★ Top Fifteen Tournament #2 - Palpatine

This is essentially becoming top 15 fastest characters lol

Maybe Nyax could speedblitz Malgus faster than Sheev, but I don't think that makes Nyax > Sheev. Sheev could probably kill 1 million Malgus' without too much effort but I'm not sure the same could be said for Nyax could which I think is a better indication of their respective power. Effort should be the most important factor here rather than how fast they could perform the kill as stated by Ant in the rules.

DarthAnt66 wrote:The specific metric will be the ease by which a character can defeat Darth Malgus.

Good arguments from @Quorian Debatist. Siding with Nyax

Praxis wrote:Maybe Nyax could speedblitz Malgus faster than Sheev, but I don't think that makes Nyax > Sheev. Sheev could probably kill 1 million Malgus' without too much effort but I'm not sure the same could be said for Nyax could which I think is a better indication of their respective power. Effort should be the most important factor here rather than how fast they could perform the kill as stated by Ant in the rules.

DarthAnt66 wrote:The specific metric will be the ease by which a character can defeat Darth Malgus.

This is important to reemphasize for the rest of the tournament.  You can kill someone slower than someone else but still do so with less strain.

Praxis wrote:Maybe Nyax could speedblitz Malgus faster than Sheev, but I don't think that makes Nyax > Sheev. Sheev could probably kill 1 million Malgus' without too much effort but I'm not sure the same could be said for Nyax could which I think is a better indication of their respective power. Effort should be the most important factor here rather than how fast they could perform the kill as stated by Ant in the rules.

DarthAnt66 wrote:The specific metric will be the ease by which a character can defeat Darth Malgus.

Nyax going in and shaking Malgus around like a dog would a rat isn't exactly an exertion.

Moving the goalposts to up the quantity of opponents also doesn't work. I can tell you for a fact that Luke would not be 1 or 2 two if we followed those guidelines. You're basically looking for scope at that time, so get ready for Luke to maybe not make the top 5 list in favor of Sith.

1 Malgus, not 1 million. Luke couldn't take that amount either. And I'd also question the ease used against one character when Sheev has to use his ultimate attack that requires strong degrees of concentration... but I digress. 

All of these current top 3 characters can pretty easily kill Malgus, and Az already seemed to entertain the idea of speed, so... speed is the metric for my vote here. If nobody else wants to follow that, then that's OK with me.

NYAX

I'll wait for convincing arguments before I vote.

Quorian Debatist wrote:
Nyax going in and shaking Malgus around like a dog would a rat isn't exactly an exertion.

Moving the goalposts to up the quantity of opponents also doesn't work. I can tell you for a fact that Luke would not be 1 or 2 two if we followed those guidelines. You're basically looking for scope at that time, so get ready for Luke to maybe not make the top 5 list in favor of Sith.

1 Malgus, not 1 million. Luke couldn't take that amount either. And I'd also question the ease used against one character when Sheev has to use his ultimate attack that requires strong degrees of concentration... but I digress.

My line of thinking was essentially this:

Let's say it requires Sheev 0.000002 units of effort to speedblitz 1 Malgus. Now say it also took Nyax 0.000002 units of effort to speeblitz 1 Malgus. In this case Nyax takes down Malgus with the same amount of effort as Sheev. But consider this:  Say it takes Sheev 1 unit of effort to conjure a force storm and kill 1 million Malgus' so for every 0.000001 units of effort 1 Malgus is killed, therefore Sheev is more efficient at killing 1 Malgus than Nyax is. Could Nyax pull something like that off? I don't think he possesses enough power to do so but hey I could be wrong. I think scale is important when evaluating power here since it better conveys the differences in power. For example, a city buster could maybe destroy a city in the same amount of time as a planet buster could but could a city buster destroy a planet as fast as a planet buster? Obviously not, you need a larger scale than a city (Malgus being the city and 1 million Malgus' being the planet) to differentiate between levels of power.  It may be a slightly flawed approach  but I do think it makes more sense than "Nyax is faster so therefore Nyax > Sheev" since that's a comparison of speed rather than pure power. Speed and power are definitely correlated with one another but obviously speed ≠ power and ^UNLIMITED power is what we are discussing.

Quorian Debatist wrote:
All of these current top 3 characters can pretty easily kill Malgus, and Az already seemed to entertain the idea of speed, so... speed is the metric for my vote here. If nobody else wants to follow that, then that's OK with me

I mean the OP literally states that the metric we are using is the level of ease required to beat 1 Malgus but I guess nobody can really stop you from voting that way.

Siding with Sheev unless Skillz's Valk case is convincing.

Praxis wrote:

Quorian Debatist wrote:
Nyax going in and shaking Malgus around like a dog would a rat isn't exactly an exertion.

Moving the goalposts to up the quantity of opponents also doesn't work. I can tell you for a fact that Luke would not be 1 or 2 two if we followed those guidelines. You're basically looking for scope at that time, so get ready for Luke to maybe not make the top 5 list in favor of Sith.

1 Malgus, not 1 million. Luke couldn't take that amount either. And I'd also question the ease used against one character when Sheev has to use his ultimate attack that requires strong degrees of concentration... but I digress.

My line of thinking was essentially this:

Let's say it requires Sheev 0.000002 units of effort to speedblitz 1 Malgus. Now say it also took Nyax 0.000002 units of effort to speeblitz 1 Malgus. In this case Nyax takes down Malgus with the same amount of effort as Sheev. But consider this:  Say it takes Sheev 1 unit of effort to conjure a force storm and kill 1 million Malgus' so for every 0.000001 units of effort 1 Malgus is killed, therefore Sheev is more efficient at killing 1 Malgus than Nyax is. Could Nyax pull something like that off? I don't think he possesses enough power to do so but hey I could be wrong. I think scale is important when evaluating power here since it better conveys the differences in power. For example, a city buster could maybe destroy a city in the same amount of time as a planet buster could but could a city buster destroy a planet as fast as a planet buster? Obviously not, you need a larger scale than a city (Malgus being the city and 1 million Malgus' being the planet) to differentiate between levels of power.  It may be a slightly flawed approach  but I do think it makes more sense than "Nyax is faster so therefore Nyax > Sheev" since that's a comparison of speed rather than pure power. Speed and power are definitely correlated with one another but obviously speed ≠ power and ^UNLIMITED power is what we are discussing.

Quorian Debatist wrote:
All of these current top 3 characters can pretty easily kill Malgus, and Az already seemed to entertain the idea of speed, so... speed is the metric for my vote here. If nobody else wants to follow that, then that's OK with me

I mean the OP literally states that the metric we are using is the level of ease required to beat 1 Malgus but I guess nobody can really stop you from voting that way.

So why would you vote Luke in the first round then? Per your metric Luke can't accomplish this degree of effort and power yet you still voted him with no issue in the first round? Can you explain this since Luke lacks any sort of large scale attacks? 
Once we move the goalpost like this, Luke being number 1 makes no sense.


Well, Nyax was more powerful than Luke as well by quite a bit it seems to a point where Luke figured he was leading himself, his wife, and his dead nephew's girlfriend into death. So in terms of non-esoteric powers I'm not completely divorcing his speed from power. He's not just beating Malgus because he's fast. He's beating Malgus because he's immensely more powerful, faster, and he's equipped with a ton of weapons to accomplish it.

So with 3 people that completely dwarf Malgus, speed to kill him is a viable metric to go by imo. As opposed to splitting hairs as to what lengthy attack kills him the bestest with the least energy exerted. Especially once that idea seems to be floated around by others.

I'll respond later.

@Quorian Debatist

He was being observed while fighting Luke, Tahiri, Mara and 17 Vong to move faster than anything he'd ever seen. The only real attack landed on Nyax was Luke jump-stomping on his head trying to drive his head into his knee-saber. Couple that with moving faster than Luke that Cilghal posted, and it seems like Nyax is faster than Luke in running and fighting; which is a good combination when he has to fight Malgus.

Fair enough: Nyax demonstrated more speed than Luke there. As I said earlier, I didn't know the context of the quote and was just going off of what MasterCilghal posted. Your evidence is better. However, it begs the question of whether Luke was exerting himself to the fullest. As Star Wars' all-time jobber, I don't see why the default assumption should be that he's going all-out and then scaling an otherwise unknown entity from him that way.

Again, my knowledge here is very limited, but Denua Ku is a Yuuzhan Vong observing them fight, correct? Meaning he can perceive their movements? Do Yuuzhan Vong have enhanced eyesight beyond normal humans, much less Force-sensitives such as Maul, Anakin, or Leia, all of whom have struggled to see Sidious' movements with their naked eyes in a fight?

The lightsaber whirls in the air, twirling, held in my Master's hand. I can't track it, it moves so fast. But I know it's heading for me. Lord Sidious moves faster than my eye can follow. I smell heat and smoke. The laser traces the outline of my body, my face, my hands. The buzz is loud in my ear. One flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle, and I am dead.


Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.

The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.


"Be careful, Luke! The Force is so strong... They’re both moving so fast I can hardly see them."


Heck, even Darth Malgus himself has bordered on the edge of human perception, and trainee Bane outright went past it. I don't think I need to explain why those characters are slower than Sidious.

ZEERID FLEW THE SPEEDER full-throttle at over a hundred meters in altitude. He watched an Imperial shuttle accelerate into the sky from the vicinity of the Jedi Temple. Thinking of Aryn, he felt his stomach flutter. He flew still higher, hoping to catch a glimpse of her near the Temple.

And he did.

She and Darth Malgus bounded across the ruins of the Temple, their blades flashing, locking, the speed of their duel so fast Zeerid could barely follow their movement. Despite himself, he found the combat beautiful.


He channeled it through his muscles and limbs, moving so fast it seemed as if time had stopped for the rest of the world. In the blink of an eye he knocked the saber from Sirak's hand, sliced down to shatter his forearm, then spun through and brought his saber crashing into his opponent's lower leg. It splintered under the impact and Sirak screamed as a shard of gleaming white bone sliced through muscle, sinew, and finally skin.

For an instant none of the spectators was even aware of what had happened; it took their minds a moment to catch up and register the blur of action that had occurred so much quicker than their eyes could see.


After all, we are talking about the guy who from time to time has such jobbing moments as failing to lift an AT-PT walker only a year before DE, running from droidekas in 22 ABY, and struggling against the sub-Vader Lumiya well into his Grand Master years. If it's empirically proven a Yuuzhan Vong is capable of following him fight, then he's not going very fast at all against Nyax there, is he?

Unless of course the Vong's eyesight is far greater than ordinary humans' and even some Force users, in which case you have a point. If you can also definitively prove Luke was going all-out, I'll concede on Nyax's speed.

The context of that quote happened when it was previously talking about meditation. It's separating it from the implication meditation implies, but it doesn't mean it's instantaneous just because it's a power that can be used without rituals or meditation.

The Emperor summoned a Force storm "as he perished" to "rend space" and transport his essence across the galaxy in Return of the Jedi when he had inferior control of the ability than he did in Dark Empire. It's instantaneous. Palpatine outright says he can do so "Through a simple act of Will" and with "mere thought and inclination."

But that's not it, next we'll combine two mediums due to comics constraint to accurately convey time.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64880/3526018-2721837233-26681.jpg

We'll notice in the first panel Sheev is glowing. Luke's speech starts at 2:26:14. Sheev starts talking at 2:26:22 where we hear rumblings. The Force Storm is revealed at 2:26:47.

Next, we'll go back to the comic:
"With Mounting Anguish, Luke and Leia watch the Emperor's rage take form, as a great storm of raw energy rends the fabric of space itself!"

This entire quote implies it's happening as they watch. So if we follow along with the timeframe, it takes 33-25 seconds to create the storm.

You're confusing the storm appearing to Luke and Leia on the viewscreen with the storm being summoned in the first place. That they're watching it take form is self-evident as the storm gets larger over time, but doesn't mean they saw it appear out of thin air when it first manifested in the physical world. The rumbling noises that appear as Sheev starts talking continue even after Luke and Leia notice and comment on the storm - that's proof the sounds don't signify its creation before it appears in the physical realm, but rather they indicate the storm is already present.

If we assume Sheev starts glowing as Luke starts taking, and the rumblings are the storm forming, it takes 8 seconds to create the storm. So we have somewhere between 8-33 seconds in a way that we can actually attempt to measure. I could also make note of Leia stating "He's creating another force storm," but I think we'll leave it at that.

I don't think this goes against the quote either, as it was still done with will and nudging in that direction while he was speaking. He did trigger it, but it didn't come into fruition until a smidge later.

And why would we assume that? We know the storm appeared as soon as Palpatine started talking, and we know that he can trigger them instantaneously just by thinking about it. Even if the trigger and the actual storm appearing are different phenomena (which I don't see the need to baselessly assume), it doesn't affect the technique's efficacy in a combat situation since Palpatine did tear open space with it instantaneously to transport his spirit. So even if it takes time for the energy storm to manifest from the hole in space-time, Sheev can still use just the rending itself to separate Malgus's head from his shoulders just by thinking about the storm appearing in his location similar to what Wong did to Cull Obsidian in Avengers: Infinity War. Note that Sheev doesn't even technically have to rip through Malgus' Force barrier since he's not directly targeting Malgus but the space around him.



(2:15)

The endnotes for the sixth comic issue even state he is capable of this, labelling him as "a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine."

Think about this, what do you think will happen first in a quickdraw situation:

Sheev throwing lightning/force push

or

Sheev summoning a force storm

Assuming the Emperor would opt to use lightning before storm, let's examine his lightning, then.

SIDIOUS VS. YODA, LIGHTSABERS

DARTH SIDIOUS ignites his lightsaber.

YODA: Faith in your new apprentice, misplaced may be, as is your faith in the dark side of the Force.

Their swords CLASH. The battle is extremely fast and furious.

[...]

PALPATINE seeks refuge in the vast Senate Chamber. He gets into the Chancellor's Podium and it starts to rise up into the Arena. YODA makes a giant leap into the control pod. The sword fighting is intense in the confined space.

[...]

YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.


That thought gave Yoda new energy, and he pressed his attack. He drove Palpatine back across the room, into the Chancellor’s podium. Palpatine hit the controls, and the podium began to rise, carrying him up into the Senate. But the podium moved slowly; Yoda had plenty of time to flip himself into the air and land beside the Emperor, to continue the fight.

As the podium rose into the Senate arena, the fight intensified. Twice, Yoda came near to pushing Palpatine over the edge. They were high enough now that a fall could be fatal, even to a Sith Lord. Or a Jedi Master. The cramped space within the pod left little room for maneuvering.

An end, I must make. Yoda redoubled the speed of his blows. Palpatine parried one, then another — and then the red lightsaber spun out of his hands and over the edge. Yoda raised his weapon for the final blow.




Lightsabers blazed and the duel began. Palpatine called upon his dark arts, slashing away in fury, but Yoda's accomplished command of the Force blocked his every blow.

Overmatched, Palpatine fled into the vast Senate Chamber. He rushed into a control pod and it began to rise from the floor. Then Yoda leaped aboard, unleashing a masterful assault.


SIDIOUS VS. YODA, LIGHTNING

Exhibit 1: In the film, the script, the junior novelization, and the comic, Yoda has trouble reacting to the incoming lightning bolts. In the movie he doesn't even get his hands up in time. In the novelization, he deflects the initial blast but is downed by the second despite having his lightsaber on guard.



DARTH SlDIOUS: Your arrogance blinds you, Master Yoda. Now you will experience the full power of the dark side.

The Dark Lord raises his arms, and LIGHTNING BOLTS shoot out, surrounding YODA.

YODA is picked up and thrown across the room, hitting the wall and sliding down in a crumpled heap. DARTH SIDIOUS chuckles.


"So easily slain, Obi-Wan is not."

"Neither are you, apparently; but that is about to change." The shadow took another step, and another.

A lightsaber appeared, green as sunlight in a forest. "The test of that, today will be."

"Even a fraction of the dark side is more power than your Jedi arrogance can conceive; living in the light, you have never seen the depth of the darkness."

The shadow spread arms that made its sleeves into black wings.

"Until now."

Lightning speared from outstretched hands, and the battle was on.

In the Senate Arena, lightning forked from the hands of a Sith, and bent away from the gesture of a Jedi to shock Redrobes into unconsciousness.

Then there were only the two of them.Their clash transcended the personal; when new lightning blazed, it was not Palpatine burning Yoda with his hate, it was the Lord of all Sith scorching the Master of all Jedi into a smoldering huddle of clothing and green flesh.


“Your arrogance blinds you, Master Yoda,” Darth Sidious hissed. “Now you will experience the full power of the dark side.” He raised his arms, and the Force pulsed as blue lightning blasted Yoda across the room.




Exhibit 2: In the film and the junior novelization, Yoda fails to catch the Emperor's lightning on his lightsaber and his consequently disarmed. In the script and the novelization, the lightning hits Yoda mid-air while he was pursuing Sidious with the novelization outright noting Yoda was "too slow."



YODA leaps after him, but PALPATINE quickly turns and aims the full force of his energy bolts at the tiny green Jedi, catching him in mid-air and throwing him back hard against the Podium. The force causes YODA to drop his lightsaber. YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA.


The shadow could feel how much it cost the little green freak to bend back his lightnings into the cage of energy that enclosed them both; the creature had reached the limits of his strength. The shadow released its power for an instant, long enough only to whirl away through the air and alight upon one of the delegation pods as it flew past, and the creature leapt to follow—

Half a second too slow.

The shadow unleashed its lightning while the creature was still in the air, and the little green freak took its full power. The shock blasted him backward to crash against the podium, and he fell.

He fell a long way.


As he reached Palpatine’s pod, the Sith Lord hit him with another blast of blue lightning that knocked Yoda’s lightsaber out of his hand. Palpatine’s lips curled in anticipated triumph, and the dark side pulsed as he drew even more Force lightning to his bidding.


As to the times Yoda did successfully block Sidious' lightning, there was always context.

Exhibit 1: Palpatine's first lightning barrage clearly wasn't fired at full intensity as when Yoda redirects it to hit the guards, they merely fall unconscious instead of turning to ash. His second blast Yoda outright fails to defend against, despite having his lightsaber drawn and ready for combat.

"So easily slain, Obi-Wan is not."

"Neither are you, apparently; but that is about to change." The shadow took another step, and another.

A lightsaber appeared, green as sunlight in a forest. "The test of that, today will be."

"Even a fraction of the dark side is more power than your Jedi arrogance can conceive; living in the light, you have never seen the depth of the darkness."

The shadow spread arms that made its sleeves into black wings.

"Until now."

Lightning speared from outstretched hands, and the battle was on.

In the Senate Arena, lightning forked from the hands of a Sith, and bent away from the gesture of a Jedi to shock Redrobes into unconsciousness.

Then there were only the two of them.Their clash transcended the personal; when new lightning blazed, it was not Palpatine burning Yoda with his hate, it was the Lord of all Sith scorching the Master of all Jedi into a smoldering huddle of clothing and green flesh.


Exhibit 2: While the script and the comic offer no details, the junior novelization's rendition of the same scene clarifies that the Emperor redoubled the intensity of his lightning later on, meaning it wasn't at full power when Yoda initially caught it. Note that the script saying "It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed" merely conveys what the audience is seeing, not what is actually happening, hence the "as if." We know that Sidious wasn't really close to losing his life there.

YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.


Force lightning spat from the Emperor’s gray fingers, surrounding Yoda in a blue nimbus. But Yoda had faced Force lightning before. To deflect the first bolts, he had to stop his intended strike at the Emperor. Once his initial surprise was over, he reached out to the living Force. The lightning bent, arcing back toward the Emperor.

“Destroy you, I will,” Yoda said grimly. “Just as Master Kenobi, your apprentice will destroy.”

The Sith Lord only redoubled his attack. Hurling Force lightning, the Emperor backed away, to the very edge of the platform. Following him was like walking against hurricane winds. Never had Yoda faced one so strong in the dark side. Before he came within reach, a particularly strong blast knocked Yoda out of the pod.




In conclusion? Yoda is clearly faster and better than Sidious in a lightsaber duel. He forces Sidious into the Senate Chamber where the latter sought "refuge" as a result of being "Overmatched". On the podium, Yoda nearly forces Sidious off the edge several times, and after ramping up his speed, disarms him in three blows.

Yet he repeatedly fails to react to Sheev's lightning. In the movie he even fails to get his hands up at the start. On one occasion (two, if you count the novelization) he even has his lightsaber ready, and is fully expecting lightning as his adversary was without his lightsaber and lightning was the directly antecedent attack (in both the novel, and the movie and junior novel), so you can't say he was caught off-guard at any time there.

Sidious' lightning is much, much faster than the man himself is when dueling with a blade. So tying this to Luke, yes, he defeated the Emperor in a lightsaber duel, but that in no way means he can move faster than the Emperor's lightning as Yoda couldn't in a similar situation. Therefore, even if I did concede Nyax is faster than an all-out Luke post-DE (and to be clear, I haven't), it doesn't prove Nyax can kill Malgus quicker than the Emperor could with lightning, something which Sidious has used to open fights before (vs Yoda, vs Galen). And that's being generous to Nyax in ignoring that Luke was amped by Battle Meditation when he fought Sheev, and that we don't know if his victory was even the result of greater speed rather than superior skill, both factors which cast doubt on Nyax's alleged speed advantage over Sheev even further.

@Azronger it is indeed true Luke usually holds back a lot, but the novel makes several hints and even direct statements at Nyax being more powerful than Luke, such as Skywalker being unsure of being able to defeat him. Being more powerful in the force, by default, means having superior augmentation. Here are some: 

And he was tired of these creatures. They were weaker than he, but so stubborn. Even inventive.
--Enemy Lines II: Rebel Stand



He was about to lead his wife and a teenager into a situation he wasn’t sure he could handle, a situation that was likely to get them all killed. He looked at Face again. “If we die here, the other Jedi need to know about Lord Nyax. You’re going to tell them.”

--Enemy Lines II: Rebel Stand


“That fountain of Force energy is what made Nyax stronger,” Luke said. “It’s pure power … and we can use it, too.” --Enemy Lines II: Rebel Stand

Take into account that Luke,Tahiri and Mara were using the nexus as well, so unless one can prove the nexus was more beneficial to Nyax than to the Jedi,he should be more powerful than them even without it. My vote for Palpatine still remains due to the nature of force storms, though.

@Azronger Good post.

@Azronger Good point made. I'll wait until @Quorian Debatist respond before agreeing with one or the other side.
I'm now undecided between Nyax and Sheev.

I’ll vote for Sidious, as his mastery of force storms, and his ability to curbstomp Luke until Luke went into Oneness impress me just a little more than Valk’s Ziost and ragdolling the Outlander, Unchained Vaylin, and Arcann feats.

Do the sheev supporters have any counter to Valkorion scaling vastly above draining a planet in 30 seconds?

Yeah, Valkorion>>SWTOR Vitiate>>Spirit Vitiate>Draining Ziost is pretty potent wank. What does Sheev have that's comparable?

Sheev

Also, holy shit; Azronger's actually being civil and intelligent.

Quorian Debatist wrote:So why would you vote Luke in the first round then? Per your metric Luke can't accomplish this degree of effort and power yet you still voted him with no issue in the first round? Can you explain this since Luke lacks any sort of large scale attacks? 
Once we move the goalpost like this, Luke being number 1 makes no sense.

I'll just respond this part since @Azronger pretty much addressed everything regarding Sheev vs Nyax. Luke's feat in Dark Nest, Book III is on an infinitely larger scale than literally anything Sheev or Nyax have ever performed.

But this time Luke was ready, he placed his own hand in front of Raynar's, rooted himself in the heart of the force. And when he did that he became the very essence of the immovable object. Nothing could dislodge him; not one of Lando's asteroid tuggers, not the Megador's 16 ion engines, not the blackhole at the center of the galaxy itself. Luke stood that way waiting, fully aware that the remaining bugcrunchers were moving into defensive positions.

This would require an infinite amount of energy to pull off so I think Luke would be more than capable of doing something on the scale of a Force Storm. Honestly I'm not sure the author comprehended the implication of what he was writing because it's honestly a retardedly overpowered feat.

@KingofBlades @NotAA3 If you're asking if Sheev has anything comparable as in "able to be likened to another" or "similar," then no, he does not. But I can easily reverse the question and ask what does Valkorion have that's comparable to ripping holes in space-time and manipulating energies potent enough to raze the surfaces of worlds, being the fulcrum of the Galactic Empire through the dark side, telekinetically levitating a 19-kilometer-long Super Star Destroyer, clouding the foresight of 10 000 Jedi and unbalancing the Force through one's personal power in the dark side, and so on?

Geistalt wrote:Also, holy shit; Azronger's actually being civil and intelligent.

Yeah, I've long since changed.

Welcome to the forum, btw.

Azronger wrote:telekinetically levitating a 19-kilometer-long Super Star Destroyer, 

We have no clear proof that Sidious done this....

Azronger wrote:unbalancing the Force through one's personal power in the dark side 

Same as above....

I have explain this here.

@azronger ripping holes in space time in of itself isn't impressive relatively speaking. Fold space does that. Its the scale thats in question. And draining a planet in 30 or so seconds should certainly be at least comparable in scale to sheev possessing the power to raze the surfaces of planets or swallow fleets via force storm. Then Valkorion scales massively above said feat that is comparable to Sidious's best feats. Unless you can prove Sidious's feats are massively above the ziost drain in scale, I don't think Sheev has shown anything putting him above Peak Valkorion.