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LOTL

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 8:31 am
NotAA3 wrote:@LOTL Nice to see you back - at least for a bit. Also, good post.

Nice to see you too
Latham2000
Latham2000
Level Three
Level Three

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 9:43 am
@LOTL It's good to see you on here.
Gianfi
Gianfi

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 10:35 am
I think I'll vote Kueller now and Kun in the next round
AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 11:01 am
Precisely 6 days to the minute:

The Outlander(9):
XSUPREMEXSKILLZX
DarthAnt66
KingofBlades
Darthbane77
BoD
Seturna
TenebrousWay
The lord of hunger
Geistalt

Exar Kun(6):
LadyKulvax
Jake
Reynard(Ethanion)
Quorian Debatist
Goat
Decaf_Beverages

Kueller(3):
EmperorCaedus
Lorenzo
Gianfi

Empress Vaylin(3):
Xolthol
Nute_Chethray
DarthSkywalker0

Gethzerion(1):
Azronger


Darth Tenebrous(1):
CuckedCurry

Darth Wyyrlok III(1):
ILS

Darth Tyranus(1):
BladeofDorin

Darth Caedus(1):
UnquantifiableCharacter77

Starkiller(1):
NotAA3

Leia Organa Solo(1):
MasterCilghal

Potential votes(1):
IG
IG
IG
Level Four
Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 11:07 am
The Commander gets my vote
Gianfi
Gianfi

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 11:21 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
If Kueller has no chance to win, then I’ll
Vote for Kun
CuckedCurry
CuckedCurry
Level Four
Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 11:41 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Switching vote to Exar Kun
DarthAnt66
DarthAnt66
Moderator
Moderator

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 11:55 am
THE ALLIANCE COMMANDER AND EXAR KUN ARE IN THE RUNNING FOR #12.

All votes for the Alliance Commander (10) and Exar Kun (8) will stay. Anyone who hasn't voted or voted for another may choose between the two. Voting ends in 96 hours.

PLEASE CHANGE YOUR VOTE:

@Xolthol
@Nute_Chethray
@DarthSkywalker0
@Azronger
@ILS
@Blade_of_Dorin
@UnquantifiableCharacter77
@NotAA3
@MasterCilghal
AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 12:14 pm
I have no interest in debating the lesser SWTOR chains because I don't need to. They're simply not worthy of pointing out. Instead let's focus on much more direct comparisons of feats and go from there.

The new main chain used for the Outlander is scaling from Arcann holding off some of the barrage of a Valkorion-amped Outlander:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Arcann_tutaminis_feat_debunk_1

Which could damage ships and kill muggles:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Arcann_tutaminis_feat_debunk_6


(Skip to 21:49)

I question why exactly it'd compare favorably in any way to Exar Kun. Tott Doneeta quelled, not just tanked, a heat storm with his power:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 4720702-tcswe-v1-211

Heat storms are super-sized hurricanes:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 4720732-lsumxff

That can incinerate people nigh-instantly:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 4720733-lsumxffa

Yet Tott Doneeta isn't on par with most Jedi Masters in his era, such as Thon and especially not Vodo-Siosk Baas and Odan-Urr:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 4703379-accolade2

Vodo was one-shotted by the spirit of Freedon Nadd from across space:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 4714244-star%20wars%20omnibus%20-%20tales%20of%20the%20jedi%20vol%2002%20%282008%29%20%28digital-empire%29%20118a

Actually, Nadd outright blocked Vodo's powers beforehand:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 4714242-star%20wars%20omnibus%20-%20tales%20of%20the%20jedi%20vol%2002%20%282008%29%20%28digital-empire%29%20118%20014%20014%20characters%20-%203996bby%20kun4

Exar Kun surpasses Nadd's spirit in power outright:

Vehicle and Starships Collection wrote:During the Great Sith War, a Jedi called Exar Kun was turned to the dark side of the Force by the spirit of Freedon Nadd. Nadd's teachings were too thorough, though, and Kun became so powerful that he destroyed Nadd's spirit forever.

Vodo-Siosk Baas, Tales of the Jedi Audio Drama wrote:"I sense a disturbance in the Force. As if one great power[Nadd] has fallen, and another[Kun] has risen in its place."

Kun absorbs all of Nadd's knowledge which makes him super powerful:

Exar Kun, Galactic Files wrote:This leads him to the tomb of a long-deceased Dark Lord named Freedon Nadd, a spirit who is destroyed by Kun after all of his magical knowledge is absorbed. Now super-powerful,

Then immediately rises further in power:

Chronicles of the Old Republic wrote:Exar Kun's power is in the ascendance.

He masters Sith alchemy which makes him more powerful in the process:

New Essential Chronology wrote:An extremely powerful figure now, Kun dabbled in dark side alchemy, creating freakish two-headed avians and hulking terentateks that thirsted after Force-rich blood.

And has become yet more powerful right after:

Chronicles of the Old Republic wrote:Meanwhile on Yavin 4, a more powerful EXAR KUN rests in his meditation chamber

Kun then has his clash with Ulic, resulting in the appearance of Marka Ragnos who bestows them with his power which alone is stated to be more power than Aleema Keto's magic ever gave her:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT06nr2R6tYx0M0oef7gb7AeLu6a27IlpF7nKYIcfsr24F-Eg9O
★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTPEtQusxer7tPH8n6ObIqD07kpvUNkjIlcGQXjj5MgUPlBVqRX

Exar Kun then spends several years gaining 'tremendous' power:

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 6558255-6679186408-droma

Obtaining the Dark Holocron which makes him even more powerful:

Tales of the Jedi wrote:Odan-Urr goes to the Force and the darkest power in the galaxy walks away from something that will make him even stronger.

The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology wrote:The most powerful Sith Holocron contained Sith teachings and histories that covered some hundred thousand years.

It's actually believed that this Holocron was responsible for most of Kun's rise to power:

Jedi VS. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force wrote:Exar Kun might not have risen to power so quickly had Odan-Urr destroyed the Sith Holocron when he’d had the chance.

Exar Kun on a light-side nexus is matched in power by an Ood Bnar drawing on the planet's power:

Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith #6 wrote:Ood resists Kun's attempts to steal the lightsabers by undergoing a final metamorphosis, plunging roots into the ground and driving Kun back with a blast of power drawn from the depths of Ossus.

Yet Exar Kun ransacked the Chamber of Antiquities of the Great Library on Ossus, containing 'precious artifacts' that held more knowledge than Kun could ever use:

Star Wars Omnibus: Tales of the Jedi Vol.2 wrote:Looking at all the precious artifacts his Massassi have stolen, Exar Kun knows he has more wealth and knowledge than he could ever use.

This results in Exar becoming far more powerful than any Jedi in the Great Sith War timeline, including Ood and thus himself as of Ossus:

Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:She discovers the accounts of the Great Sith War, and learns that though Kun was far more powerful than any one other Jedi of the time, a combined force had defeated him.

And Kun being unrivalled:

I, Jedi wrote:I let Streen fill Kun with our resolve to unite and defeat him, but Kun's contempt for us came rolling back along the line like an echo. He had faced fleets of ships and all the known Jedi. He had slain his own master. His power was unrivaled.

Simply put, Exar Kun is magnitudes of power beyond quelling a more deadly storm than Arcann withstood some of temporarily.

And yet, it gets better, spirit Kun after expending great amounts of energy to summon the Suncrusher and defeat Luke Skywalker, channels a full-blown cyclone through Streen which was confirmed to be done through Kun's power:

Champions of the Force wrote:Streen!

The old Bespin hermit stood on the outskirts of the storm with his brown Jedi robe flapping around him. His wild gray hair writhed around his head as if charged with static. His lips mumbled something incomprehensible, and his eyes remained closed as if he were having a nightmare. Leia knew that even powerful Jedi could not manipulate large-scale phenomena like the weather; but they could move objects, and she realized that was what Streen did now. Not changing the weather, but simply moving the air, drawing it in from all directions, creating a self-contained but destructive tornado that struck toward Luke's body.

"No!" she shouted into the starving wind.

"Streen!"

The cyclone struck Luke, buffeted his body, and lifted it into the air.

Leia ran toward her paralyzed brother, feet barely touching the ground as the powerful winds knocked her sideways. The storm wrenched her off balance, and she found herself thrown through the air, flying like an insect toward the stone walls. She spun around and reached out, calming herself enough to use her own abilities with the Force, to nudge her body away. Instead of being crushed against the stone blocks, she slid softly to the floor.

Luke's body continued rising, tugged upward by the hurricane. His Jedi robe wound around him as the winds spun him like a corpse launched out of a star-freighter air lock into the grave of space.

Streen didn't seem aware of what he was doing.

Leia staggered to her feet again and jumped. This time she rode the circling air currents, flying around the fringe of the cyclone toward her helpless brother. She reached out to grab the tail of his robe, felt her fingers clutch rough fabric, and then burn as the robe was snatched away from her. She fell back to the floor.

Luke had been drawn up into the tornado's mouth, rising toward the skylights.

"Luke!" she cried. "Please help me."

She had no idea if he could hear her, or if he could do anything.

Gathering strength in her leg muscles, she leaped into the air again. It might be possible to use her Jedi skills of levitation for a brief moment; Luke had done it several times, although she herself had never mastered the skill.

Now, though, it mattered more than it ever had before. As Leia sprang upward, the wind caught her. She rose high enough to grab Luke's body. She wrapped her arms around his waist, twisted her legs around his ankles, holding him, hoping her weight would drag him down.

But as they started to drop, the winds picked up in intensity, howling and roaring. Leia's skin went numb from the blinding wintry cold. They shot toward the roof of the grand audience chamber, toward the widest skylight, where jagged icicles hung like javelins.

Leia suddenly knew what Streen intended to do to them, whether consciously or unconsciously. They would be sucked out of the Great Temple, tossed high into the sky, and then allowed to crash thousands of feet to the spear-pointed branches of the jungle canopy.

The turbolift door opened. Kirana Ti charged out, followed by Tionne and Kam Solusar.

"Stop Streen!" Leia shouted.

Kirana Ti reacted instantly. She wore thin but supple red armor from the scaled hides of reptiles from Dathomir. She had been a warrior on her own world, fighting with untrained and unhoned skill in the Force, but she had also fought in physical combat as well.

Kirana Ti launched herself forward on long, muscular legs, ducking her head as she charged into the cyclonic wind that surrounded Streen. The old hermit stood entranced, spinning slowly around with his arms dangling at his sides and his fingertips spread apart, as if trying to catch something.

Kirana Ti staggered as she hit the wind, but she wrenched her head aside, spread her legs, and dug the toes of her bare feet against the stone floor for traction. She shoved forward into the wind and finally shattered through into the dead zone of the storm. She tackled Streen to the flagstoned floor and locked his arms behind his back. Streen cried out, then blinked his eyes open. He looked wildly around in confusion. Instantly the wind stopped blowing. The air fell still. High up at the ceiling of the grand audience chamber Leia and Luke plunged toward the unforgiving flagstones below. Luke fell like a doll, and Leia tried to remember how to use her levitation skills, but her mind went blank with panic.

Tionne and Kam Solusar raced forward, stretching out their arms, using what they had been taught. Less than a meter above the crushing stones, Leia found herself slowed, pausing in the air beside Luke's body. They drifted gently to the floor. Leia cradled Luke against her, but her brother did not respond.

Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Some of these powers he was able to channel through Kyp, Gantoris, and Streen to achieve his ends.

I, Jedi wrote:My thinking was that Kun, still taxed from his having funneled enough power through Streen to create that cyclone

A cyclone so powerful it could launch people thousands of feet into the air, if not crush them against stone and freeze the inside of a Temple. That's just spirit Kun after already expending a metric ton of his energy.

So not only does Kun utterly dwarf Tott achieving a more impressive feat in a far more extensive manner than the Outlander does over Arcann, but he can summon his own cyclone in a magnitudes weaker state than his prime.
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 12:15 pm
Might respond to some of this later, because there's a serious omission of context in the Outlander-related sections of the post.
AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 12:22 pm
Not really, Outlander with lethal intent goes to attack Arcann with Valk's power. The lightning flies all over, some hitting Arcann the rest kills hundreds as well as damaging the ships they are in. Then Outlander launches a second, far more focused attack that yeets Arcann and his shield. That's what happened. ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 39523600
Blade_of_Dorin
Blade_of_Dorin
Level One
Level One

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 12:37 pm
Outlander all day
avatar
Guest
Guest

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 5th 2020, 1:25 pm
The Outlander.
Geistalt
Geistalt

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 2:02 am
@DarthAnt66

LadyKulvax (possibly intentionally) omitted Praxis' Outlander vote.
AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 2:21 am
There's no reason for me to intentionally leave him out, don't stir shit.
MasterCilghal
MasterCilghal
Level Three
Level Three

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 2:32 am
Outlander for me
EmperorCaedus
EmperorCaedus
Level Three
Level Three

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 2:40 am
The Dark Man, Heir to Ragnos and Saviour of the Sith.
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Four
Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 3:13 am
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Anyone but Kun because DC and EC support him. Fuck it throw malak on there
AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 3:57 am
So, you're letting biases against other users influence your choice? How's that objective at all?
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level Two
Level Two

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 4:02 am
Outlander
xolthol
xolthol
Level Five
Level Five

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 4:05 am
The Outlander
Gianfi
Gianfi

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 4:24 am
Yeah please, let's try to make the list the most accurate as it can be based on feats, not our liking or disliking of certain users
The Fallen Warrior
The Fallen Warrior
Level Four
Level Four

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 6:02 am
Revan is on the list. It's too late for accuracy
BreakofDawn
BreakofDawn
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 8:42 am
The idea that this list is at all objective is pretty bizarre.
NevesYtneves (DC77)
NevesYtneves (DC77)
Level Seven
Level Seven

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

April 6th 2020, 8:53 am
Kun.
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★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander - Page 4 Empty Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #12 - Alliance Commander

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