Rank These Characters in Potential

A spin off off of the one made by The Ellimist, this one will be more speculative. This will be a ranking of how you think these characters would rank if they achieved their full potential.

Anakin Skywalker
Luke Skywalker
Jacen Solo
Kyp Durron
Yoda
Darth Sidious
Galen Marek
Dooku
Revan
Mace Windu
Obi Wan
Vailyn
Arcann
Outlander
Cade Skywalker

Anakin Skywalker > Luke Skywalker > Galen Marek > Vaylin > Cade Skywalker > Jacen Solo > Kyp Durron > Revan > Darth Sidious > Yoda > Dooku ~ Mace Windu > Obi Wan.

Idk about:

Arcann
Outlander

Anakin > Luke > Sidious > Yoda > Outlander* > Vaylin > Mace* > Revan > Cade > Kyp > Dooku > Arcann > Obi-Wan.

Anakin would have been even stronger than Luke.
Luke for obvious reasons.
Sidious because of his sheer power growth between ROTJ and DE.
Assuming full potential includes dark side Yoda, he was believed by Dooku to be capable of annihilating Sidious. 
Outlander because his growth was insane, going from being around chained Vaylin level as of KOTET chapter 3 to being equal to or even stronger than her unchained state while not even confirmed to be at his peak yet, all in the space of a few months. 
Vaylin for obvious reason.
Mace is tricky to place. His growth in a matter of months/years made him jump from Dooku tier to a near-equal of Sidious. Perhaps he would have kept growing, perhaps not. I think he would have but there's nothing to support that, so he's no. 7 for now. 
Revan already reached his potential, and we already know how strong that was. 
Cade is hard to place but I've got him above the others because he's a Skywalker, lol.
Kyp would have been extremely powerful but I detract points for his meh saber skills.
Arcann hit his potential. 
Dooku also reached his potential, and it was immense.
Obi-Wan is pretty hard to place. If Mustafar was a lasting state of mind, he'd be just below Dooku in my mind. If not, he's behind Dooku.

Anakin>>Luke>>>Sidious>Yoda>Mace>Revan>Kenobi>Kyp>>Dooku

No clue on the rest

BreakofDawn wrote:Anakin > Luke > Sidious > Yoda > Outlander* > Vaylin > Mace* > Revan > Cade > Kyp > Dooku > Arcann > Obi-Wan.

Anakin would have been even stronger than Luke.
Luke for obvious reasons.
Sidious because of his sheer power growth between ROTJ and DE.
Assuming full potential includes dark side Yoda, he was believed by Dooku to be capable of annihilating Sidious. 
Outlander because his growth was insane, going from being around chained Vaylin level as of KOTET chapter 3 to being equal to or even stronger than her unchained state while not even confirmed to be at his peak yet, all in the space of a few months. 
Vaylin for obvious reason.
Mace is tricky to place. His growth in a matter of months/years made him jump from Dooku tier to a near-equal of Sidious. Perhaps he would have kept growing, perhaps not. I think he would have but there's nothing to support that, so he's no. 7 for now. 
Revan already reached his potential, and we already know how strong that was. 
Cade is hard to place but I've got him above the others because he's a Skywalker, lol.
Kyp would have been extremely powerful but I detract points for his meh saber skills.
Arcann hit his potential. 
Dooku also reached his potential, and it was immense.
Obi-Wan is pretty hard to place. If Mustafar was a lasting state of mind, he'd be just below Dooku in my mind. If not, he's behind Dooku.

The Count definitely has a lesser potential than Kenobi. If Kenobi in your mind is just behind Dooku then I don't really understand how you can place Dooku above him given Kenobi in ROTS is 37 and the Count 83. Dooku has half a century of growth over him, not to mention, "infinitely" greater power because of the dark side. Not to mention that he kept flirting with power throughout his life and being extremely ambitious and power hungry having completely the knowledge of the dark holocron before he even became a Sith in TPM

Kenobi has been stated to have a higher potential than Kyp by Luke himself, not to mention the fact that he can give Maul a great fight being only rage amped by TPM inspite of having infinitely lesser training by his master. It is noteworthy that inspite of him being emotional, he is still not as emotional and frantic as Maul meaning he is not even exploring the dark side to its complete extent like Maul is in that battle. Though Maul's age is slightly lesser than his age, this is counterbalanced by the fact that his training is vastly superior. Maul has access to infinitely greater amounts of information, has far more harsher training, far more focused training, far more intense training, and the exposure to the dark side for years that gives power far more quickly. Yet a mere rage amp is all it took for Kenobi to compete( he is still not as emotional and frantic as Maul meaning he is not even exploring the dark side to its complete extent like Maul is in that battle) in contrast to Maul's exposure to rage for years in battle.

If age is one of the most important parameters for potential, as it has repeatedly been shown to be, then Kenobi comes out significantly better. If it is the ancient Jedi method for testing potential like Luke did, even then Kenobi comes out significantly better.

It is worth noting that there is a case where late TCW Kenobi falls and manages to effectively amp himself by the dark side. Yoda senses this from across the galaxy and is shaken "to his core" and sends Mace, Anakin and Ahsoka to fight him. The fact that Yoda is using the second and third most powerful Jedi in the order is testament to Kenobi's potential, and this is backed up by Luke's assessment and the TPM fight.

It is also noteworthy that Obi Wan never chases power like other Jedi like Dooku. Greatness is explicitly stated to not be his ambition. If he is able to become so powerful in spite of that then it serves as even more testament to his potential

LOTL wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:Anakin > Luke > Sidious > Yoda > Outlander* > Vaylin > Mace* > Revan > Cade > Kyp > Dooku > Arcann > Obi-Wan.

Anakin would have been even stronger than Luke.
Luke for obvious reasons.
Sidious because of his sheer power growth between ROTJ and DE.
Assuming full potential includes dark side Yoda, he was believed by Dooku to be capable of annihilating Sidious. 
Outlander because his growth was insane, going from being around chained Vaylin level as of KOTET chapter 3 to being equal to or even stronger than her unchained state while not even confirmed to be at his peak yet, all in the space of a few months. 
Vaylin for obvious reason.
Mace is tricky to place. His growth in a matter of months/years made him jump from Dooku tier to a near-equal of Sidious. Perhaps he would have kept growing, perhaps not. I think he would have but there's nothing to support that, so he's no. 7 for now. 
Revan already reached his potential, and we already know how strong that was. 
Cade is hard to place but I've got him above the others because he's a Skywalker, lol.
Kyp would have been extremely powerful but I detract points for his meh saber skills.
Arcann hit his potential. 
Dooku also reached his potential, and it was immense.
Obi-Wan is pretty hard to place. If Mustafar was a lasting state of mind, he'd be just below Dooku in my mind. If not, he's behind Dooku.

The Count definitely has a lesser potential than Kenobi. If Kenobi in your mind is just behind Dooku then I don't really understand how you can place Dooku above him given Kenobi in ROTS is 37 and the Count 83. Dooku has half a century of growth over him, not to mention, "infinitely" greater power because of the dark side. Not to mention that he kept flirting with power throughout his life and being extremely ambitious and power hungry having completely the knowledge of the dark holocron before he even became a Sith in TPM

Kenobi has been stated to have a higher potential than Kyp by Luke himself, not to mention the fact that he can give Maul a great fight being only rage amped by TPM inspite of having infinitely lesser training by his master. It is noteworthy that inspite of him being emotional, he is still not as emotional and frantic as Maul meaning he is not even exploring the dark side to its complete extent like Maul is in that battle. Though Maul's age is slightly lesser than his age, this is counterbalanced by the fact that his training is vastly superior. Maul has access to infinitely greater amounts of information, has far more harsher training, far more focused training, far more intense training, and the exposure to the dark side for years that gives power far more quickly. Yet a mere rage amp is all it took for Kenobi to compete( he is still not as emotional and frantic as Maul meaning he is not even exploring the dark side to its complete extent like Maul is in that battle) in contrast to Maul's exposure to rage for years in battle.

If age is one of the most important parameters for potential, as it has repeatedly been shown to be, then Kenobi comes out significantly better. If it is the ancient Jedi method for testing potential like Luke did, even then Kenobi comes out significantly better.

It is worth noting that there is a case where late TCW Kenobi falls and manages to effectively amp himself by the dark side. Yoda senses this from across the galaxy and is shaken "to his core" and sends Mace, Anakin and Ahsoka to fight him. The fact that Yoda is using the second and third most powerful Jedi in the order is testament to Kenobi's potential, and this is backed up by Luke's assessment and the TPM fight.

It is also noteworthy that Obi Wan never chases power like other Jedi like Dooku. Greatness is explicitly stated to not be his ambition. If he is able to become so powerful in spite of that then it serves as even more testament to his potential

Im pretty sure an out of universe source says that if Dooku had stayed a jedi he would've eventually been equal with Yoda. This isn't  necessarily his ceiling either. So Dooku's ceiling is Yoda level at least with it potentially being greater. I'm not sure Kenobi's potential is that high.

I attribute Kenobi's power more to his sheer discipline and devotion to being the best Jedi he can be, as opposed to any sense of insane potential.

KingofBlades wrote:

LOTL wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:Anakin > Luke > Sidious > Yoda > Outlander* > Vaylin > Mace* > Revan > Cade > Kyp > Dooku > Arcann > Obi-Wan.

Anakin would have been even stronger than Luke.
Luke for obvious reasons.
Sidious because of his sheer power growth between ROTJ and DE.
Assuming full potential includes dark side Yoda, he was believed by Dooku to be capable of annihilating Sidious. 
Outlander because his growth was insane, going from being around chained Vaylin level as of KOTET chapter 3 to being equal to or even stronger than her unchained state while not even confirmed to be at his peak yet, all in the space of a few months. 
Vaylin for obvious reason.
Mace is tricky to place. His growth in a matter of months/years made him jump from Dooku tier to a near-equal of Sidious. Perhaps he would have kept growing, perhaps not. I think he would have but there's nothing to support that, so he's no. 7 for now. 
Revan already reached his potential, and we already know how strong that was. 
Cade is hard to place but I've got him above the others because he's a Skywalker, lol.
Kyp would have been extremely powerful but I detract points for his meh saber skills.
Arcann hit his potential. 
Dooku also reached his potential, and it was immense.
Obi-Wan is pretty hard to place. If Mustafar was a lasting state of mind, he'd be just below Dooku in my mind. If not, he's behind Dooku.

The Count definitely has a lesser potential than Kenobi. If Kenobi in your mind is just behind Dooku then I don't really understand how you can place Dooku above him given Kenobi in ROTS is 37 and the Count 83. Dooku has half a century of growth over him, not to mention, "infinitely" greater power because of the dark side. Not to mention that he kept flirting with power throughout his life and being extremely ambitious and power hungry having completely the knowledge of the dark holocron before he even became a Sith in TPM

Kenobi has been stated to have a higher potential than Kyp by Luke himself, not to mention the fact that he can give Maul a great fight being only rage amped by TPM inspite of having infinitely lesser training by his master. It is noteworthy that inspite of him being emotional, he is still not as emotional and frantic as Maul meaning he is not even exploring the dark side to its complete extent like Maul is in that battle. Though Maul's age is slightly lesser than his age, this is counterbalanced by the fact that his training is vastly superior. Maul has access to infinitely greater amounts of information, has far more harsher training, far more focused training, far more intense training, and the exposure to the dark side for years that gives power far more quickly. Yet a mere rage amp is all it took for Kenobi to compete( he is still not as emotional and frantic as Maul meaning he is not even exploring the dark side to its complete extent like Maul is in that battle) in contrast to Maul's exposure to rage for years in battle.

If age is one of the most important parameters for potential, as it has repeatedly been shown to be, then Kenobi comes out significantly better. If it is the ancient Jedi method for testing potential like Luke did, even then Kenobi comes out significantly better.

It is worth noting that there is a case where late TCW Kenobi falls and manages to effectively amp himself by the dark side. Yoda senses this from across the galaxy and is shaken "to his core" and sends Mace, Anakin and Ahsoka to fight him. The fact that Yoda is using the second and third most powerful Jedi in the order is testament to Kenobi's potential, and this is backed up by Luke's assessment and the TPM fight.

It is also noteworthy that Obi Wan never chases power like other Jedi like Dooku. Greatness is explicitly stated to not be his ambition. If he is able to become so powerful in spite of that then it serves as even more testament to his potential

Im pretty sure an out of universe source says that if Dooku had stayed a jedi he would've eventually been equal with Yoda. This isn't  necessarily his ceiling either. So Dooku's ceiling is Yoda level at least with it potentially being greater. I'm not sure Kenobi's potential is that high.

It says he would have been as great as Yoda not equally powerful.

 We know that greatness is not dependent on strength in the force only. 

Even if hypothetical statements placing him on par with Yoda in his prime were found, it doesn't mean he has Yoda's potential, it simply means he will be as powerful as ROTS Yoda and that is a level that Kenobi can definitely reach. Yoda has the highest potential in the Jedi Order before Anakin by TPM

Meatpants wrote:I attribute Kenobi's power more to his sheer discipline and devotion to being the best Jedi he can be, as opposed to any sense of insane potential.

Perhaps read my assessment? 

The fact that he is not power hungry is even bigger of an indicator of his potential. If he can increase his growth so much in spite of not personally looking to better himself then it obviously is an indicator of insane potential. 

I feel people just go by gut feeling and selective text in this matter. The fact that not every source is singing praises for his power doesn't mean it is not insane or that he is not talented. It just means that narratively, he serves a greater purpose than just being powerful or having higher potential. It is the same case for Mace

Kyp is being severely underestimated here

Meatpants wrote:I attribute Kenobi's power more to his sheer discipline and devotion to being the best Jedi he can be, as opposed to any sense of insane potential.

Exactly

Full potential in what sense? Midi-chlorians define a biological cap but several characters like Sidious, Plagueis, Valkorion, Outlander, etc. have transcended that. Technically anyone could have infinite potential if given the proper means.

Anakin Skywalker
Luke Skywalker
Jacen Solo
Kyp Durron
Cade Skywalker
Galen Marek
Darth Sidious
Yoda / Vaylin
Mace Windu / Outlander
Revan / Obi Wan
Dooku
Arcann

Anakin>Luke>Jacen>Cade>Sheev>Galen>Yoda>Mace>Revan~Dooku>Kenobi. Have to think more about where to rank the Eternal Fam and Outlander.

Azronger wrote:Full potential in what sense? Midi-chlorians define a biological cap but several characters like Sidious, Plagueis, Valkorion, Outlander, etc. have transcended that. Technically anyone could have infinite potential if given the proper means.

Biological potential for most characters. Though if a character knows techniques that will allow them to transcend this then I guess put an asterisk by their name as a way of showing they can go higher through exploitation of said technique.

Why are the Outlander and Vaylin below Jacen on quite a few people’s lists? The Outlander’s potential, whether you believe it was enhanced by Valkorion or not, put him on a higher pedestal than Jacen, and that probably won’t even be his peak. Vaylin needs no explanation.

I think the Outlander should probably be somewhere near the top given that Valkorion forged them to potentially harness the power of his spirit + Vaylin's + Arcann's.

Anankin
luke
jacen
cade
galen
windu
kyp
sidious
yoda
obi wan
dooku
revan
vaylin
arcann

Praxis wrote:I think the Outlander should probably be somewhere near the top given that Valkorion forged them to potentially harness the power of his spirit + Vaylin's + Arcann's.

I mean, Valkorion was probably lying about the amp. Seems more the training that allowed the Outlander to keep growing to Vaylin+ tier. 

Anyway, just to fix my list:

Anakin > Luke > Sidious ~ Yoda > Mace > Outlander* > Vaylin  > Revan > Arcann > Cade > Kyp > Dooku >  Obi-Wan.

Taking Dooku's beliefs as being a credible source, Yoda would have been capable of annihilating ROTS Sidious, who would probably be stomped by DE Sheev. Because of that, I'll say the two had around the same potential considering the nature of their ROTS parity and the aforementioned reasoning.

Switched Mace and the Outlander around due to Mace's growth in mere months from a Dooku level combatant to a solid tier 9/peer of Sidious and Yoda, which I find more impressive than the Outlander's (might change if the Outlander gets more impressive feats soon). 

Also switched Arcann and Cade after reviewing Arcann's abilities and his apparent growth from being sub-chained Vaylin in KOTFE to fighting evenly with her by KOTET.

1. Anakin Skywalker
2. Galen Marek
3. Luke Skywalker
4. Darth Sidious ~ Cade Skywalker ~ Vaylin
5. Yoda ~ Outlander
6. Revan
7. Jacen Solo
8. Kyp Durron
9. Obi Wan
10. Mace Windu
11. Dooku ~ Arcann

Anakin is obvious. Galen was intended to be possibly "the most powerful Force user ever" which includes Luke. Cade and Vaylin are both prodigies with a natural, instinctive talent and immense Force power, and have grown far beyond their peers/seniors in a much shorter time period with much fewer resources. Both are potentially above Krayt/Valk respectively so I can barely imagine what they could turn into. I rank them alongside Sheev as his power is completely bewildering even among top tiers and is basically the Star Wars antichrist. Yoda level seems pretty good for the Outlander, he's very much a natural prodigy but just doesn't strike me as being the same kind of "freak" as those above him who achieved as much as he did with less time and resources. Yoda himself could have been much stronger if he used the dark side and was past his prime in RotS hence why he is so high on my list.

Revan is an absolute freak of nature which we can plainly see. Jacen's power and natural aptitude while not freakish on the level of Sidious was still very good and I believe nascent at the time of his death. Enough to say he's above Kyp, who while Jedi Academy Luke (IIRC) said he could one day be stronger than him, I don't take that to mean he has higher potential than Luke period - and I think the way he turned out after many decades reflects as much. Still, he has a lot of untapped potential by my reckoning.

Obi-Wan's feats around the end of RotS are reflective of him just beginning to tap into something quite immense, and we saw a glimpse of it when he nearly tore himself apart at the atom level sprinting. Were he to crave higher power and continue training, I think he would have been a force to be reckoned with for sure. Mace is not too dissimilar to Kenobi, but I think he was nearing his upper limit when he fought Sheev, so that's why he's lower.

Dooku was basically at his potential in RotS, give or take a few grey hairs. Arcann capping out at Dooku level seems reasonable for someone who has had many intense decades of war and training to get to where he is (which currently I would argue is firmly below Dooku).

ILS wrote:1. Anakin Skywalker
2. Galen Marek
3. Luke Skywalker
4. Darth Sidious ~ Cade Skywalker ~ Vaylin
5. Yoda ~ Outlander
6. Revan
7. Jacen Solo
8. Kyp Durron
9. Obi Wan
10. Mace Windu
11. Dooku ~ Arcann

Anakin is obvious. Galen was intended to be possibly "the most powerful Force user ever" which includes Luke. Cade and Vaylin are both prodigies with a natural, instinctive talent and immense Force power, and have grown far beyond their peers/seniors in a much shorter time period with much fewer resources. Both are potentially above Krayt/Valk respectively so I can barely imagine what they could turn into. I rank them alongside Sheev as his power is completely bewildering even among top tiers and is basically the Star Wars antichrist. Yoda level seems pretty good for the Outlander, he's very much a natural prodigy but just doesn't strike me as being the same kind of "freak" as those above him who achieved as much as he did with less time and resources. Yoda himself could have been much stronger if he used the dark side and was past his prime in RotS hence why he is so high on my list.

Revan is an absolute freak of nature which we can plainly see. Jacen's power and natural aptitude while not freakish on the level of Sidious was still very good and I believe nascent at the time of his death. Enough to say he's above Kyp, who while Jedi Academy Luke (IIRC) said he could one day be stronger than him, I don't take that to mean he has higher potential than Luke period - and I think the way he turned out after many decades reflects as much. Still, he has a lot of untapped potential by my reckoning.

Obi-Wan's feats around the end of RotS are reflective of him just beginning to tap into something quite immense, and we saw a glimpse of it when he nearly tore himself apart at the atom level sprinting. Were he to crave higher power and continue training, I think he would have been a force to be reckoned with for sure. Mace is not too dissimilar to Kenobi, but I think he was nearing his upper limit when he fought Sheev, so that's why he's lower.

Dooku was basically at his potential in RotS, give or take a few grey hairs. Arcann capping out at Dooku level seems reasonable for someone who has had many intense decades of war and training to get to where he is (which currently I would argue is firmly below Dooku).

Nice list. I would put Mace slightly higher than Kenobi but then you have the "Kenobi not looking to become more powerful" factor that makes it more difficult.

More interesting is the Sidious and Revan ranking. Sidious is 65 in his battle. Mace is 53. They probably have had the same amount of time to train so considering that they are close enough in the movie, isn't it plausible that Mace's potential is not that much lesser than Sidious's potential than shown here? Especially since Sidious being a Sith is going to move quickly, more than Mace in that sense, given Jedi morals and the lack of ambition?

Tbh, age is on the side of Kenobi and Mace. Kenobi is like 37/38 in the movie, Mace is 53 so they should have considerable chunks of their potential left to achieve, especially in case you take the Count as an example

WalkingInCircles wrote:
I mean, Valkorion was probably lying about the amp. Seems more the training that allowed the Outlander to keep growing to Vaylin+ tier. 

What makes you think he was lying?

Praxis wrote:

WalkingInCircles wrote:
I mean, Valkorion was probably lying about the amp. Seems more the training that allowed the Outlander to keep growing to Vaylin+ tier. 

What makes you think he was lying?

Will go in-depth later but as a brief thing:

1. He lied about leaving.
2. He's been shown to be able to easily deceive Satele and Marr, with even their combined senses barely being able to detect him. Her claim that Valk was responsible is therefore kinda suspect.
3. When we see fragments of his memory in KOTET, one of them suggests that the entire thing was a giant charade conducted as an experiment with no help from him:

"I pretended to abandon you on Odessen, but my departure was a ruse. Trapped in your mind, I silently observed how you behaved in my absence. Your strength grew. Your vulnerabilities festered."


Valk treats the whole thing like a "gotcha" moment. He talks as though he actually had no involvement and was actually just curious about what would happen if he pretended to leave and provided no help whatsoever. Plus, there's the fact that the Outlander keeps growing and doesn't just have one jump in power, which seems a bit weird.

4. It's the new training he undergoes that seems to be the main catalyst for the Outlander's growth in power, which is alluded to several times.
5. Prior to this, Valk makes numerous references to the Outlander's static nature, whereby he can't "reach (his) full potential" or "become something greater" until he adopts the new lessons Satele and Marr give him to unlock his growth.

LOTL wrote:

ILS wrote:1. Anakin Skywalker
2. Galen Marek
3. Luke Skywalker
4. Darth Sidious ~ Cade Skywalker ~ Vaylin
5. Yoda ~ Outlander
6. Revan
7. Jacen Solo
8. Kyp Durron
9. Obi Wan
10. Mace Windu
11. Dooku ~ Arcann

Anakin is obvious. Galen was intended to be possibly "the most powerful Force user ever" which includes Luke. Cade and Vaylin are both prodigies with a natural, instinctive talent and immense Force power, and have grown far beyond their peers/seniors in a much shorter time period with much fewer resources. Both are potentially above Krayt/Valk respectively so I can barely imagine what they could turn into. I rank them alongside Sheev as his power is completely bewildering even among top tiers and is basically the Star Wars antichrist. Yoda level seems pretty good for the Outlander, he's very much a natural prodigy but just doesn't strike me as being the same kind of "freak" as those above him who achieved as much as he did with less time and resources. Yoda himself could have been much stronger if he used the dark side and was past his prime in RotS hence why he is so high on my list.

Revan is an absolute freak of nature which we can plainly see. Jacen's power and natural aptitude while not freakish on the level of Sidious was still very good and I believe nascent at the time of his death. Enough to say he's above Kyp, who while Jedi Academy Luke (IIRC) said he could one day be stronger than him, I don't take that to mean he has higher potential than Luke period - and I think the way he turned out after many decades reflects as much. Still, he has a lot of untapped potential by my reckoning.

Obi-Wan's feats around the end of RotS are reflective of him just beginning to tap into something quite immense, and we saw a glimpse of it when he nearly tore himself apart at the atom level sprinting. Were he to crave higher power and continue training, I think he would have been a force to be reckoned with for sure. Mace is not too dissimilar to Kenobi, but I think he was nearing his upper limit when he fought Sheev, so that's why he's lower.

Dooku was basically at his potential in RotS, give or take a few grey hairs. Arcann capping out at Dooku level seems reasonable for someone who has had many intense decades of war and training to get to where he is (which currently I would argue is firmly below Dooku).

Nice list. I would put Mace slightly higher than Kenobi but then you have the "Kenobi not looking to become more powerful" factor that makes it more difficult.

More interesting is the Sidious and Revan ranking. Sidious is 65 in his battle. Mace is 53. They probably have had the same amount of time to train so considering that they are close enough in the movie, isn't it plausible that Mace's potential is not that much lesser than Sidious's potential than shown here? Especially since Sidious being a Sith is going to move quickly, more than Mace in that sense, given Jedi morals and the lack of ambition?

Tbh, age is on the side of Kenobi and Mace. Kenobi is like 37/38 in the movie, Mace is 53 so they should have considerable chunks of their potential left to achieve, especially in case you take the Count as an example

In terms of the mindset/philosophy Force users have, I order them in the following way in terms of how powerful they are, all things equal:

1. Positive emotion
2. Negative emotion
3. Detachment from emotion
4. Conflicted emotion

My evidence for this is that the best feats/displays from characters, mostly Jedi, tend to be when they draw on strong sources of love - look at Vader, Luke, Cade, etc. For negative emotion, that's the dark side - Dark Yoda > Jedi Yoda, Dark Dooku > Jedi Dooku, etc. Mace using Vaapad is like having his cake and eating it - he goes through the "penumbra" of the dark side and lets himself be a vessel for negative emotions without being attached to or corrupted by them.

Kenobi, quite amazingly, went from the conflicted stage to the detached stage during his fight with Mustafar Vader. As you proved in your blog, he "let go" of all of his baggage... I think Mace had a more powerful mental state/philosophy to draw from than Kenobi so when I say Kenobi has more potential than him, I factor that in. It's also part of why I think Luke grew beyond Kenobi and Yoda - instead of just being detached from emotion and connection, he made positive attachments and connections with emotions and other people, which is more powerful. All of this ties into buddhist philosophy - a core tenet of buddhism is compassion, but the PT Jedi despite being based on buddhist monks, only got the detachment part right - they neglected compassion as a source of energy.

So yeah, Kenobi being younger than Mace with less raw fuel driving him, was basically knocking on his door. I bet if Kenobi had the opportunity to train alongside the NJO he might have gotten much more powerful.

I guess Mace could have much more potential than we know, but from my reading in RotS, his mastery of Vaapad was pretty much at it's limits against Sheev. Sheev's lightning is "beyond" Vaapad as it says.

a lot of people make good points. some of these characters are said to have yoda lvl potential (kyp, dooku, and obi wan, if im correct), while some people are above (mace and sheev are pretty similar, imo), while people like galen and jacen are pretty even, with luke slightly above them, imo. anakin is obvious. revan is below arcann, and arcann below vaylin, but idk how they compare to the rest. prolly on the yoda lvl, maybe even higher, since they were so young, yet so strong.