Jedi Dooku vs ROTJ Vader

October 11th 2019, 9:31 am

Standard rules

October 11th 2019, 9:33 am

Dooku. I hold Vader around TPM Maul. Qui-Gon can challenge Maul in sabers, and Dooku as a Jedi is considerably above his former pupil. So Dooku wins comfortably.

October 11th 2019, 10:31 am

Dooku is most likely more powerful in the force and is more skilled in sabers. He takes this.

October 11th 2019, 11:23 am

Could go either way. Dooku might be more skilled but Vader should be fairly more powerful. Vader also has a huge strength advantage and at this point has somewhat mitigated his weakness to agility to speed.

October 11th 2019, 11:27 am

I’m not entirely sure where I hold Vader at the moment. I think he could pull off a win if he call on the Force deep enough. Otherwise, I’d probably side with Dooku

October 11th 2019, 3:00 pm

Vader is more powerful, but Dooku is more skilled. I'll back Vader though.

October 11th 2019, 3:39 pm

jedi dooku loses in a good fight :
vader is more powerful with the force and equally skilled in sabers .

RoTS dooku might edge it out or it could be even split .

October 11th 2019, 3:41 pm

So, Jedi Dooku can give Vader a good fight, yet ROTS Dooku who has been introduced to powers beyond his wildest fantasies can't decisively beat him? That makes a lot of sense...

October 11th 2019, 3:45 pm

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:So, Jedi Dooku can give Vader a good fight, yet ROTS Dooku who has been introduced to powers beyond his wildest fantasies can't decisively beat him? That makes a lot of sense...

it actually does.
i said "good" not great fight .
vader takes this 10/10 .

RoTS dooku does not get much better in sabers
only more powerful with the force so he can rival vader in this department as well .

and by the way such quotes are always vague AF so using them is not very credible .

October 11th 2019, 3:52 pm

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:Vader is more powerful, but Dooku is more skilled. I'll back Vader though.

October 11th 2019, 4:57 pm

ANH Vader is firmly below Ben Kenobi in force power. I can see Vader bridging the gap by RotJ, but honestly that's being generous. Since there is no evidence Kenobi grew more powerful in the force between RotS and ANH, Vader is at best an equal to RotS Kenobi in the force. RotS Dooku, on the other hand, is significantly above RotS Kenobi in the force. While Dooku obviously grew more powerful in the force when he became a sith lord but I don't think Dooku grew so much between TPM and RotS that Jedi Dooku is below Kenobi in the force. I see them as more or less equal. So in this battle between Jedi Dooku and Vader their respective powers in the force are close enough to not be a factor in the battle, leaving it to sabers. Since I don't think Dooku improved all that much in the sabers department, he's still right around where his RotS iteration is at in that department. Vader, on the other hand, had fought with only a minor edge in sabers over an old Ben Kenobi. Kenobi was noting the presence of rust only a few months into his exile, so after 20 years its likely the case that Ben Kenobi is decently below his RotS incarnation in sabers. Going by their performances in the IH battle, Dooku is at worst= RotS Kenobi in sabers which puts him well above Vader as a duelist. So in summary, Jedi Dooku and Vader are close enough in the force for it not to be a factor in the battle, leaving it to sabers, where Dooku has Vader outmatched.

October 11th 2019, 6:22 pm

@dark_globe

it actually does.
i said "good" not great fight .
vader takes this 10/10 .

You're strawmanning me. I never once claimed that you stated it was a great fight, in fact, I summarised perfectly what you were saying in my first sentence:

I wrote:So, Jedi Dooku can give Vader a good fight.

Anyway, to address the point, the fact that it's a good fight obviously conveys they are reasonably close, but the same cannot be said for TPM Dooku and ROTS Dooku as I'll elaborate on later in this post.

RoTS dooku does not get much better in sabers

We literally have quotes saying he improved from TPM to ROTS. Whether this increase was significant or not is up for debate, but the idea that he didn't get much better in sabers, as far as I'm aware, is based on nothing but conjecture.

only more powerful with the force so he can rival vader in this department as well .

And we have evidence this increase in power was colossal from Mathew Stover's ROTS Novelization meaning if he is reasonably close already he should definitely shoot considerably beyond Vader.

and by the way such quotes are always vague AF so using them is not very credible .

It's not vague lmao, it clearly tells us he's massively more powerful. We can even look to other examples of Force Users turning to the DS and observe their power surge significantly (e.g. Hett, Anakin, etc), so I don't see why it would be any different with Dooku.

October 11th 2019, 6:25 pm

Vader handily.

Better across the boards sans maybe raw skill -- but his superior physical and ability to tank a saber slash or two outweighs Dooku by a sufficient margin.

October 11th 2019, 6:46 pm

StrangerThingsFan77 wrote:Vader is more powerful, but Dooku is more skilled. I'll back Vader though.

October 12th 2019, 5:41 pm

Vader

October 12th 2019, 5:47 pm

Meatpants wrote:Dooku. I hold Vader around TPM Maul. Qui-Gon can challenge Maul in sabers, and Dooku as a Jedi is considerably above his former pupil. So Dooku wins comfortably.

October 12th 2019, 9:26 pm

Dooku easily

October 13th 2019, 3:57 am

Cuz a vastly pre prime version of Dooku can win easily. Sure lol

October 13th 2019, 3:57 am

Meatpants wrote:

Meatpants wrote:Dooku. I hold Vader around TPM Maul. Qui-Gon can challenge Maul in sabers, and Dooku as a Jedi is considerably above his former pupil. So Dooku wins comfortably.

And why can't TPM Maul challenge and beat Jedi Dooku?
And what's your evidence that Jedi Dooku is "considerably" above jinn?

October 13th 2019, 5:19 am

Easy. He was such a prodigy that he became Yoda’s star pupil, he was one of the greatest lightsaber instructors in history, even as a fresh knight out of apprenticeship he was already one of the most respected Jedi, and to top it off he was on the same level as Mace Windu with a lightsaber. Surely I don’t need to prove why TPM Mace Windu > Maul?

October 13th 2019, 11:21 am

He was such a prodigy that he became Yoda’s star pupil,

How does that put him above TPM Maul?

he was one of the greatest lightsaber instructors in history,

So was Anoone Bondara, Sora Bulq, and Cin Drallig.

even as a fresh knight out of apprenticeship he was already one of the most respected Jedi,

Ok?

and to top it off he was on the same level as Mace Windu with a lightsaber. Surely I don’t need to prove why TPM Mace Windu > Maul?

His skills were "eclipsed" by Mace and Yoda. And Mace frankly doesn't have that many impressive showings in this era. Stalemated by Tiin and on Nar Shadda he recoiled at the prospect of fighting a large hoard of fodder thugs before Depa, from whom Mace conceded she outperformed him in that mission, jumped in to help him out. Compare that to Maul cleaning out Black Sun single-handed. I'm sure TPM Mace would beat Maul but it's a tough fight. I'm not seeing Jedi Dooku beating TPM Maul in any less than an extremely hard fight

October 13th 2019, 2:11 pm

Taking my first points a little too seriously, they're meant to introduce the point that Dooku was a far greater prodigy and rose into greatness and status within the Order in such a way that it dominates Qui-Gon's own career. That's an introductory indication that Dooku was solidly above his former apprentice.

O-Siri wrote:His skills were "eclipsed" by Mace and Yoda.

Dooku is stated to be a match for Mace Windu by the time he left the Order, so he's in that range.

Everything else you've said is irrelevant. Vader is around TPM Maul, and since TPM Mace Windu (for whom Dooku is a match in sparring) has been admitted by you as superior to Maul, then Master Dooku > RotJ Vader.

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