Anakin & Obi-Wan vs. Dooku - Full Fight

DarthAnt66 wrote:I might have missed it, but can I see the MFV > IHA quote from Kenobi?

The Movie Storybook quote

Can someone post the quote? With a lot of these comparisons to Mustafar Vader, we need to distinguish whether the power in question refers to raw strength in the Force, which didn't decrease, or something like combat-applicable powers, which were where Vader did decline.

The two struggled but Anakin had grown too strong. Obi Wan was forced to release Anakin's weapon.

-Revenge of the Sith Movie Storybook

Obi Wan has not seen Zonakin so he can't say that MF Vader>Zonakin but obviously it goes on any version of Anakin before that. Obviously Obi Wan refers to combat applicable force strength since that is what is being talked about here, during this battle

That sounds like it's referring to physical strength, though of course that's backed by your strength in the Force. It's an interesting quote, although other sources describing the same instance attribute it to Anakin's mechanical arm rather than his strength in the Force. And I'm not sure the comparison is necessarily to when Obi-Wan last saw Anakin as opposed to when he last fought Anakin, as in a spar. If we take the RotS novel, Anakin would've certainly been able to perform the same feat at the beginning of the novel anyway.  

I'm not sure why there's so much emphasis being placed on Dooku finding Obi-Wan's speed "blinding", by the way. Anakin couldn't even register Sidious and Mace's movements, but he's on their level. Obi-Wan wasn't even able to mentally comprehend Grievous' speed, but was beating him anyway. Not to mention that the novel makes it quite clear that Dooku's false expectations could claim most of the responsibility for his astonishment. And where does Dooku call Obi-Wan's speed "blinding" after that?

"Having to account for [a teammate's] moves" is not necessarily a disadvantage, either. Obi-Wan and Anakin are repeatedly stated to be perfectly synergistic, knowing each other like complementary halves, etc. It's ridiculous that their combined force could be described as anything but a straight-up advantage. And Anakin wasn't even being knocked out prior to Dooku's incapacitation of Obi-Wan in anything except the RotS novel... which we ought to remember is hardly the only version of the fight.

Nova wrote:That sounds like it's referring to physical strength, though of course that's backed by your strength in the Force. It's an interesting quote, although other sources describing the same instance attribute it to Anakin's mechanical arm rather than his strength in the Force. And I'm not sure the comparison is necessarily to when Obi-Wan last saw Anakin as opposed to when he last fought Anakin, as in a spar. If we take the RotS novel, Anakin would've certainly been able to perform the same feat at the beginning of the novel anyway.  

I'm not sure why there's so much emphasis being placed on Dooku finding Obi-Wan's speed "blinding", by the way. Anakin couldn't even register Sidious and Mace's movements, but he's on their level. Obi-Wan wasn't even able to mentally comprehend Grievous' speed, but was beating him anyway. Not to mention that the novel makes it quite clear that Dooku's false expectations could claim most of the responsibility for his astonishment. And where does Dooku call Obi-Wan's speed "blinding" after that?

"Having to account for [a teammate's] moves" is not necessarily a disadvantage, either. Obi-Wan and Anakin are repeatedly stated to be perfectly synergistic, knowing each other like complementary halves, etc. It's ridiculous that their combined force could be described as anything but a straight-up advantage. And Anakin wasn't even being knocked out prior to Dooku's incapacitation of Obi-Wan in anything except the RotS novel... which we ought to remember is hardly the only version of the fight.

That's what the quote is described as obviously. It's not so much as when Obi Wan last saw him, as much as when Obi Wan last felt his power. And it is obviously his power that is being referred to there. The physical domination is simply the result of the extra strength that is in turn a result of his extra connection to the force. It is clear that Obi Wan thinks that Anakin's force strength has grown too much. Which is the gist.

Anyways, you have the Junior Novel where Obi Wan again says that MF Vader is more deadly than Anakin in combat.

You also have this:

Obi-Wan tracked his former friend to the planet Mustafar. Full of anger, Vader attacked Obi-Wan. The Jedi Master was a legendary fighter, but so was Anakin, and now he had the power of the dark side of the force.

-Dk Obi Wan Kenobi, Jedi Knight

Making it clear that the dark side only gave him an advantage in force strength over his former self on a combative situation. Because Zonakin and KF Vader have turned to the dark side, the quote does not put Anakin above them, but again, it is made very clear that combatively, the dark side only gave him an advantage. Thus, MF Vader>Anakin

Yeah, but there's a difference between seeing that speed on others and actually encountering that speed in combat. Not sure that Obi Wan couldn't understand Grevious's speed, that is likely hyperbolic narration of Grevious by the author meant to glorify him, not sure that that was Obi Wan's pov actually

Like I said, both are stated to have the best teamwork as of the TCW movie, but even late TCW both are objectively stated to do better alone than in a team. And no, the movie has Dooku being repulsed by Anakin before he chokes Obi Wan.

The movie storybook on ROTS actually is quite neat b/w you should breeze through it if you get the chance. Among other things it confirms that Yoda, Mace and Obi Wan were the leading Jedi Masters in the Order. Also more tidbits on the battle against Grevious

Nova wrote:That sounds like it's referring to physical strength, though of course that's backed by your strength in the Force. It's an interesting quote, although other sources describing the same instance attribute it to Anakin's mechanical arm rather than his strength in the Force. And I'm not sure the comparison is necessarily to when Obi-Wan last saw Anakin as opposed to when he last fought Anakin, as in a spar. If we take the RotS novel, Anakin would've certainly been able to perform the same feat at the beginning of the novel anyway.  

I'm not sure why there's so much emphasis being placed on Dooku finding Obi-Wan's speed "blinding", by the way. Anakin couldn't even register Sidious and Mace's movements, but he's on their level. Obi-Wan wasn't even able to mentally comprehend Grievous' speed, but was beating him anyway. Not to mention that the novel makes it quite clear that Dooku's false expectations could claim most of the responsibility for his astonishment. And where does Dooku call Obi-Wan's speed "blinding" after that?

"Having to account for [a teammate's] moves" is not necessarily a disadvantage, either. Obi-Wan and Anakin are repeatedly stated to be perfectly synergistic, knowing each other like complementary halves, etc. It's ridiculous that their combined force could be described as anything but a straight-up advantage. And Anakin wasn't even being knocked out prior to Dooku's incapacitation of Obi-Wan in anything except the RotS novel... which we ought to remember is hardly the only version of the fight.

Dooku initially took advantage of the fact that they were together by playing them in one another’s way iirc.

@LOTL: Hm, I have some issues with that quote.

The quote's underlying implication is that Anakin had "grown too strong" physically relative to a time when Anakin could not physically overpower Obi-Wan. The quote doesn't make sense otherwise -- you wouldn't say a boxer had "grown too strong" for you compared to a day ago when he could still cream you. And if Obi-Wan found himself in that same context at the start of ROTS, he would have still said Anakin had "grown too strong" for him, given Anakin was already "the strongest Jedi" alive and utterly pummeled Dooku to bits. Obi-Wan can't match that. He's thinking back to an earlier time when he could have.

Vader stomps all 3

DarthAnt66 wrote:I might have missed it, but can I see the MFV > IHA quote from Kenobi?

Yes I would VERY much like to see this quote

In-sidiousvader wrote:Vader stomps all 3

Duh