Jedi Master Dooku vs Shaak Ti (TFU)

Fight is on Felucia

Who wins nigs

Dooku stomps with one arm

Meh, I would struggle to put Dooku over any Marek incarnation. Let alone on-par with his Felucia incarnation.

Meatpants wrote:Dooku stomps with one finger

Like this:

Dooku lifted that one finger, and this time he tapped it in the air, as if pushing a needle into a pincushion. Ventress crumpled to her knees. Her voice came out clotted with pain. "Please," she said. "Don't."

"It doesn't feel good, does it? Like sharp stones in your throat and chest." Dooku made another little patting motion, and Ventress slammed to the tile floor. "It's the blood vessels I hate, "Dooku said. "The way they stretch inside like balloons about to pop."

"P-p-p-please..."

"But worse anything is the memories," he said, more softly still. "They crowed around, like flies on meat. Every despicable thing, every petty vice, every little act of spite." A cruel, strange quiet stretched out as Ventress panted on the stone floor. Rain ticked against the window glass, and the Count's voice went dark and far away. "All the things you should have stopped, but didn't, and nothing will ever be right again. And the things you've done," he whispered. "By the pitless stars, the things you've done..."

The comm on Dooku's desk beeped. He shook his head, like a man waking from a dream. "The Troxan delegation is at the door."

Ventress crawled to her feet. Her face was bruised and her cheeks were wet with tears. Both pretended not to notice.

@Azronger

Exactly like that.

Suggesting Dooku isn't above any incarnation of Marek is laughably false.

Anyway, Dooku wins decisively.

So what's the main source of wank for TPM Dooku other than reverse scaling from his Sith self?

So, you are asking that question after spending hundreds of characters hyping him up against Skillz?

That appears to be the case, yeah.

Dooku

The Cosmic Force wrote:Suggesting Dooku isn't above any incarnation of Marek is laughably false.

Anyway, Dooku wins decisively.

Jedi Dooku barely has anything to his name. Certainly not anything more impressive than even the earlier TFU Marek incarnations.

ILS wrote:So what's the main source of wank for TPM Dooku other than reverse scaling from his Sith self?

From what I know, it’s being around TPM Windu level, having a tonne of hype quotes, etc.

Dooku. He’s got some accolades that Ti just doesn’t match.

LadyKulvax wrote:

The Cosmic Force wrote:Suggesting Dooku isn't above any incarnation of Marek is laughably false.

Anyway, Dooku wins decisively.

Jedi Dooku barely has anything to his name. Certainly not anything more impressive than even the earlier TFU Marek incarnations.

He's stated by numerous sources to be on par with Mace and Yoda in swordsmanship and is stated to be the order's greatest student by Yoda. He's also above everyone else in the temple besides Yoda and Mace which includes Jinn who could hard press TPM Maul who was comparable to TCW S4 Kenobi. Need I go on?

Meanwhile, Marek on his first two missions is being given hard fights by "an old man and an outcast" who aren't comparable to "a true Jedi Master" which Dooku is. I don't think I need to explain why Jedi Dooku should at least be above Raxus Prime Marek (talking about Marek's first visit there) at a bare minimum. This is ignoring the fact that Ti doesn't scale to any of Marek's feats (or at least not any feats he achieved after defeating Paratus) given she fought him on an LS nexus after he'd fought through an army of Felucians.

ILS wrote:So what's the main source of wank for TPM Dooku other than reverse scaling from his Sith self?

See my above post.

Yeah, Qui-Gon can give Maul a moderately decent fight; Master Dooku would blitz TPM Darth Maul, given his approximate parity in swordsmanship with the likes of Yoda and Mace Windu. He had no match in the old style of fencing even as a Jedi. Even his alleged defeat from Windu as a Jedi could possibly be thrown out since Dooku himself contradicts this when he tells Windu during the CW "You never defeated me in the Jedi Temple, and you won't defeat me now." Or something along those lines.

There is no way that Felucia Marek, or Shaak Ti, ever came close to Yoda/Windu level, even as they were in TPM.

Dooku kicks her to the curb.

Meatpants wrote:Master Dooku would blitz TPM Darth Maul, given his approximate parity in swordsmanship with the likes of Yoda and Mace Windu.

Evidence this applied to anything other than technical skill?

Because make no mistake, there is a lot of evidence putting both of them above the Count. The majority of evidence favoring Dooku comes from in universe opinions of Jedi

As to Yoda's musings he also acknowledged that Qui Gon was the best student he taught in over 400 years yet. The best, not one of the best

Also, obvious bait

LOTL wrote:Evidence this applied to anything other than technical skill?]

He was only ever defeated in combat by Yoda (with Windu it's probably unknown, since there's contradictory material). And that's not a random Jedi's opinion.

LOTL wrote:Because make no mistake, there is a lot of evidence putting both of them above the Count. The majority of evidence favoring Dooku comes from in universe opinions of Jedi

No, a lot of Master Dooku's quotes are OOU. And you can't seriously be arguing for Shaak Ti having reached around TPM Windu/Yoda level, or be capable of contending with that?

LOTL wrote:As to Yoda's musings he also acknowledged that Qui Gon was the best student he taught in over 400 years yet. The best, not one of the best

Quote was retconned. Though I'm guessing you want to argue some sort of angle that "nah but atchually it refers to Yoda". Which is contradicted heavily everywhere else, since Yoda has referred to Dooku as the Jedi's greatest student, was straight up awed by his enigmatic connection to the Force, and the fact that Yoda would only teach Qui-Gon as an initiate.

This thread is already a meme. I'll dig a grave for Ti and anybody who thinks she stands a snowballs chance here.

Meatpants wrote:

LOTL wrote:Evidence this applied to anything other than technical skill?]

He was only ever defeated in combat by Yoda (with Windu it's probably unknown, since there's contradictory material). And that's not a random Jedi's opinion.

LOTL wrote:Because make no mistake, there is a lot of evidence putting both of them above the Count. The majority of evidence favoring Dooku comes from in universe opinions of Jedi

No, a lot of Master Dooku's quotes are OOU. And you can't seriously be arguing for Shaak Ti having reached around TPM Windu/Yoda level, or be capable of contending with that?

LOTL wrote:As to Yoda's musings he also acknowledged that Qui Gon was the best student he taught in over 400 years yet. The best, not one of the best

Quote was retconned. Though I'm guessing you want to argue some sort of angle that "nah but atchually it refers to Yoda". Which is contradicted heavily everywhere else, since Yoda has referred to Dooku as the Jedi's greatest student, was straight up awed by his enigmatic connection to the Force, and the fact that Yoda would only teach Qui-Gon as an initiate.

I think you have a bit of trouble comprehending the actual quote:

"Only Master Dooku and Master Yoda ever beat Mace"

This obviously does not mean that Dooku was only defeated by Yoda only. Even more, this could have happened years before TPM, so there is nothing to indicate Dooku is superior or even comparable to Mace as of TPM by this quote.

And no, fact files and prima guides clearly have Mace above Dooku, objective quotes not the opinions of random Jedi( yeah they are random Jedi), this is ignoring the many more quotes that have Mace as comparable to or even superior to Yoda

Yeah, just not the ones that indicate that he is equal to Mace or Yoda by TPM. I never even argued for or against Ti nor did I comment on the battle. Your problem is that you presume too many things from incomplete information as you are doing currently

Yoda too only taught the Count as an initiate. Yoda too is attached to Dooku, emotionally, and the fact that his judgement is compromised is evident by the fact that he offers the Count a place in the Jedi Order again, in spite of the Count being responsible for the devastation of a galaxy, so yeah, I am taking those statements lightly.. Especially as Anakin is evidently the Order's most gifted student by far

On that note, exactly who are the best Jedi in the Order before Dooku? Plo Koon? Kit Fisto?

Nobody else before Dooku came close to his tier. It is only after Dooku that the real prodigies comparable or better than him like Mace, Kenobi, Qui Gon, Anakin came along to them. So by that, to Yoda the fact that the Count's force connection is enigmatic doesn't place him above his other prodigious contemporaries because he is by far the best that Yoda has seen in centuries

Dooku without breaking a sweat

LOTL wrote:I think you have a bit of trouble comprehending the actual quote:

Am I? Well if you want to get really technical, we have these two virtually identical quotes:

Under Yoda's tutelage, Dooku became one of the greatest sword masters the Order had ever produced - eclipsed only by Mace Windu and Yoda himself.


Yoda taught many pupils throughout his years, including Dooku, who became one of the finest sword masters the Order ever produced - eclipsed only by Mace Windu and Yoda himself.


I don't like how you dismiss subjective quotes as if they're completely useless, considering there's a literal plethora of them that indicate very strongly that if Dooku was second only to Windu and Yoda, he would also give them a good fight. I would concede to you here if there was one of them, but there's more than one. The point I was making is that, roughly speaking, Master Dooku can give the likes of Windu and Yoda a good fight, which is something neither Galen Marek at the time of Felucia, nor Shaak Ti heaven's forbid, could even hope to match.

LOTL wrote:And no, fact files and prima guides clearly have Mace above Dooku, objective quotes not the opinions of random Jedi( yeah they are random Jedi), this is ignoring the many more quotes that have Mace as comparable to or even superior to Yoda

Fact Files are in-universe, and the prima guides (if they're the ones I'm thinking you're referring to) were written before Dooku even existed as a character. Prima Guide quotes should also be considered carefully, considering one quote claims Qui-Gon is more skilled than Yoda or any other Jedi.

LOTL wrote:Yoda too only taught the Count as an initiate. Yoda too is attached to Dooku, emotionally, and the fact that his judgement is compromised is evident by the fact that he offers the Count a place in the Jedi Order again, in spite of the Count being responsible for the devastation of a galaxy, so yeah, I am taking those statements lightly.. Especially as Anakin is evidently the Order's most gifted student by far

Not really... Yoda also gave Dooku special instruction with his lightsaber skills even as a Padawan under Thame. And this is besides the point, the quote from the TPM novelisation was retconned with the introduction of Dooku into the SW universe.

Also, I find it hard to believe that you're basing part of that argument on what you consider to be Yoda's failing in morality, as if that has anything to do with it.