongside Exar Kun.

Ulic then attacks Coruscant, but when faced with Vodo Siosk-Baas, his weapon is telekinetically torn from his grasp and his connection to the Force blocked:




NOTE: I consider this a majority Vodo Siosk-Baas feat because the Jedi with him couldn't subdue Ulic alone, and almost died trying, and that was years before Ulic had grown far more powerful. Furthermore, it's said that Ulic would become equal to not more powerful than, the mightiest Jedi masters of the time; which Vodo is one of, indicating Ulic became equal to Vodo after Coruscant:

The Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:Nadd foretold that Ulic would one day be a great Sith Lord, equal to the mightiest Jedi masters.

With Ulic captured and in chains, Exar Kun arrives at his trial in the Senate where Kun hypnotises the entire Senate and maintains that whilst defeating Vodo, who is stated to stand 'no chance' against Kun's 'deep reserve of dark side power':

Power of the Jedi Sourcebook wrote:Ulic’s trial was interrupted by Exar Kun, who met his former Master face to face for the first time since his long descent into darkness. The two fought, and Vodo-Siosk Baas was no match for Exar Kun’s double-bladed lightsaber and deep reserve of dark side power. Vodo-Siosk perished, slain by his former apprentice.

After this, Exar Kun initially met his match against Ood Bnar, who taps the power of a Force nexus so strong it's implied that it prevents the utter and total destruction of the planet:

Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith wrote:Ood resists Kun's attempts to steal the lightsabers by undergoing a final metamorphosis, plunging roots into the ground and driving Kun back with a blast of power drawn from the depths of Ossus.

Unlikely Survival of Ossus Codex Entry wrote:Ossus still bears the scars of the Cron Supernova: its surface is a seared wasteland of rock and sand. But even this degree of desolation is shockingly mild; that the planet was not rendered into a charred ball of molten rock, or even obliterated completely, is nothing short of miraculous.
Little academic work has been put forward to explain this unlikely survival; only conjecture. The initial cause of the supernova was unnatural; perhaps this explains the unnatural results? Ossus was a stronghold of the Jedi; does the inherent life force of such a place make it more resistant to destruction?

Kun leaves Ossus with a wealth of artifacts and knowledge, stated to be more than he could ever need, and thus becomes far more powerful than any Jedi of the time, which includes Ood:

Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith wrote:Looking at all the precious artifacts his Massassi have stolen, Exar Kun knows he has more wealth and knowledge than he could ever use.

The Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:She discovers the accounts of the Great Sith War, and learns that though Kun was far more powerful than any one other Jedi of the time, a combined force had defeated him.

Ood Bnar, of course, was capable of summoning the same power and taking out both Luke Skywalker and disintegrating Sedriss XL; a serious contender for Luke, at once:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Several thousand years later on the planet Ossus, Bnar reawakened to help save Jem Ysanna, a young woman with powers in the Force. He ultimately sacrificed himself to destroy the evil Imperial Military Executor Sedriss.
...
The Executor was destroyed by the power of an ancient Jedi, Ood Bnar.

Noting that at this point, Executor Sedriss is even closer to Darth Vader's power than Jerec was, who already rivalled Vader's power:

Handbook 3 wrote:Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebel's Pinnacle Base.

Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II Game Manual wrote:His [Jerec's] embrace of the Force's dark side gives him powers that rival Vader's.

Exar Kun himself at this point is the most powerful Sith in history:

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Kun, Exar. Once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith, he was responsible for the deaths of millions four millennia before the rise of the Empire.

Given Kun's power at this point naturally dwarfs that of any of the preceding Sith, he also scales majorly over the Sith Council who had already bestowed their power on Kun many years ago:



This means that he scales above the same spirits who'd attacked and gravely injured Pre-ESB Darth Sidious, per Sheev's own admission:



Prime Kun is also obviously more powerful than Marka Ragnos, who was more powerful than Darth Nihilus per Kreia who not only taught Nihilus the technique and how to consume worlds with it but had studied the Telos IV holocron stash and other vast sources such as the Trayus Academy knowledge which per Chris Avellone provides her with accurate estimations of the power of the ancient Sith:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"The blind seer, her master harnessed this technique and he is rapidly approaching the height of its power. I fear he may even rival some of the ancient Sith."

Kreia herself admits Nihilus is an entire magnitude beyond her in power:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:“One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."

Kreia herself was capable of literally one-shotting the entire Jedi Council:

SWTOR Codex Entry wrote:Part of Kreia’s plan involved decimating the Jedi Order. On Dantooine, Kreia severed Masters Vrook Lmar, Kavar, and Zez-Kai Ell from the Force, killing them within the Jedi Enclave.

Each of those masters were around the power of an amped Bastila Shan:

Bastila Shan, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"The Dark Side has made me stronger than I ever was before! I have a greater command of the Force than all but the most powerful Jedi masters."

Bastila Shan was capable of holding her own willpower against all of the corruptive apparatus; including torture by Force lightning, of Darth Malak for an entire week before succumbing:




Furthermore, Kun's effects on the galaxy and cosmos at this point represented a 'torrent' of the dark side which only ended with him being sealed within the Temple of Yavin IV:

Exar Kun, Star Wars Databank wrote:Before Vader, before Maul, before Sidious... there was a Dark Lord of the Sith that cast a shadow of terror and destruction across the galaxy. The ancient forces of the Republic and the Jedi banded together to stop the torrent of the dark side, and bring an end to Exar Kun's rule.

His return from slumber and the later return of his predecessor in Marka Ragnos, caused the Force itself to 'seethe':

Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties, starwars.com wrote:Seven years after the Battle of Endor, when Luke Skywalker established an academy with the intention of rebuilding the Jedi Order, the spirit of the ancient Sith Lord Exar Kun returned to prevent the Jedi Brotherhood's resurrection. Three short years later, another Sith daemon, this time the Dark Lord Marka Ragnos, also was called back from the realm of Chaos to terrorize the galaxy. This latter event was not isolated. Some of the disciples of Ragnos had formerly been aligned with the dark sider Hethrir and his Empire Reborn, which had been defeated only a short time prior. Worse, soon after the encounter with Ragnos, the lifeless body of the reformed Sith acolyte Flint was found on Belderone: an ancient Jedi lightsaber in hand, a cauterized hole through his throat.
The Force seethed with the suggestion of a grand, sinister scheme.

Exar Kun's spirit, factually far weaker than he was in his living prime, was capable by itself of defeating Master Luke:

Champions of the Force wrote:Afraid to challenge the dark power that had been sufficient to warp other students and defeat Master Skywalker.

Who by this point is in his prime:

Champions of the Force wrote:Luke clapped him on the back and smiled with dark-ringed eyes that shone with an inner brightness stronger than ever before. As he conquered each seemingly insurmountable obstacle, Luke's Jedi powers grew greater and greater- but, like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda, a Jedi Master learned to use his powers even less, relying on wits instead of showmanship.

I, Jedi wrote:When we had met before I had felt power in him, but now, after his experiences with the Emperor Reborn, his power had been redoubled. Physically he looked a bit haggard and worn, with the flesh around his eyes having tightened and wrinkles appearing at their corners. I knew we were the same age chronologically, but in experience he far surpassed me.

I could go on, but Exar Kun would smash Malgus' face in and he wouldn't need tricks like Vaapad or anything to do it.

LadyKulvax wrote:Because not only do the authors responsible say TOTJ > JA, but the actual sources make it exceptionally clear that the ritual was designed for the sole purpose of transforming him into a spirit so he could escape the Jedi attack. It didn't give him uber powers nor does anything say it did. Furthermore, we know for a fact that he had to literally hang-on to the temple focal points so as to resist the pull of the void on his spirit. He wasn't getting stronger, he just got used to his state. He literally was forced to slumber because he had no energy to sustain himself until Luke came and woke him up. He's literally described as seeking the power he would need to live again which is defined as restoring his lost reserves of energy:

Exar Kun-who didn't technically die so much as merge with the dark side and retain his identity-resisted the dissolution of his spirit by drawing on the remarkable focusing energies of the Massassi temples on Yavin 4.

See again:

Exar Kun passed the millennia in uneasy slumber.
A few scant years later, Kun is brought sharply awake by the arrival of not one or two, but a dozen humans blazing with the power he needed to live again. Eagerly but cautiously, Kun observes each arrival, probing for weaknesses and the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy. For a time, he is able to subside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active. With a nucleus of followers to provide him energy-providing anger and fear, Kun will have enough power to escape his exile and take on human form. To his surprise, Kun recognizes the leader to be the same man who had visited Yavin Four years earlier, now much more powerful in the Force. Too powerful, for the moment, for Kun to tackle.
Kun finds Gantoris, strong-willed and impatient to learn, to be a more promising first candidate. He easily seduces Gantoris in the same manner that Nadd had seduced him—by promising forbidden knowledge and the truly powerful Jedi secrets Gantoris cannot wait to learn. Carefully building up and feeding on the anger of his first apprentice, Kun grows in power. Soon he feels confident to make an attempt to subvert Luke, knowing that if he can sway the teacher, the students will all follow. Kun, posing as Anakin Skywalker, appears to Luke and attempts to pull him toward the forbidden Sith teachings by tempting him to use Sith power to seize control of the New Republic and destroy the Empire. Realizing that this shade is not that of his father, Luke rejects the offer.
Enraged and drained, Kun returns to Gantoris. Desperate for more energy, he goads Gantoris to new heights of anger by showing him the Eol Sha colonists dying on Dantooine. Gantoris is pushed too far, however, and turns on his Sith master. Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students.
Kun has just begun edging in on Streen when Kyp Durron arrives at the Jedi Academy. Kun immediately senses in the young man his ideal subject. Like Gantoris, Kyp is strong-willed and impatient to learn. Moreover, he is far more powerful than the Eol Sha leader, and young enough to be overconfident and naive.
Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power. He grows very powerful on Kyp's hate, and soon his hold on Kyp is so complete that he can send Kyp beyond the planet to do his will and still retain control over his subject. Ultimately, he has Kyp return to Yavin Four and helps him reclaim the Sun Crusher. He also bolsters Kyp's talents to allow him to defeat Luke and place him in a coma.

And:

The Jedi chased Exar Kun to his stronghold on Yavin IV and used their combined power to strike him down and annihilate his Massassi warriors. However, Exar Kun was able to escape death by using Sith sorcery to preserve his spirit in the Massassi temples.

Again:



Please provide sources for literally anything you've claimed against the aforementioned.

*Chained Vaylin Power*

~An Impressive Growth~

In KotFE we really meet Vaylin during the Chapter III when she's hunting the Outlander on Zakul. During this chase, she used TK to distabilise a pretty huge Zakul reactor. However she wasn't powerful enough to fully destroy the reactor and was only able to torn a part of the structure of the reactor.

On the following picture, you can see in green circle the debris that she moved and in the red circle the remaining of the generator.
 
Here a picture to have a referential


 As you can see, despite being huge, this display of TK isn't really impressive.

However, some months after she faced her mother on Ord Mantell. Despite the fact that Senya hold her own in lightsaber fight, she acknowledged that Vaylin could ragdoll her easily if she use her force power.

A Mother's Hope wrote:She could crush my skull in an instant, Senya realized. And I'd be powerless to stop her! 
[...]

Vaylin flicked her wrist, hurtling Senya through the air to slam against the hull of one of the broken vessels surrounding the camp. Senya crumpled to the ground, momentarily stunned
[...]
She could still kill me anytime she likes. She's been toying with me this whole time.

Valkorion wrote:Her power grows exponentially

~Vaylin vs Spirit Valkorion~

He spurs his son's bloodlust and ambition by setting him and the fleet loose on the galaxy (now that they're definitely in no state to resist the fleet's power or endanger Zakuul). He lures his new enemy into a trap and captures them. He arranges his own "death", whether by the player's hand or Arcann's, and invades the player's mind. Arcann and Vaylin do exactly what he expects, which is to generally muck up the galaxy and establish themselves as tyrants in need of overthrowing. And then he arranges and guides the player in doing just that, all the while laying the groundwork for dominating their mind at the moment of their victory and commanding a newly-reshaped galaxy as a heroic liberator - an all-new experience to try out. Too bad it didn't work out for him.

Based on this we can deduce that this spirit Valkorion is way more powerful than the version of himself that was able to do the Ziost cataclysm which include not only draining the life of countless of being (up to the point where their body were reduced to ashes) but also being able to interfere with the magnetic field of the planet [1] and the atmosphere [2].

As a result we end with:
Prime Chained Vaylin >> KotET 3 Vaylin > Spirit Valkorion >> Killing all life on Ziost + Disturbing the magnetic field of the planet + impacting the atmosphere.

[1]


[2]

~Partial Conclusion~

• We can scale Darish Vol from the Abeloth that he faced. The version that he hurted by using a particular technic nearly killed him and then when enraged was only able to destroy the capital city of the Lost Tribe. While this is a goodd feat this is way below planetary level and thus to defeat Vol Malgus will only need an amp around this level of power. As I have shown, Prime Chained Vaylin is above planetary level feat which put her cleary in another league than a city-level amped Malgus.
  
  

• As we have seen in the previous part, it is nearly impossible to scale precisely Caedus from Luke. We know that he was able to face his uncle with some advantages and disadvantages but at the end we don't have anything that allow us to put him at a planetary level force user. Therefore he cannot be put above Vaylin.
  

• While Mace performance against RotS Sidious is good, the multiple particularities of  this fight (with for example his love for the Republic and the fear to loose it) made it pretty unclear whether or not he is really on par with RotS Sidious. Because of this, like for Caedus, this isn't possible to put him clearly above a planetary feat.
  

• Starkiller showing are still good but clearly the pales in comparison to this planetary scaling, himself having no showing that put him above the city level feat. The disintegration of the Salvation or the ISD redirecting don't make him more than a city-level threat. 
  

• The only one at this stade who can claim to be still in the course is Revan if you agree with the scaling from Ant which place Revan not so far from Valkorion. But here he is already hardly challenged by Chained Vaylin.  Let's Unchained her and you will see that clearly it is impossible for Revan to still compete.
  
  
  

*A league above : Unchained Vaylin*

~A threat to Valkorion himself~

Valkorion wrote:Unchecked, Vaylin was a threat to everything I had created...[]. Her power had to be contained

SWTOR Codex: Vaylin's Conditionning wrote:Even as a child, Vaylin shiwed signs of tremendous power. Fearing she would one day challenge him, Valkorion imprisoned his daughter while he sought limits and controls on her power.

SWTOR Codex: Vaylin wrote:From the moment his daughter, Vaylin, was born, Valkorion felt her strong connection to the Force. As she grew up, the Immortal Emperor noticed similarities between them, which both pleased and frightened him, and he decided to keep a tight leash on his favorite child

Vaylin: The New Empress wrote:Vaylin is the most dangerously unhinged of Valkorion's children -and the most powerful. As a child, her strenght with the Force was so great that Valkorion locked her away in a remote compound.

~An insane gap~

•  her mother wake up from her coma on Odessen (really far from Nathema)
  
• she destroy the six energy pillars by overloading them
  
• the wave unleashed by her unchaining was felt by Lana, the Outlander and Valkorion, incapaciting them for some instant.
  

~Partial Conclusion~

*CONCLUSION*

Starkiller showing are still good but clearly the pales in comparison to this planetary scaling, himself having no showing that put him above the city level feat. The disintegration of the Salvation or the ISD redirecting don't make him more than a city-level threat.

NotAA3 wrote:How do you know draining a planet is more impressive than moving an ISD?

The New Essential Chronology wrote:Exar Kun let out a tremendous shriek that echoed across the galaxy, calling in despair upon Master Vodo, whom he had abandoned.

The Essential Guide to Characters wrote:Nadd offered Kun a way to live, and to repair his broken body: if he embraced the dark side, he would be healed. The betrayal of light was not an easy one for Kun, but the desire to live was stronger. He accepted the dark side, his screams reaching out across the galaxy and creating ripples in the Force.

Vodo Siosk-Baas, Tales of the Jedi Audio Dram CD#2 wrote:I heard the voice of my fallen student Exar Kun, crying out in evil triumph!

Exar Kun, Star Wars Databank wrote:Before Vader, before Maul, before Sidious... there was a Dark Lord of the Sith that cast a shadow of terror and destruction across the galaxy. The ancient forces of the Republic and the Jedi banded together to stop the torrent of the dark side, and bring an end to Exar Kun's rule.

Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties wrote:Seven years after the Battle of Endor, when Luke Skywalker established an academy with the intention of rebuilding the Jedi Order, the spirit of the ancient Sith Lord Exar Kun returned to prevent the Jedi Brotherhood's resurrection. Three short years later, another Sith daemon, this time the Dark Lord Marka Ragnos, also was called back from the realm of Chaos to terrorize the galaxy. This latter event was not isolated. Some of the disciples of Ragnos had formerly been aligned with the dark sider Hethrir and his Empire Reborn, which had been defeated only a short time prior. Worse, soon after the encounter with Ragnos, the lifeless body of the reformed Sith acolyte Flint was found on Belderone: an ancient Jedi lightsaber in hand, a cauterized hole through his throat.
The Force seethed with the suggestion of a grand, sinister scheme.

LadyKulvax wrote: in his prime he pretty clearly scales far beyond JA Master Luke

LadyKulvax wrote: is a lethal threat to ESB Sidious

LadyKulvax wrote:Scaling above the Ancient Threat which required the team that takes on Revan in the Temple of Sacrifice.

LadyKulvax wrote:Scaling far above the Sith spirits Thon trapped which would've consumed an entire sector, nevermind a planet

LadyKulvax wrote:There are plenty of things in my RT that compare here. You just stating that nothing does isn't an argument at all.