Outlander and Unchained Vaylin vs Yoda

You do realize I was just trying to encourage him, right?

Geistalt of Gehenna back at it again.

Geistalt wrote:You do realize I was just trying to encourage him, right?

You do realize I was just trying to get you to break out of your shell and debate instead of cheerleading, right?

Hint: Don't tell people to ignore me because I don't agree with your loose definition of a definitive paradigm.

I don't debate. I don't have the patience, nor do I care enough about any individual SW character to have the diligence to actually put together a 2,000+ character essay for why my character(s) beat yours.

Not like you or anyone else can forcibly persuade him to believe HoT is greater than or equal to TPM Yoda, so just let him be happy relying on those quotes.

Geistalt wrote:I don't debate. I don't have the patience, nor do I care enough to have the diligence to actually put together a 2,000+ character essay for why my character(s) beat yours.

Not like you or anyone else can forcibly persuade him to believe HoT is greater than or equal to TPM Yoda, so just let him be happy relying on those quotes.

so you're essentially saying that nobody should question anybody's position? Great idea for a debating forum 

Yep; give up.

Why is the Hero bound under TPM Yoda and Windu? IU quotes are not entirely reliable (and certainly not infallible or definitive), and there is nothing to substantiate TPM Mace and Yoda being on par with or above the Hero outside of those quotes. Furthermore, the idea that the Outlander as of KOTFE Chapter 12 (and even arguably as of KOTFE Chapter 3) after:

Can you prove to me that the Fact File is, in fact, an in-universe source? Because as far as I'm aware, it isn't, and Fact File 11 states the following:


"Alongside Mace Windu, with whom he served on the Jedi Council, Yoda was the most respected and most powerful Master ever to have walked the corridors of the Jedi Temple."

Even still, the Outlander is bound as an inferior to RotS Yoda as well, with Yoda being described in the RotS novelization as the most "devastatingly powerful foe" to ever fight against the Dark Side.

"Finally, he saw the truth.

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known... just-didn't-have it."

Even if the Outlander isn't a Jedi, this quote umbrellas over light side users and enemies of the Dark Side in general. Regardless of how you look at it, the Outlander is Yoda's inferior.

- Embracing a new force philosophy that is explicitly distinct from the Jedi

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I don't recall the Outlander ever abandoning the tenets of the Jedi Order and adopting a whole new philosophy on the Force. I mean, it has admittedly been quote a long while since I played through KotFE or KotET, but even still, changing an outlook on the Force isn't indicative of abandoning all previous beliefs. There are plenty of Jedi who remained Jedi without sticking terribly close to traditional Jedi doctrine. So honestly, unless you can actually provide a quote, clip, or other source that confirms beyond a reasonable doubt that the Outlander left the Jedi Order, the only ground you have to stand on is sand.


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Losing all ties to the Jedi order (the jedi order doesn't even exist at this point, and the Hero is not a part of it)

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Since when is the Order not officially existing anymore grounds for its one-time members not being Jedi anymore? Were Obi-Wan, Yoda, Quinlan Vos, K'Kruhk, Shaak Ti, Rahm Kota, Kazdan Paratus, An'ya Kuro, and all the other Jedi who survived the purge not Jedi anymore because the Order no longer existed? Immediately after the conclusion of the Revanite Crisis, the Hero was named Battlemaster of the Order, wore that title through the events of "Rise of the Emperor", and then, as far as I am aware, never officially or verbally abandoned that title or the Jedi Order as a whole. So this comes back around to what I said previously. Unless there is concrete proof that the Outlander was no longer a Jedi in any capacity, the best you can throw at me is speculation and opinion.


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Is still a Jedi is up to you to prove. The Hero does not have to explicitly state "I am not a jedi" for us to use some context clues to determine that he is not (and certainly not definitively). At best you can say "maybe he is still a Jedi," but that's not much of an argument.

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Well, since you asked nicely.

The Outlander can choose to join the Republic and return to the Jedi Order, if that decision is made, they return as the first member of a new Jedi High Council, and as the Order's Battlemaster. Now, sure, it can't be proven that this is the "canon" path, but it also can't be proven that it isn't the canon path either, it's a fully plausible option, and thus potentially gives the Fact File far more weight.

Start at about the 3:10 mark and continue on through to the end.


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