Re: Exar Kun Supreme Respect Thread (NEW UPDATE 8/28/2022)

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

I'm sorry, we don't have a special needs version.

[lelandp23]

no need to get your panties in a bunch sorry i attacked your life's achievement

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

When you produce anything of substance on here remotely close to this, perhaps anything you say may bare relevance. But thankfully, anyone with decent levels of comprehension are able to understand this just fine.

[lelandp23]

all it takes is a lil research and boom you got a thread of sludge i dont need to prove anything to you just un-tighten you panties will ya

[VictreebelVictr]

I think it is a mighty fine RT AP.

[Vaelias]

I think it is a mighty fine RT AP.

Agreed,

lelandp23 is a cretin

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

Added the following:

Exar Kun through sheer willpower returned from Chaos to prevent the resurrection of the Jedi Order on Yavin IV:

Seven years after the Battle of Endor, when Luke Skywalker established an academy with the intention of rebuilding the Jedi Order, the spirit of the ancient Sith Lord Exar Kun returned to prevent the Jedi Brotherhood's resurrection. Three short years later, another Sith daemon, this time the Dark Lord Marka Ragnos, also was called back from the realm of Chaos to terrorize the galaxy.

Exar Kun had been finally defeated by a group of spacers during the Rebellion era:

Hidden below the Temple of Exar Kun on Yavin 4 lays the tomb of this legendary Sith Lord. Exar Kun's spirit is so strong and malevolence so great, that he has withstood death for 4,000 years, waiting for an opportunity to finally obtain the godhood he so desires. A group of archeologists excavating nearby have discovered the tomb's crumbled antechamber, and as they explored deeper, have succumbed to Exar Kun's powerful will. Players must eliminate each of the now twisted but powerful archeologists on their way to finally put the spirit of Exar Kun to rest.

Only one dark-sider has been confirmed to be able to do so of his own volition, that's Darth Sidious:

Palpatine's body was destroyed. Separated from his clones, Palpatine was forced to survive in the maddening, bodiless existence of the void. Through sheer will he retained his identity, crossing the gulf of space to again take up residence in his clone body.

[Vaelias]

you could add this one along with the willpower Chaos feat

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

Added the following:

Dan Thorsland was the direct liaison between Dark Horse and Lucasfilm when it came to what was canonical:


Sith Lord Ulic Qel-Droma when faced with Masters Vodo and Thon, as well as Jedi Knights Nomi Sunrider, Cay Qel-Droma, Sylvar, Tott Doneeta and more, could only be stopped by their combined power:



Beskar'gam was extremely tough to deal with, even for a Jedi Master such as Mace Windu:

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

Jedi Exile Meetra Surik does not believe that the power of Darth Nihilus is possible:

“I don’t understand how he hasn’t conquered the galaxy with that kind of power.”

“Power? Do you think so? You would be wrong. There is no strength in the hunger he possesses... and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others - his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead; it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls."

“That kind of power is impossible.”

“Nothing is impossible with the Force. It is an energy that flows through all living things.”

"To kill on such a scale... it's impossible."

The script confirms that Darth Nihilus is even more powerful in reality than the Exile was told to believe:

Nihilus turns, raises his hand, and the entire party is raised into the air, similar to Force Crush. He speaks, his voice roaring, and the player should realize that Nihilus is far more powerful than they had believed.

This was a starving Darth Nihilus to boot:

"If there are no Jedi here, then my Lord cannot feed his hunger. He will destroy the planet, the station, he will cleanse it of life. Even if the people below are not Force Sensitive, the small amount he can feed on from the mass destruction of the station, and the life of the planet, will sustain him a while longer."

Yet it is stated he was only beginning to rival 'some of' the ancient Sith:

“The blind seer, her master harnessed this technique and he is rapidly approaching the height of its power. I fear he may even rival some of the ancient Sith."

Chris Avellone confirms this is a direct raw power comparison:



This is supported by the fact that the remnant life energies of Ludo Kressh's corpse are far more powerful than the Jedi Exile just prior to Darth Nihilus's death:

Buried under a mountain of rock at the back of the Shyrack Cave, this ancient tomb conceals a great evil power. Ludo Kressh, Sith Lord, is buried here, and his life force still haunts the halls and passages.

Malak and his companions aren't real; they are phantoms generated by the intense dark-side power concentrated in this tomb.

You don't stand a chance against the overwhelming power...

Freedon Nadd returns due to the efforts of Darth Nihilus:

"The Sith said soon we'll have reinforcements. When I asked for details he said it was a "surprise". I hate the ones with a sense of humor, Sith jokes are rarely pleasant."

"You are too late, we have done what needed to be done. Soon Onderon shall fall and the Republic with it."

In fact, the lost Jedi have to kill these Sith to prevent them from gaining Freedon Nadd's power:



Indeed, the tomb was the source of the growing power of the dark side of the Force in the galaxy because of this:



What Freedon Nadd did after this is a mystery, but we do have an idea of how powerful he was. Visas Marr, who is bonded to Darth Nihilus and thus has a uniquely accurate measure of his power, is amazed by the power of the tomb:

"I can taste the power of the dark side here. Freedon Nadd must have been truly great to leave such an impact. The echoes of his life are still here."

Indeed, this is what is believed of his power in general:

“Freedon Nadd was a dark Jedi, he conquered Onderon long ago and became their king. The royal line is directly descended from him. The stories say that he was far worse than Revan and Malak ever were. This place is tainted and the Sith presence here makes the danger great."

Exactly what would people in-universe at this point in time believe about Freedon Nadd? Luckily, we have a few ideas:



So he's known for killing more Jedi than anyone else before him and far more importantly, per a KOTOR2 primer:

The inhabitants of Iziz, a walled city on Onderon under constant attack by beasts from the jungles surrounding the settlement, were awed by Nadd's display of sorcery, and swayed by his mastery of the Dark Side. In the decades that followed, Nadd helped his subjects develop destructive technology to nullify the monsters from the outside, and any rebels from within. Nadd's policies included banishment for criminals, some of whom survived in the jungles and banded together,

Note: Given the above is what is well-known among the populace of Iziz, somehow I think the awe-inspiring sorcery and the mastery of the dark side, swaying the entire population, left more of a mark than banishing criminals. Literally the only thing he was well-known to have done that was specifically evil. Compared to Malak orbitally bombarding numerous planets and cities such as Telos IV and Taris.

Yet Kreia deems this to be an underestimation upon sensing the legacy of his power in the tomb:

"Freedon Nadd's power seems to have been underestimated, his legacy lives on in the very stones of his resting place."

Given all of this, the ancient Sith such as Ludo Kressh; by extension Naga Sadow, and Freedon Nadd, are both more powerful than Darth Nihilus. Freedon Nadd's known superiority over Naga Sadow is repeated in KOTOR 2, which states he 'destroyed' him:



Freedon Nadd being surpassed by Exar Kun, is also within the scope of KOTOR 2 via its primer, COTOR:

Nadd's specter appears one final time to claim Kun as his own, but Kun embraces the power of the dark side for himself, and eradicates Nadd for ever. Exar Kun proclaims himself the new Dark Lord of the Sith, enslaves the Massassi into building structures focused in dark force energy, and locates the buried battleship of Naga Sadow. Exar Kun's power is in the ascendance.

So, the crux of this is that the Jedi Exile is aware of both Revan's power as of prior to the battle of Malachor V; though not his dark side corruption, and the power of an apparition of Darth Revan:



This may seem confusing at first, why would Revan's ghost appear in the tomb of Ludo Kressh? Well, the answer is complicated. As far as KOTOR 2 media concerns itself, this was setting up KOTOR 3 where you would eventually see Revan again in that game:

Speaking to VG247, Avellone said the dev team always imagined the series as a trilogy, and started "working on the third game pitch" after the release of KOTOR 2. The plan was for the player to follow the trail of Darth Revan across the galaxy and battle ancient Sith Lords, "who are far more terrifying than the Darths that show up". As well as fighting these powerful enemies, you'd be able to uncover their origin stories, he said.

“The third game involved you, as a player character, following where Revan went and then taking the battle to the really ancient Sith lords who are far more terrifying than the Darths that show up. These guys would just be monsters. These would have a level of power that was considerable, but at the same time you’d be able to dig more into their psychologies, and their personalities, their history, and even how they dealt with the player, how they talk with the player, the different powers they cultivated and developed, and for some of them like – they’re the ancients, so they’re not just ruling a solar system, [but] swathes of the galaxy."

Naturally that didn't happen, but this did remain a plot point in Bioware's revised take on the character:

"When the Emperor's followers struck me down, I learned to release my attachments."

"Then who's wearing your mask and leading your followers?"

"I - I do not know. But I recognize much of myself in him. The darkness I left behind."

"You hid behind Jedi platitudes! You weren't strong enough to survive the torture, or the battle in the Foundry. I faced them! I survived them!"

"You've carried on, dragging the remains of a body that should have long since faded to dust . . . When I died, I had come to terms. I was ready to become one with the Force. But I soon realized that was only what part of me wanted."

"I cast you out! It was the only way to go on - to remain and finish what we started! You were holding me back!"

But this is not about Bioware's later revisement, so let's stay on track. It's possible that the rewriting of Revan's mind caused him to lose his identity and thus the majority of the original part of him became a spiritual entity. But this is all conjecture. What is not conjecture is that this is confirmed to be an apparition of Darth Revan. But not one at his full strength due to spiritual limits. About that:

"Having survived the destruction of the second Death Star as a ghostly manifestation, I can assure you that it is a most wearisome state to be in. It is not enough to retain one’s powers beyond death, for a noncorporeal avatar can only do so much."

All of which is really moot, all that matters regardless of explanation is that the Jedi Exile does have some measure of Darth Revan's power before the script states that Darth Nihilus is far more powerful than the game leads the character/player to believe, which is beyond the estimations of his 'impossible' power. Coupled with Kreia's claims regarding Freedon Nadd, this shows a clear narrative within Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords which depicts the likes of Naga Sadow and Ludo Kressh, as beyond the power of Darth Nihilus. Who is far more powerful than the estimations of him made by Jedi Exile Meetra Surik regarding his power and the scope of his power, both of which was already deemed by her to be 'impossible'.

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

Massively reformatted and updated the thread, added eight new quotes and scans.

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

Completely revamped the whole thread, enjoy.

[Palpatine Palpatine]

Nice RT.

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

Thanks!

[lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three]

Completely revamped the whole thread, enjoy.

Anything new? Wanna know so I don't have to read it all over again

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

Completely revamped the whole thread, enjoy.

Anything new? Wanna know so I don't have to read it all over again

Roughly 30 or so quotes

[Freedon Nadd]

Exar Kun was able to influence the fabric of the Old Republic with his power: Vodo Siosk-Baas, Jedi Academy Vol.2: Dark Apprentice wrote:
"Exar Kun worked his invisible threads into the fabric of the Old Republic, bringing downfall through treachery and his distorted abilities with the Force."

Exar Kun seems to perform a similar display of power by Sidious and Plagueis in the Darth Plagueis novel when they created a massive dark side nexus which resulted in imbalancing The Force..

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

The thread has been updated, mainly the effects on Yavin IV.

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

Almost a completely new thread, enjoy.

[FreedonNadd]

1. If I recall correctly in TOTJ last issue with Exar Kun; the Jedi bound Kun's spirit by the Yavin temples. He did not reach into Chaos realm.

2. The Sith Lords Kreia talk as MIGHT being more powerful than Nihilus are never present in pre/post KotOR 2. They were supposed to be new and original characters.

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

1. If I recall correctly in TOTJ last issue with Exar Kun; the Jedi bound Kun's spirit by the Yavin temples. He did not reach into Chaos realm.

2. The Sith Lords Kreia talk as MIGHT being more powerful than Nihilus are never present in pre/post KotOR 2. They were supposed to be new and original characters.

1.This was retconned in 2006 by Evil Never Dies and reconciled in 2011 when Exar Kun came back to life in Star Wars Galaxies Chapter 9: The Fury of Exar Kun.

2.The alluded to true Sith Empire is referenced in later pre-TOR source material.

[Freedon Nadd]

1. If I recall correctly in TOTJ last issue with Exar Kun; the Jedi bound Kun's spirit by the Yavin temples. He did not reach into Chaos realm.

2. The Sith Lords Kreia talk as MIGHT being more powerful than Nihilus are never present in pre/post KotOR 2. They were supposed to be new and original characters.

1.This was retconned in 2006 by Evil Never Dies and reconciled in 2011 when Exar Kun came back to life in Star Wars Galaxies Chapter 9: The Fury of Exar Kun.

2.The alluded to true Sith Empire is referenced in later pre-TOR source material.

1. Doesn't seem the writer of that article had any knowledge on Exar Kun. It was more like an interpretation.

2. The Sith Kreia refered as True Sith were also the ones Kreia said that Nihilus might rival. They have nothing to do with already existing characters.

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

Added dozens of scans and the resurrected (GCW) Exar Kun section.

[AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four]

I've revised a lot and fixed a lot, 15 new quotes. Enjoy.

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