Exar Kun runs a PT gauntlet

NotAA3 wrote:Gauntlet is out of order. Regardless I'll say he stops at 5.

Insider 113 wrote:On Had Abbadon, in the Deep Core, Krayt confronted Skywalker a second time. But a third Force-user possessed powers that outshone them both. Karness Muur, an ancient Sith spirit, blasted Krayt with overpowering energy, sending him over a cliff to the rocks below.

Azronger wrote:

I. COUNT DOOKU VS OBI-WAN KENOBI

In the last days of the Clone Wars, Count Dooku dueled Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi for the final time. While Kenobi was telekinetically removed mid-duel and it was left to Skywalker to finish the job, the former instance is often misjudged as proof of a ragdoll-tier gap between Kenobi and Lord Tyranus. The Revenge of the Sith junior novel explains that in lieu of having his Force defenses simply overpowered, Kenobi failed to erect them in the first place (link). One obviously cannot claim X is freely capable of penetrating the active barrier of Y and tossing them around (aka ragdolling) if Y only ever had a passive barrier up.

In contrast, the Revenge of the Sith novelization has Kenobi moving “straight upward over Dooku’s head so fast it seemed he’d vanished”; his “blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike”; and parrying “every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper” (link). If X could incapacitate Y with a snap of their fingers, they wouldn’t be so utterly flabbergasted, almost overwhelmed, and have all their attacks neutralized by Y’s swordplay; lightsaber prowess and Force ability are inextricably linked together. The evidence is more in favor of Kenobi being on the Count’s level than five tiers beneath.

II. OBI-WAN KENOBI VS A’SHARAD HETT

Two years after the Clone Wars, Ben Kenobi discovers another Order 66 survivor, the disgruntled Jedi A’Sharad Hett. Hett had disavowed the Jedi way and taken up the mantle of a Tusken warlord pillaging across Tatooine, and so him and Kenobi naturally come to blows (link). While the comic could potentially be interpreted disfavorably towards Hett in a vacuum, the novelization clarifies several key points.

A) OBI-WAN’S POWER LEVEL

The text notes that while Kenobi hadn’t fought with a lightsaber in a while, “he had continued his Jedi exercises on Tatooine,” nonetheless, and “had not allowed his reflexes to become dull.” Simply put, he hadn’t declined, and was on the same level as he had been in Revenge of the Sith.

B) OBI-WAN’S EFFORT

Ben required absolute focus while fighting Hett, and any distracting thoughts “would probably only get him killed.” Hett also scored several unarmed strikes in Kenobi, and the ones Ben did block, “he wasn't doing so with ease.” As to the sometimes-tossed-around notion that Ben won as he soon as reminded himself he was fighting for Luke, warriors’ motivations circulate around their brain constantly. Just because he happened to think of Luke at that particular instant doesn't mean he wasn't serious prior. The text even notes it was “fortunate” Ben wasn’t out of practice, indicating that someone noticeably beneath RotS Kenobi’s level would have lost to Hett; had he been toying with Hett and capable of stomping him, him retaining his former prowess would have been completely irrelevant rather than “fortunate.” Kenobi was giving this duel his all, and that’s that.

C) A’SHARAD’S ARM

Some readers of the comic have interpreted the blue flash around Kenobi’s arm showing him telekinetically ripping off Hett’s limb, and thus have argued he was massively more powerful in the Force. But the novelization clarifies Ben merely pushed Hett backwards with telekinesis, and took his arm with a swipe of his blade. There is no great disparity in Force strength shown here.

D) THE TERRAIN

While the text notes Hett was more experienced fighting on sand, this is hardly a factor. Firstly, let us make clear that it only gave Hett an advantage, and did not give Kenobi any disadvantage, as inferior fighters like Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul weren't bothered by the desert environment at all (link). Secondly, we are talking about Force users here: something as trivial as sand beneath their boots isn't going to boost their precognition, augmentation, reflexes or clarity of mind - far more pertinent factors in a lightsaber duel than simple technique or raw skill. The fact that Hett had more experience fighting on a desert doesn't take away from the fact that Kenobi didn't ragdoll, speedblitz or do anything to Hett that would indicate he could stomp. It would be a hard-fought battle in any environment.

In the end, I don’t see any reason not to mark Hett a rival of Kenobi’s here. The latter was noted to have retained his skills from his days in the Clone Wars, of which he required every ounce to stay alive and triumph over Hett, with the terrain being only a negligent advantage for the latter.

III. A’SHARAD HETT VS DARTH KRAYT

A) SITH APPRENTICE

After his loss at Kenobi’s hands, Hett’s Tusken tribe abandons him. Now stripped of both the duties of the Jedi and his familial heritage, Hett becomes a bounty hunter. Shortly after, he takes a mission to Korriban, where he finds the holocron of XoXaan, from whom he learns the dark side. His mind now set on taking revenge on Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine, Hett gives himself to Sith teachings until sometime after the Battle of Endor. During this time, “he gained a great deal of strength in the Force,” which is putting it lightly; after all, we are talking about a dude who gave himself over to his hatred of those who destroyed his life, immersing himself in the dark side, with the lore of Korriban to draw upon, for at least two decades (link) - he could already match peak Obi-Wan Kenobi in just three.

B) VONG EXPERIMENT

After his training is complete, Hett emerges ready to take down those who took everything from him, but finds the galaxy already free of Sith rule. Lost and aimless, Hett wanders into the Unknown Regions where he encounters the Yuuzhan Vong, who take him prisoner. Experiencing the Embrace of Pain, Hett opens himself to the dark side utterly, annihilating his captors and traveling to Korriban again, where he formally names himself Darth Krayt. Prior to his ordeal, Hett “had only been pretending to be a Sith” compared to what he became after: “XoXaan opened the Dragon’s eyes, but he could still not see the power within the darkness until he met the Yuuzhan Vong.” In short, it was at the hands of the Vong that “A'Sharad Hett died” and “Darth Krayt was born.” (link)

C) SITH EMPEROR

While the coral seeds implanted by the Yuuzhan Vong drained his Force power over time, Darth Krayt as of Legacy should still be superior to himself just after escaping the captivity of the Vong as he had “perfected his combat techniques over many decades,” indicating an improvement over his post-Vong self. He had also “honed his skills in the Clone Wars and killed thousands of opponents since then,” clearly referring to a time after his transformation into Krayt as he did not slay anyone during his tutelage under XoXaan and only killed a single ship worth of Vong soldiers following his torture (link). He additionally accumulated an insane reservoir of dark side knowledge: his servant Darth Wyyrlok III was “one of the greatest scholars of the Jedi, Sith, and other Force-using traditions in the galaxy,” having “access to books, scrolls, holocrons, and computer records from across the eons, which he has collected in the hopes of gaining a deeper understanding of the Force”; in total, “his knowledge of Sith lore, rituals, and history was rivaled only by that of Krayt himself,” in addition to Krayt's holocron containing “many secrets and bits of lore known only to Darth Krayt himself.” Note that Force knowledge doesn't just increase the amount of abilities one can wield; it adds to one's overall power as seen in the cases of the Banite Sith, Yoda, and A'Sharad Hett himself (link).

All in all, it's reasonable to assert Krayt is weaker during Legacy than he was during Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse, but nothing indicates the coral seeds would offset literally 110 years of power growth, especially when he often replenished himself in a healing trance when his strength ebbed. It would be even more asinine to think Emperor Krayt would be weaker than his Sith apprentice self, much less his Jedi self, as he himself says he has grown in power since then (link).

CONCLUSION: DARTH KRAYT VS COUNT DOOKU

It’s near-impossible not to recognize Obi-Wan Kenobi’s relativity to Count Dooku at the start of Revenge of the Sith. Kenobi keeps up his skill level for the two years leading up to his confrontation with A’Sharad Hett. He defeats the Tusken warlord, but not after significant struggle. Judging by Hett’s performance, it’s likely he’s already near Dooku’s tier before even embracing the dark side.

Hett then makes major gains in Force strength after committing himself to Sith ways for two decades. He further gets an immense boost after enduring the Embrace of Pain at the hands of the Yuuzhan Vong. After this, he took on the appellation of Darth Krayt, building his power and Sith order further in secret until finally dethroning Roan Fel and declaring himself Emperor of the galaxy.

Basically: Emperor Krayt (>)> Darth Krayt >> A Sharad Hett (Sith) >> A’Sharad Hett (Jedi) < Obi-Wan Kenobi = Count Dooku. I don’t see much reason for why the Count won’t get slaughtered like swine on butchering day.

BreakofDawn wrote:Out of order. 11 and 12 should be above 13, and 10 should arguably be above Vader as well. Also, Doku and MFV should be switched around. With this in mind, he stops at Dooku.

BreakofDawn wrote:Out of order. 11 and 12 should be above 13, and 10 should arguably be above Vader as well. Also, Doku and MFV should be switched around. With this in mind, he stops at Dooku.

LOTL wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:Out of order. 11 and 12 should be above 13, and 10 should arguably be above Vader as well. Also, Doku and MFV should be switched around. With this in mind, he stops at Dooku.

Mfv certainly isn't inferior to Dooku

BreakofDawn wrote:

LOTL wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:Out of order. 11 and 12 should be above 13, and 10 should arguably be above Vader as well. Also, Doku and MFV should be switched around. With this in mind, he stops at Dooku.

Mfv certainly isn't inferior to Dooku

Interesting. You don’t think his emotional state being that of a four year old wouldn’t hinder him (not sarcasm btw)? I admit that Vader could definitely overwhelm him in pure strength but their power is pretty open to discussion.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:More than likely gets dropped at 5 however he could make it higher through advanced sorcery and other esoteric abilities.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:>Having fun.
>Has literally been screeching autism for the past half hour.

LadyKulvax wrote:If that's the best trolling you can perform, you're as brain-dead as the character you wank.