Re: Where to rank Vader ?

July 18th 2019, 1:50 pm

You can't be serious....

July 18th 2019, 11:40 pm

Meatpants wrote:You can't be serious....

Completely serious. The quote says you have to be as powerful as Yoda to survive Dooku's attack; Dooku is less powerful and survived it. Quote debunked. No one has to take it seriously. As you yourself admitted feats take precedence over clearly contradicted quotes. You've yet to address this with anything but circular logic.

July 18th 2019, 11:49 pm

Kilius wrote:

Meatpants wrote:You can't be serious....

Completely serious. The quote says you have to be as powerful as Yoda to survive Dooku's attack; Dooku is less powerful and survived it. Quote debunked. No one has to take it seriously. As you yourself admitted feats take precedence over clearly contradicted quotes. You've yet to address this with anything but circular logic.

The quote is debunked far more convincingly in Ant’s post.

July 18th 2019, 11:55 pm

DarthSkywalker0 wrote:

Kilius wrote:

Meatpants wrote:You can't be serious....

Completely serious. The quote says you have to be as powerful as Yoda to survive Dooku's attack; Dooku is less powerful and survived it. Quote debunked. No one has to take it seriously. As you yourself admitted feats take precedence over clearly contradicted quotes. You've yet to address this with anything but circular logic.

The quote is debunked far more convincingly in Ant’s post.

How is my debunk less convincing though? Dooku fired lightning at Yoda with the intent to kill him and Yoda redirect the same attack back at him and survived it. Pretty direct and straight forward. Not only that but it's the actual attack the quote and it's illustration is referring to; so no mental gymnastics about a hypothetical attack method that never played out can be used to wiggle away from evidence.

July 19th 2019, 11:02 am

Assuming that the redirected attack is just as powerful; note also that the quote pertains specifically to Jedi Masters, thus Dooku falls outside it.

July 20th 2019, 8:42 pm

Around TCW Maul/ROTS Kenobi.

In between Kun and SF Makak.

July 23rd 2019, 8:32 am

This Dooku quote is even more hilarious than the notion of Vader being anywhere near Sidious in power.

OT, Around Dooku and Maul level, as Lucas stated.

July 23rd 2019, 9:38 am

Honestly, it depends on the era. You can use his early 19-18 BBY feats and his purported growth to wank him, but his less than stellar showings against TPM Maul, post-prime Kenobi, and barely trained Luke isn't really anything to brag about, and as such are often used to lowball.

I view it the same way most do with the inconsistent portrayals of TCW Grievous and pre-2008 Grievous: rate them separately and don't composite. It's clear OT Vader was written in the mindset he was post-prime and a shadow of his former self. Whereas most writers post-2005 view him as superior to Anakin and by extension Dooku and Maul.

July 23rd 2019, 4:30 pm

I think Kilius is onto something, I think we should attempt to reconcile Vader rather than just say the OT is shit.

it would only make sense for Luke to scale off of Jax Pavan, Ferus olin etc, since they had inferior performances against Vader themselves.

July 23rd 2019, 4:59 pm

Kilius wrote:Whereas most writers post-2005 view him as superior to Anakin and by extension Dooku and Maul.

No.

July 27th 2019, 8:17 am

Kilius wrote:Honestly, it depends on the era. You can use his early 19-18 BBY feats and his purported growth to wank him, but his less than stellar showings against TPM Maul, post-prime Kenobi, and barely trained Luke isn't really anything to brag about, and as such are often used to lowball.

I view it the same way most do with the inconsistent portrayals of TCW Grievous and pre-2008 Grievous: rate them separately and don't composite. It's clear OT Vader was written in the mindset he was post-prime and a shadow of his former self. Whereas most writers post-2005 view him as superior to Anakin and by extension Dooku and Maul.

I don't think writers view him as superior to Anakin. But definitely Dooku and Maul.
I also don't think His showing against TPM Maul is as bad as some people may think. in the end he did win the fight. Also this was a pre prime Vader who was still lacking in mobility.

July 31st 2019, 10:15 am

Above anyone from pre-Bane Sith, below from Plagueis.

July 31st 2019, 5:45 pm

Somewhere in the mid Banites range. Around SF Malak.

July 31st 2019, 5:47 pm

Cancer.

July 31st 2019, 5:51 pm

DC77 wrote:Somewhere in the mid Banites range. Around SF Malak.

NotAA3 wrote:Cancer.

July 31st 2019, 5:52 pm

OT-Below Scout.

July 31st 2019, 6:20 pm

NotAA3 wrote:OT-Below Scout.

Obvious troll

July 31st 2019, 6:21 pm

SithSauce wrote:

NotAA3 wrote:OT-Below Scout.

Obvious troll

You're right. Vader is more Whie tier in all seriousness.

July 31st 2019, 6:23 pm

In all honesty SF Malak level seems to be a more sensible placement for Vader than what most have him on.

July 31st 2019, 6:24 pm

Right, so sub ROT Bane then

July 31st 2019, 6:31 pm

BaratoBhajji wrote:Right, so sub ROT Bane then

Where to rank Vader ? - Page 4 1076326320

March 6th 2020, 11:51 pm

TPM Maul or Jinn.

March 7th 2020, 12:43 am

Around Dooku level at his peak. Maybe a bit higher in power, maybe a bit lower.

March 7th 2020, 4:13 pm

Slightly below TPM Maul combatively, a bit above in power.

March 7th 2020, 4:29 pm

So I just gotta ask, how are you all able to rank where he is at compared to others?

I guess this could also be asked in the general sense, but for the thread it fits.

Like where and what do you look at or compare and how do you even know it even works or fits? How do you even know for sure, that that's where he is?