Exar Kun vs Darth Tenebrous

Greysentinel365 wrote:Zannah is stated to be more powerful IIRC. You're also forgetting that Zannah had years of training Cognus to improve after the point where she defeated Bane.

No, she isn't. She quite clearly ponders if she could ever surpass him. In their actual fights, without external aid, Bane comes out on-top every time.

Well no, you can't argue huge power growths between each generation, but we do go from Bane struggling to maintain a 10m death field next to a Sith temple to Plagueis casually atomising Jedi-killing assassins in waves while suffering cardiac arrest and too weak to summon lightning.

Bane has the Lehon temple feat which is quite easily better than pretty much every feat we hear of right until Plagueis and Tenebrous themselves if you want it played that way. In fact, their ability to hold up those boulders is probably the first feat genuinely comparable to the Bane feat and that was just PoD Bane.

That's my point. After 30 generations he should be a complete mook. But neither comparisons nor any of the Sith up to Sheev believe such.

We're talking about a 1000 year gap between Bane and Plagueis/Sidious, along with half of the Banite archives being destroyed. So yeah, there's probably going to be an air of Legend around Bane, which is what we see via Plagueis' musings of him.

I don't really disagree that Banite scaling is overplayed a lot, I'm just here to solidify that each generation did result in an increase in power, and that there's what? 30 power increases? I don't think Plagueis and Sidious really apply to Banite scaling anyway. It's more of a secondary argument.

Meatpants wrote:I don't think Plagueis and Sidious really apply to Banite scaling anyway.

??

Ah, what I meant to say was that Banite scaling is a foundation, but Plagueis scales so far beyond Tenebrous that it kinda becomes irrelevant to Sidious in the long run. The two stand on their own merits, where Tenebrous for example hardly can.

Yes, I agree with that. Banite scaling isn't necessary for them, but it's a nice supplement.

LadyKulvax wrote:Bane has the Lehon temple feat which is quite easily better than pretty much every feat we hear of right until Plagueis and Tenebrous themselves if you want it played that way. In fact, their ability to hold up those boulders is probably the first feat genuinely comparable to the Bane feat and that was just PoD Bane.

That's my point. After 30 generations he should be a complete mook. But neither comparisons nor any of the Sith up to Sheev believe such.

Maybe because no Sith is explored to the extent that they can have any legitimate ones? Meanwhile, among the Sith that are mentioned , only just, you have people mounting cocoons around entire fortresses, people manipulating time, people piercing the light side bubble created by the complete Jedi Order etc.

Do note that these are just small mentions to the sense that, these people being mentioned was just because they did things that were pivotal to the Sith. When you have such notable showings, in such small mentions to the Sith in books, is it not an indication that they are that good?

Just think, should they have made one entire book on Gravid? How many feats do you think you can get in that considering that the insane version has a feat that is already quite possibly, much better than Bane's? What about Tenebrous's master bursting the bubble? Do you think that had they made books on these Sith, that they wouldn't have gotten amazing showings that could be much better than Bane?

So to bring this back to topic, would someone care to explain to me what feats Tenebrous has (with proper sources) that are beyond or even equal to what Exar Kun boasts?

Because if it's fortress-sized Force shields, well colour me unimpressed when Thon can contain an entire planetary nexus and all of its spirits by himself with a Wall of Light. He's at best, equal to Vodo or Odan-Urr.

Scaling from the mind control of Lord Kaan? The likes of King Ommin was dominating a planet with dark side power through the boon of Nadd's spirit. A planet that was full of dark side practitioners. Aleema Keto does the same without Nadd's aid on a planet also full of dark siders.

Lehon Temple feat scaling? Tott Doneeta buffetted a super typhoon sized desert storm that could reduce a person to dust on contact due to the heat. He would get one-shotted by Ulic. Who at best was an equal for Vodo, assuming a lot of growth after Coruscant.

The light side bubble popping? Well not only do we have to rely on the third-person limited perspective of characters in the book to believe it ever happened. But Exar Kun is directly attributed to be responsible for a 'torrent' of the dark side that only ended when Kun was taken out:

Exar Kun, Star Wars Databank wrote:Before Vader, before Maul, before Sidious... there was a Dark Lord of the Sith that cast a shadow of terror and destruction across the galaxy. The ancient forces of the Republic and the Jedi banded together to stop the torrent of the dark side, and bring an end to Exar Kun's rule.

Tenebrous is galaxy level, and per your own admission, Kun isn't even solar system level. Tenebrous one-shots, kriff fight.

The Apprentice wrote:Tenebrous is galaxy level, and per your own admission, Kun isn't even solar system level. Tenebrous one-shots, kriff fight.

Brb, need to make a Marvel's Odin vs Tenebrous thread on Comicvine. Battle of the galaxy level beings.

Tenebrous isn't galaxy level, kek. Something I just addressed in my post. Care to make a contribution that isn't literally vomiting words onto our screens?

Lol, good argument. The statements don't matter cause they're IU! I concede you've destroyed all of Tenebrous's wank AP, I will bow before his lordship Exar Kunt.

@The Apprentice That's 'Kun the Omnipotent' to you, heathen.

I addressed each available feat. Make an actual reply or concede, your horse manure not withstanding.

There's nothing to respond to. You essentially hand waved the galaxy bubble feat by screeching "IU!" without actually going into any detail as to why that makes the sources on the feat unreliable. Make a proper argument next time and I might respond.

Once again, GALAXYLEVEL!TENEBROUS one-shots.

I screeched nothing you lobotomy patient. I pointed out, not handwaved, that there's such a thing as character bias and it needs to be recognised.

I also provided the fact Kun represented a torrent of the dark side as counter to it.

So stop with your showboating and immature kriff and actually reply or just shut up.

Kun's feats are more impressive than the galaxy bubble feat per Plagueis HP. Sooo....

@LadyKulvax

I screeched nothing you lobotomy patient.

I pointed out, not handwaved, that there's such a thing as character bias and it needs to be recognised.

Once again, this point has less explanation than Zori's sudden character changes in TROS. How does character bias influence the statements, and how exactly did you come to the conclusion they're biased in the first place?

I also provided the fact Kun represented a torrent of the dark side as counter to it.

And despite this feat you've admitted Kun isn't solar system level, so if Tenebrous is galaxy level Kun still takes a massive L.  

So stop with your showboating and immature kriff and actually reply or just shut up.

I don't know why you think I'm going to give a serious response when all of my previous comments have been obvious trolling.

1.Because literally all of the evidence for the feat comes from the third-person limited perspective of the novel? It's the same reason all of you won't take Tulak Hord's feats seriously. Because Khem Val is liable for bias and he can't be taken as seriously as actually seeing those feats firsthand.

2.Me not taking BreakofDawn's mockery seriously is no judgement on my stances.

3.And you wonder why everyone prefers DC.

I've got no interest in sub-Carthage trash.

@LadyKulvax

1.Because literally all of the evidence for the feat comes from the third-person limited perspective of the novel?

I'm tired, so I'm gonna sleep. I might write out something more extensive TOMORROW, but can't right now due to lack of diluting juice and DarthCaedusDad yelling at me to go to sleep. Sorry, I'll just link this Google Doc thread:

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t348p75-outlander-vs-maul-savage-opress

You were already destroyed you on the topic, and I don't feel the urge to rehash the whole debate.

It's the same reason all of you won't take Tulak Hord's fats seriously. Because Khem Val is liable for bias and he can't be taken as seriously as actually seeing those feats firsthand.

When have I ever said I don't take Hord's feats seriously? Back in 2018-mid 2019 maybe, but that's all in the past. I accept Hord into my heart now (INB4 you start scaling Kun>>Hord>1000 Jedi).

2.Me not taking BreakofDawn's mockery seriously is no judgement on my stances.

I mean how isn't it? You responded to his mocking by clarifying that you don't think Kun is solar system level and that he (BoD) is exaggerating. The fact that you didn't take BoD's mocking seriously doesn't really change this. Unless you're admitting to lying again AP, which would be dreadful for your reputation?

3.And you wonder why everyone prefers DC.

Ah, yes. Everyone prefers DC because I troll you, that must be it. I really should stop being so mean.

I've got no interest in sub-Carthage trash.

Your continued responses suggest otherwise.

If by destroyed, you mean Quarian can't tell when a narrator is internal character musing? Interesting.

You seem to have a knack for linking to my other, far older debates in an attempt to mock rather than actually doing something on your own credit and time.

But this is all besides the point, even if I throw you the benefit of the doubt. The galaxy bubble popping is countered by Kun being literally the cause of a torrent of the dark side. So who gives a kriff?

BreakofDawn claims that I think Kun scales off of a supernova. Which I obviously don't. Kun does have a galactic-scale Force scream(twice), causing a dark side torrent and galactic scale Force senses. Not to mention scaling off of Nihilus who has galactic-scale drain.

So Kun, in a few ways, is indeed galactic scale.

3.And you wonder why everyone prefers DC.

Like this POV, I do.

@LadyKulvax

If by destroyed, you mean Quarian can't tell when a narrator is internal character musing? Interesting.

??? If this point is so easy to address then why didn't you respond to it? You literally ignored his point in your next few responses, leading me to no other conclusion other than the fact that you got destroyed.

You seem to have a knack for linking to my other, far older debates in an attempt to mock rather than actually doing something on your own credit and time.

Linking older debates is so much easier and more fun though.  

But this is all besides the point, even if I throw you the benefit of the doubt. The galaxy bubble popping is countered by Kun being literally the cause of a torrent of the dark side. So who gives a kriff?

How is that remotely comparable? Once again, you've gone into absolutely no detail.

BreakofDawn claims that I think Kun scales off of a supernova. Which I obviously don't.

BoD isn't being serious. Moreover, that doesn't mean you weren't being serious in your response to him, in fact, the rest of your post is a legitimate rebuttal. So, according to you, you wrote out a totally legitimate rebuttal, and then outright lied saying you don't think Kun is solar system level to save face against BoD, yet are admitting to it now? That's some suspect insight and really makes me question how I can take anything you say in this discussion seriously.

Kun does have a galactic-scale Force scream(twice), causing a dark side torrent and galactic scale Force senses. Not to mention scaling off of Nihilus who has galactic-scale drain.

So Kun, in a few ways, is indeed galactic scale.

Citation needed for pretty much all of this.

@The Apprentice This trolling is cringe, everything you've posted has been unbearable so stick to the topic. Instead of waiting for a proper Kun case, make one for Tenebrous.