Mara Jade Skywalker vs Satele Shan

HeartoftheForce wrote:Satele stomps.

Vaelias wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:Satele stomps.

Got any reason for that, id say quite the opposite

HeartoftheForce wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:Satele stomps.

Got any reason for that, id say quite the opposite

Satele isn’t exhausted from collapsing a one meter high cave.

Vaelias wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:Satele stomps.

Got any reason for that, id say quite the opposite

Satele isn’t exhausted from collapsing a one meter high cave.

but Mara also scales significantly above Satele

HeartoftheForce wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:Satele stomps.

Got any reason for that, id say quite the opposite

Satele isn’t exhausted from collapsing a one meter high cave.

but Mara also scales significantly above Satele

In zero way does she scale above Satele.

Vaelias wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:Satele stomps.

Got any reason for that, id say quite the opposite

Satele isn’t exhausted from collapsing a one meter high cave.

but Mara also scales significantly above Satele

In zero way does she scale above Satele.

Well she’s stated to be more powerful than Kyp Durron who is comparably powerful to Luke in JA so LOTF Mara is definitely > JA Luke who would definitely be above Satele

Regardless of him not using his power he still possesses that power

Kyp being ~ Luke

Mara by LOTF will undoubtably be stronger than JA Luke regardless of not learning anything her strength in the force will have most likely grown, even if she didn’t she’d still be on a level with JA Luke

Let's see the quotes. It's definitely not referring to JA as Mara is confirmed to be "lightyears" below Kyp and more a rival of Corran. Other than that most of Kyp's quotes refer to potential and being generally powerful.

At least by FotJ an injured Luke, hindered by a nexus laughed at a being of Kyp's power.

Jedi Academy Vol 2 wrote:In the temples of a long-gone people, the spirit of Exar Kun, the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith, lives, whose teachings once led Darth Vader to the side of evil. Luke must watch helplessly as some of his students succumb to the whisperings of Exar Kun. Above all, the young Kyp Durron, who is utterly devoured by hatred for the Empire, is only too willing to follow the temptations of the forbidden Sith teachings. Without realizing, he is more and more dedicated to the dark side of power. Soon he's more powerful than Luke and threatens to become an even more dangerous opponent than Darth Vader once was ...

Vaelias wrote:

Let's see the quotes. It's definitely not referring to JA as Mara is confirmed to be "lightyears" below Kyp and more a rival of Corran. Other than that most of Kyp's quotes refer to potential and being generally powerful.

At least by FotJ an injured Luke, hindered by a nexus laughed at a being of Kyp's power.

As you say Kyp declined after this so that could be in reference to Kyps current power in FOTJ, even if not FOTJ Luke would definitely be much more powerful than Kyp anyway, even if JA Kyp = JA Luke, FOTJ Luke would probably laugh at JA Luke's power he grows much more powerful between those times, anyway here is one quote, i believe there are a couple more aswel

Jedi Academy Vol 2 wrote:In the temples of a long-gone people, the spirit of Exar Kun, the most powerful Dark Lord of the Sith, lives, whose teachings once led Darth Vader to the side of evil. Luke must watch helplessly as some of his students succumb to the whisperings of Exar Kun. Above all, the young Kyp Durron, who is utterly devoured by hatred for the Empire, is only too willing to follow the temptations of the forbidden Sith teachings. Without realizing, he is more and more dedicated to the dark side of power. Soon he's more powerful than Luke and threatens to become an even more dangerous opponent than Darth Vader once was ...

“But there were other Jedi Knights, as powerful as Skywalker in Skidder’s estimation, who took issue with some of the Master’s teachings. Jedi Master Kyp Durron, for one.”
-Agents of Chaos 1

“Luke Skywalker had done this once, a couple of years ago. He'd mentioned it to the other Jedi. No one else had tried it because it had exhausted Luke to the point of collapse, and Jedi were seldom in a position to survive a technique that tired them so completely.

And he didn't think he'd be as terribly drained as Luke by the technique. He was stronger in the Force than Luke Skywalker.
He'd known that almost since they'd met - that he had more pure power than the legendary Jedi Master. But this was, perhaps, the first time he'd been able to say it to himself without a little thrill of pride. He was just stronger, and that was all. It usually didn't matter. Now it did.”
-Rebel Dream

@Vaelias

“But there were other Jedi Knights, as powerful as Skywalker in Skidder’s estimation, who took issue with some of the Master’s teachings. Jedi Master Kyp Durron, for one.”
-Agents of Chaos 1

It’s worth mentioning that Kyp was less exhausted than Luke after the Dovin Basal feat and considered himself more powerful 

"One of the things is tough is that a lot of the readers of fantasy are very young. The concept of an unreliable narrator just doesn't register," offered Cunningham. "If somebody says something, they assume that it's the truth."

Allston was then deluged by questions about who would win in a fight, Luke vs. Kyp. "When people ask me do I think if Luke is stronger than Kyp, I refer them to the databank on starwars.com. Because that has the ultimate answer. If I answered it, I would providing a secondary source for an answer that doesn't require it. In competitions or combat, we don't think in terms of comparing numbers and rolling dice, even though many of us are roleplaying game writers. We think, 'What does the complete scene serve in the story?' and that pretty much dictates the course of the story."

Star Wars: Expanded Universe | Q & A with Star Wars Authors

And this is what Allston was referring to (the link is included in the interview):

Following the peace treaty that brought a formal end to the Galactic Civil War, Mara Jade and Luke Skywalker wed on Coruscant. For a galaxy undergoing seismic political change, the two represented an inspiring ideal and a powerful symbol. A former Imperial agent and the galaxy's most powerful Jedi Master had found a way beyond their past differences to find love.

Star Wars: Databank | Skywalker, Mara Jade

Anakin's bold stance and daring nature made him into a popular figure among the Jedi and New Republic. Many privately whispered that he would someday take Luke Skywalker's place as the most powerful Jedi. The bloody events of the ongoing war would indisputably provide an answer to that speculation.

Star Wars: Databank | Solo, Anakin

Spoiler:

But my argument was never Kyp > Luke I’m just saying Kyp is around Luke’s level in the early NJO albeit probably weaker but they are in the same league let’s just say

Basically Kyp shouldn’t be kept down because he is lower and Mara and Anakin Solo

he is compared to early NJO Luke on multiple occasions or as I say at least in the same league

So he wouldn't oblige her by revealing his physical position in the Force. Fine. She spotted a rusty metal sheet about half a meter wide and laid it carefully across the tunnel floor, propped on stones so he'd tread on it and give her an audible warning when he reached that point. An intense Force shake of the brickwork and arches in front of and behind the metal plate weakened them, and then she stopped them from collapsing by Force pressure.

The rumbling began. She brought down both sections of tunnel, before and behind, with a massive exertion in the Force that made her breathless. She didn't hear him call out. Even in the damp conditions, clouds of fine debris filled the air and made her choke.

Quorian Debatist wrote:In the full context of the quote, they're trying to dissuade the government from turning Jacen into a Jedi Master. Luke says it's not a lack of power or skill, but rather a lack of mastery and emotions. Kyp then lies because they somehow overheard his private talks and basically states that although he's no weaker, his Jedi understanding would disallow him to retrieve a weapon to specifically kill star systems and murder his own brother accidentally. That Jacen lacks that inner voice that comes with a true emotional maturity that would stop him from doing rash moves and decisions. Basically saying that Kyp has a limitation on his Jedi powers that keep him from ever doing bad again, that makes him a true paragon of the Force, and he's explaining why that's different from power or skill.

It's not that he can't fully wield his power and is therefore out of his prime, it's that he can't use his powers for bad anymore. It's a built-in failsafe that Jacen lacks... which was proven correct.

Exile:

That's assuming we even believe Kyp in the first place. He's basically portraying a Jedi Master as infallible which we know they're not. But it doesn't matter, it's not a ceiling on his power.


If we ignore the context of how he accomplished the initial feat like Kyp does, then he's basically saying he's no less powerful than Kyp on the Yavin focusing pyramids and getting amped by Kun. He then is powerful enough to rip a ship out of the gravity of a gas giant's core - which is absolutely immense forces that nothing in the Republic could enter - from hundreds of thousands of miles away. The only thing stopping him is the understanding that he's going to use it to murder millions of the remnants of the Empire, not actual power.

The only thing that changes with the real context, is that he would lack the focus to drive a ship out of a gas giant's core that he was going to use to immediately exterminate the Empire with. He would still be putting himself no less powerful than a severely amped younger Kyp (and vastly more skilled), just that he couldn't focus on driving it out due to his Darkside purposes.

Dark Apprentice wrote:Size matters not, Master Skywalker had repeated. Kyp engulfed the Sun Crusher with his mind, surrounding it, touching it with his limitless, invisible hands. He thought about heaving it back up, dragging the Sun Crusher out of the depths of Yavin. But he discarded that thought.

Instead, with the assistance of Exar Kun, he used his innate skill to power up the controls again, to move control levers, push buttons to alter the course stored in the Sun Crusher's memory, bringing it out of its entombment.

Kyp continued to watch the weapon's progress, focusing on the sphere of the enormous planet as it crested the misty treetops. The Sun Crusher appeared as a silvery dot, seeming no larger than an atom as it emerged from the highest cloud layers and streaked across space toward the emerald-green moon where Kyp waited.

He stared upward and waited, opening his arms to receive the indestructible weapon.

The Sun Crusher approached like a long, sharp thorn of crystalline alloy, cruising upright on its long axis. The toroidal resonance-torpedo launcher hung at the bottom of the long hook. It looked beautiful.

The Sun Crusher descended through the jungle moon's atmosphere, straight down--like a spike to impale the Great Temple. Kyp controlled it, slowed its descent, until the superweapon hovered to a stop, suspended in front of him.

As the sky brightened with planetrise, the alloy hull of the Sun Crusher seemed as pristine as a firefacet gem, scoured of all oxidation and debris by the intense temperatures and pressures at the core of Yavin. The Sun Crusher looked clean, and deadly, and ready for him.

"Thank you, Exar Kun," Kyp whispered.

He's powerful enough to do it still, but his conscious would stop him from moving levers to drive the ship out and destroy stars. Is that really a limitation on his powers in the heat of battle when the original feat was tied to his innate skill; of which he far surpasses?

Unless Kyp has to retrieve super weapons to murder stars, then I don't see why this quote is being used to kneecap later Kyps. If anything all it does is give him all his amped feats besides a refusal to use the Darkside.

KingofBlades wrote:Mara is a hotter so she wins