Exar Kun vs Darth Tenebrous

LadyKulvax wrote:

EmperorCaedus wrote:

Wizards of the Coast: Darth Malak wrote:An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?

States as clearly superior to Kun. I don’t care if you don’t like the source, it is what it is.

Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Handbook wrote:It is clear from the duel [Qui Gon vs Darth Maul] that the sith are alive and more powerful than ever before.

Clearly states that the first return of the Sith (Maul) is more powerful than ever before. KotOR and before is included in this quote, while the Revan novel and SWTOR are excluded due to Ant’s shedding limitations. Which means Maul is >> Malak.

I literally just debunked the quote and you've just thrown the quote into my face as if that changes anything. But fine, let's read the quote shall we?



Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure that it was Malak who betrayed Revan. Thus, Malak has no reason to be outraged at all. Unlike as is claimed by the article. Furthermore, the article isn't even aware of the Star Forge.

So not only do we have a source that is either wrong or straight up ignorant. We have a source that no longer exists because it was replaced, as is noted by Cory J. Herndon himself:

Cory Herndon on Twitter wrote:since that supplement is no longer even available in its original form, whatever the current official stance is would be the correct one.

Now whilst we could wax poetic beyond the aforementioned statement and include the following, that the most recent gameplay stats are correct:

Cory Herndon on Twitter wrote:If there exist hard, LFL-approved stats that say otherwise about Kun and Malak, follow those.

Which, in case you're wondering is clear from the KotOR:CG[size=39]:[/size]

KotOR: Campaign Guide wrote:

[size=37]Darth Malak, Sith Magnus Statistics (CL 20)
[/size]

[size=37]
[size=36]Medium Human  Jedi  7/Jedi Knight  5/Sith Apprentice  4/Sith Lord  4[/size]

[size=36]Destiny Points : 2; Force Points : 8; Dark Side Score : 15[/size]
[/size]

KotOR: Campaign Guide wrote:

[size=37]Exar Kun, Dark Lord of the Sith Statistics (CL 20)
[/size]

[size=37]
[size=36]Medium Human  Jedi  7/Jedi Knight  3/Sith Apprentice  5/Sith Lord  5[/size]

[size=36]Destiny Points : 3; Force Points : 8; Dark Side Score : 15[/size]
[/size]

Or moreover, we have the fact that both of Malak's replacement descriptions make absolutely no mention of anything to do with Exar Kun:

Champions of the Force Preview 5 wrote:[size=32]Darth Malak: Four thousand years before the creation of the Empire, the Republic faced many enemies and endured many wars. When the Mandalorians attacked the Republic, the Jedi were split -- join the fighting or stay out of it?[/size]
[size=32]Ultimately, two Jedi ignored the will of the Jedi Council and plunged into battle. Revan and Malak led the Republic forces; the former provided clever tactics, and the latter was relentless and reckless in combat. The two pursued their enemies into the Unknown Regions. They returned as Sith Lords backed by a huge military force from an unknown source.[/size]
[size=32]Darth Malak started as an apprentice but soon became the master. With the Sith forces at his command, he tore through the Republic, razing entire planets. His success was short lived, however, and he fell to an unexpected enemy.[/size]

Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide wrote:[size=32]Darth Malak was not always a model Dark Lord. He was once a compassionate Jedi Knight. In fact, Republic citizens' sufferings so move the young Jedi Alex Squinquargesimus during the Mandalorian Wars that he rebels-along with his good friend Revan-against the Jedi Council's decree of inaction. The young Jedi helps recruit thousands of Jedi to spearhead the war against he Mandalorians, and they drive back the invaders. Yet sweeping victories correspond all too frequently with proportionately devastating moral compromises. Day by day, Alex perceives himself sliding toward the dark side, but sees no alternative. The horrors of war are not a mystery, and he knew he would face this dilemma.[/size]
[size=32]Just as he intends, Alek saves the galaxy. Victorious against the Mandalorians, he realizes that all his efforts may be for naught if a strong hand does not steer the galaxy. In actuality, besides himself, he knows he can trust only the soldiers he had fought alongside, because they are capable defenders. Sharing these thoughts with Revan, Alek finds his brother-in-arms agrees.[/size]
[size=32]Now Alex understands the dark side. It is named from ignorance: the ignorance of never having killed, or never having ordered friends to their deaths, of always thinking today is your day to die-all for wards, unwilling to fight for their own safety-and ignorance of what it means to wield so much power. Revan, or course, understands completely.[/size]
[size=32]After the Mandalorian Wars, Alek and Revan subsume themselves in Korriban and Malachor V's Sith occultism and use the Star Forge super weapon to churn out war material almost limitless. Alek then becomes Darth Malak of the remade Sith Empire, apprentice to Darth Revan. The Republic conquest initially goes well, but in time, Malak ses Lord Revan as soft, resulting in a tension that culminates in a lightsaber duel; Malak loses his lower jaw to Revan's blade, necessitating a metallic jaw guard. Returning the favor, Malak fires on Revan's flagship. Unaware that the Jedi have captured the traitor, Malak assumes the crown of ruling Dark Lord, inheriting the empire. With Admiral Saul Karath, Malak's fleet spreads terror and he cultivates Darth Bandon and Bastila Shan as his pupils. However, Malak faces Revan again, this time as a reconditioned Jedi. In the rematch, Malak's twisted dream of protecting the galaxy dies with him.[/size]

But better yet, we have the actual KotOR games and  source material. Which came out after said article, and establishes that SF!Bastila Shan is on par with the likes of Vrook Lamar:

Bastila Shan, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:[size=37]"The Dark Side has made me stronger than I ever was before! I have a greater command of the Force than all but the most powerful Jedi masters."[/size]

Those Jedi Masters pretty clearly involve Vrook Lamar:

Bastila Shan, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:Even the Sith would think twice before attacking Dantooine. There are many Jedi here, including several of the most powerful Masters of the Order. There is great strength within this place.

As well as Zez Kai-Ell and Kavar, who can teach the Force form Force Mastery:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:It is a great technique that you have learned. Gifted only to the highest of Jedi Masters - and the Sith - this technique makes your Force powers more difficult to resist... and they will last longer as well. 

So it's pretty clear, that Bastila Shan per her own admission, on the Star Forge, is only as powerful as the aforementioned Jedi Masters, individually. Yet Bastila Shan very clearly gives Revan a good fight:

Knights of the Old Republic Official Prima Game Guide wrote:Combat is fraught and frantic, but [ends with Revan's] victory.

To such a degree that she can afford to simultaneously close a giant Rakatan door with a 'great' amount of power:

Knights of the Old Republic wrote:This door is held closed by some great power.

So if this incarnation of Bastila is only as powerful as those Jedi Masters are individually, then Traya must dwarf her in power as she was powerful enough to simultaneously Sever Force and Triumvirate Drain all three at once:

SWTOR Codex Entry wrote:Part of Kreia’s plan involved decimating the Jedi Order. On Dantooine, Kreia severed Masters Vrook Lmar, Kavar, and Zez-Kai Ell from the Force, killing them within the Jedi Enclave.

So not only was Traya more powerful than all three combined, she managed to absorb their power. Yet Darth Traya is not as powerful as Darth Nihilus, by a considerable margin by Traya's own admission:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:“One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."

Better yet, we know for a fact that the dark side only gained in power after Malak had died and the Star Forge destroyed due to Darth Nihilus's rise in power:



In fact, if you wanted a direct comparison, the dark side shroud is even stronger during the Dark Wars than it is during the Jedi Civil War

[size=37]Bastila wrote:We should have felt a disturbance in the Force when the attack came. The fact that we did not is a bad sign. I fear the dark side is growing stronger, casting shadows our vision cannot piece."[/size]

[size=37]Bastila wrote:"Did you feel that? A disturbance in the Force. The Admiral has sent is message, the Dark Lord knows we are here now. Malak is coming... We better get moving. I can feel the darkness of Malak's presence approaching, and I don't want to be here when he arrives. None of us is a match for the Sith Lord."[/size]

[size=39]In the Dark Wars, the dark side didn't just cloud the fact that Darth Nihilus, one of the most powerful Sith of all-time, was approaching:[/size]

[size=37]The Conclave At Katarr Codex Entry wrote:Worse, many Jedi sensed a new Sith threat emerging but could not pinpoint the source. Finally, the Jedi Council called a conclave on the Miraluka colony of Katarr. The order’s Masters, including the legendary Vandar Tokare, gathered to discuss the possibility that the Sith had returned. They did not know that Darth Nihilus, a being of pure hunger and dark side power, was approaching the colony.[/size]

[size=39]But it was literally strong enough that it caused palpable terror across the Republic so potent the Sith could feed on it:[/size]

[size=37]The Essential Atlas wrote:The Sith seemed to have achieved the victory they had long sought. Less than one hundred Jedi, nearly all of them in hiding, survived the Sith's purge. Many citizens took this unimaginable event as proof that the Force had turned malevolent, or that cosmic balance was nothing more than a story for children. Despair was palpable, and many planets offered only halfhearted and ragged defense against Sith attackers. Planets throughout the slice surrendered, and the Sith fed on the psychic misery of a shattered Republic.[/size]

Yet we know that Darth Nihilus is essentially confirmed to be below or at best on par with Freedon Nadd. Firstly, Visas Marr who is Nihilus's Shadow Hand, deems Nadd 'truly great' merely by sensing his tomb's power:

Visas Marr, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:I can taste the power of the dark side here. Freedon Nadd must have been truly great to leave such an impact. The echoes of his life are still here."

Kreia states that she fears Nihilus might already be as powerful as some of the ancients whom Nadd is one of the greatest among:

Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"It is a technique that has been lost for some time. Not seen in the days since the ancient Sith. They can use it to consume other force sensitives... The blind seer, her master harnessed this technique and he is rapidly approaching the height of its power. I fear he may even rival some of the ancient Sith."

She knows this because she has studied the Telos holocrons:

Chris Avellone wrote:"Kreia is setting the stage for what we imagined KOTOR3 to be, and as we had a sense for the power that we wanted those Sith Lords to reveal, her predictions are accurate. And yes, she had a number of Sith holocrons that she had read (the ones on Telos)."

But the Triumvirate is actively attempting to resurrect Freedon Nadd:

Sith Captain, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:[size=37]"The Sith Master says we'll have reinforcements soon, when I ask for details he says it's a 'surprise'. I hate the ones with a sense of humor."[/size]

In fact, the Triumvirate is directly after Freedon Nadd's power indicating they're basically, including Nihilus, just his new cult:

Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords Official Prima Game Guide wrote:Whether because you want to deny them Freedon Nadd's power or because you refuse to share it with anyone else, you have no choice but to fight.

It's pretty damn clear that the actual KotOR 1&2 source material has (Exar Kun >>) Freedon Nadd > Darth Nihilus > Darth Malak. Source material which is more up to date than an article which was deleted and removed in face of a replacement.

LadyKulvax wrote:I've been debating using mobile for years, BS excuse is BS.

IdrisianGraecus wrote:The only difference is that I’m 14 and kriff at debating on mobile you re-tard.

Fuc-king as-shole  behavior is fuc-king as-should behavior.

LadyKulvax wrote:IG was drafted into the Indian military and beaten to death with rocks by Chinese soldiers.

Shimrra wrote:Kun is sub-Bane, so Tenebrous wins

Shimrra wrote:Kun is sub-Bane, so Tenebrous wins

Shimrra wrote:Kun is sub-Bane, so Tenebrous wins

Shimrra wrote:Kun is sub-Bane, so Tenebrous wins

Shimrra wrote:Kun is sub-Bane, so Tenebrous wins