Exar Kun vs Darth Malak

LadyKulvax wrote:Except Traya's giga-drain is quite literally something you can't defend against. It's a very potent technique by itself. Regardless of how powerful the wielder is.

Malak doesn't win because he's not 'far greater' than a canonically Sheev tier combatant per a good six sources.

Heritage of the Sith is not an in-universe source, it is written as if in-universe, but the source itself is stated to be a 'definitive' source of information on the Sith.

It contains information that no one in-universe could know.

More importantly, it obviously knows what it is talking about because Drew Karpyshyn wrote it.

I said the powers i.e. knowledge/techniques gained are far greater because the Star Forge is the holy grail of Rakatan Force-powered tech.

But as I made clear, every primary source on the matter prioritises Malak's ability to keep draining life-force and essentially achieve virtual immortality.

Enhanced Force Powers -- Using a mysterious power source as yet undiscovered (complete Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic to learn more), Darth Malak possesses extraordinary dark side Force powers out of proportion, in game terms, with his class and level. He gained three additional Force feats and 24 bonus skill points exclusively for dark side skills. In any battle, the first Force point Darth Malak spends on a dark side-related roll does not subtract from his total.

The problem is that you are saying we should automatically assume that 'powers' means Malak's Force power.

The question is simple, does a cybernetic life-support system amplify your Force powers? Obviously, not. Does hidden armor? Again obviously, not. So how does your interpretation make sense? Mine does.

Furthermore, why would it repeat itself in the same paragraph when it's already referred to his own power separately literally a sentence prior and described it as 'devastating'?

Why bother listing Freedon Nadd when Exar Kun is much more powerful, rendering Nadd redundant? 

The references are to the Star Forge, and the main plot-twist to the final boss of the Star Forge, per both Malak and the Databank, is Malak's newly-revealed ability to drain Jedi and gain their life force to replace what he loses in battle. Then the references to the possible explanations of life-support, hidden armor and physical enhancement via Sith alchemy as being responsible culprits, throughout the article, is clearly a reference designed not to spoil the end plot twist. But to still reflect and implement this within the character's adaptation to this game.

Malak doesn't still win, because it essentially delays the inevitable.

No, 'threat' does not equate to 'who would win in a fight. It is a blanket statement about being the biggest enemy the galaxy has faced in 20,000 years. But perhaps more importantly, the quote is practically a reworded restatement of this classic quote from the same source:

Star Wars Omnibus: Tales of the Jedi Volume 2 wrote:Odan-Urr goes to the Force and the darkest power in the galaxy walks away with something that will make him even stronger.

Beyond your incredulous appeals to a no-limits fallacy, as far as I can see, the quote is merely designed to say that as of 2008 the guy is still a big deal just as he was when the comics first came out. Kun's a big victim of power creep, but in 2008 they twice went out of their way to establish him as the primary powerhouse of his time via this Omnibus and the TCSWE entry for him.

Oh and the Empire wasn't only maybe aware of it at the time, they knew about all four Rakatan stations as they discovered them all in the first place:

Oh and given all indications in terms of feats, standings, accolades and scalings, there's a strong argument to be made for Kun > Vitiate at this time anyway. Vitiate doesn't even get a proper quote confirming that he may be > Kun until 350 years after Kun's ascension and imprisonment.

I could go on about all the reasons why Kun > Vitiate is very plausible, but I'd prefer to save time.

1. If Exar Kun could overcome the Star Forge's haxx, that haxx would be labeled "far greater than" Exar Kun.
   
2. The article gives Malak additional Force abilities because of the Star Forge amp.
   
3. You think "powers" in the context of Force abilities can't refer to Force power, but "threat" and "darkest power" must be referring to Force power despite being significantly vaguer.
   

Jedi Academy Vol.3: Champions of the Force wrote:If Kyp could face this final test, Luke would know he'd passed through the fire of his testing-tempered by forces as dire and powerful as those Luke himself had endured.

Specters of the Past wrote:There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him. And laughing.

New Rebellion wrote:[size=32]The presence had neared. It was strong in the dark side. He could feel the ripples, feel a power he hadn't felt in a living being since he encountered the Emperor. Luke had never had a student that powerful, of that he was certain.[/size]


[size=32]****[/size]


She [Leia] wished she had the same certainty. This Kueller had more Force capability than anyone she had encountered in years. Except Exar Kun, and he had been a spirit. Kueller was alive.

Tom Veitch wrote:Yes, Exar Kun was as powerful as Palpatine

Oxford wrote:the use of specialized equipment to maintain a person's essential physical functions when they are very ill or in an environment such as space or under water.

Databank wrote:The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Given you have the mental maturity of a 5 year old toddler one would question your presence here if you're upset with "kids" being present. Elm ragdolling.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Given you have the mental maturity of a 5 year old toddler one would question your presence here if you're upset with "kids" being present. Elm ragdolling.

My entire point with the Traya notion is that having a far more potent power to use in combat does not mean you're actually more powerful.

Ancient Rakatan Computer, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:The Star Forge is the glory of the Builders, the apex of their Infinite Empire.

Ancient Rakatan Computer wrote:In your terminology, the Star Forge is a tool of the dark side. It corrupts those who use it so that it can generate greater and greater amounts of negative energy to fuel itself. The Builders thought they were strong enough to control this effect, but they were wrong. They became victims of their own creation, and eventually their hatred turned them against each other. Civil war destroyed the Infinite Empire - a lesson to remember. Only one who is immensely strong in mind can harness the power of the Star Forge without suffering a similar fate.

LadyKulvax wrote:Malak's arsenal of powers, that are not strictly bound to combative feats, are far greater than Exar Kun's. Is by no means a reason Malak wins over-all. Being genuinely more powerful equates to Kun being stronger in conventional means.

If Kyp could face this final test, Luke would know he'd passed through the fire of his testing-tempered by forces as dire and powerful as those Luke himself had endured.

There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him. And laughing.

The presence had neared. It was strong in the dark side. He could feel the ripples, feel a power he hadn't felt in a living being since he encountered the Emperor. Luke had never had a student that powerful, of that he was certain.[/size]


She [Leia] wished she had the same certainty. This Kueller had more Force capability than anyone she had encountered in years. Except Exar Kun, and he had been a spirit. Kueller was alive.

Yes, Exar Kun was as powerful as Palpatine

You keep claiming I'm ignoring the 'Enhanced Force Powers' section despite the fact I'm not at all. I never doubted or ignored this. I never doubted the Star Forge amp. My point is that the original quote is not referring to this.

I'm not saying that 'threat' = 'power relative to a superweapon'. I'm saying that the statement is all-encompassing, and that the Star Forge is not excluded from it.

PeraltaEagle45 wrote:Sidious was already far more powerful than Malak. So yes, the Star Forge amped Malak more than Byss amped Sidious, but that in no way means SF Malak>DE Sidious.

Just stop wasting everyone's time.

The Ellimist wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:Malak's arsenal of powers, that are not strictly bound to combative feats, are far greater than Exar Kun's. Is by no means a reason Malak wins over-all. Being genuinely more powerful equates to Kun being stronger in conventional means.

As I have noted, the article clearly focuses on combat, so it giving Malak powers "far greater than" Exar Kun certainly gives one reason to think he has greater combat applicable powers, especially since both the bonuses given in the article and your **own** interpretation of nigh-invulnerability are both highly combat-relevant. Are you saying Malak was boasting about his nigh-invincibility to Revan because he could avoid accidental injuries?

The Ellimist wrote:Furthermore, the "greater powers doesn't necessarily mean so-and-so would win in a fight" also applies to comparisons of overall raw power, and indeed may actually apply more in those cases. This scrutiny is by no means confined to Malak having greater powers than Exar Kun. If you want to argue that Exar Kun will overcome that disparity with his greater technical skill, then that's a separate argument - he likely can't overcome them with his raw Force power, or else Malak's powers wouldn't be called "far greater".

The Ellimist wrote:I'd like to add once again how hilarious it is that you are taking "threat" to seriously refer to personal combative ability, yet not "powers".

The Ellimist wrote:Let's look at your alleged Kun quotes:

If Kyp could face this final test, Luke would know he'd passed through the fire of his testing-tempered by forces as dire and powerful as those Luke himself had endured.

The irony in trying to void the SF Malak quote for vagueness while parroting a quote like this one is just too off-the-charts to be a mistake at this point.

The Ellimist wrote:Kyp's test wasn't about how good at combat Exar Kun was...? That's not what "powerful" means in this context. At the most, this quote falls under ones like "Jaina was as good a duelist as anyone in the order" - not nearly literal and concrete enough to be taken over the explicit quotes putting Palpatine as the most powerful Sith ever.

The Ellimist wrote:How are you not aware of how inconsistently you apply scrutiny to sources?

The Ellimist wrote:

There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him. And laughing.

"Two of the greatest" doesn't mean "the two greatest", and even if it did would not say anything about how the two compare to one another.

Children of the Jedi wrote:The mightiest Jedi in the universe, he reflected bitterly--that he knew of, anyway - come the destroyer of the Sun Crusher, the slayer of evil, who'd defeated the recloned Emperor and the Sith Lord Exar Kun. . .

The Ellimist wrote:

The presence had neared. It was strong in the dark side. He could feel the ripples, feel a power he hadn't felt in a living being since he encountered the Emperor. Luke had never had a student that powerful, of that he was certain.

She [Leia] wished she had the same certainty. This Kueller had more Force capability than anyone she had encountered in years. Except Exar Kun, and he had been a spirit. Kueller was alive.

This has already been debunked in another thread,

The Ellimist wrote:but even if it hadn't been, it doesn't actually mean that Kun ~ Sidious. If Luke hadn't encountered that power in a living being since Sidious, this suggests that Sidious >= Kueller, but not necessarily = Kueller. "X is the greatest since Y" doesn't mean that X has parity with Y. I suppose to be super-semantically rigorous Luke could've said "since the Emperor, who was even more powerful", but in reality nobody needs to say that Y was actually greater.

The Ellimist wrote:

Yes, Exar Kun was as powerful as Palpatine

Trying to pass off someone's facebook messages as authoritative or comparable to multiple reviewed and published sources for Sidious is ridiculous and frankly an argument in bad faith.

The Ellimist wrote:None of these sources match the numerous explicit statements putting Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord in history as early as TPM, and certainly by RotS. I can guarantee that if the sources were reversed, you would still be backing Exar Kun.

The Ellimist wrote:

You keep claiming I'm ignoring the 'Enhanced Force Powers' section despite the fact I'm not at all. I never doubted or ignored this. I never doubted the Star Forge amp. My point is that the original quote is not referring to this.

Bullshit. The first part of the article talks about Malak in non-stat, narrative terms. The second part of the article explains the impact of the mysterious power source on game stats. You're trying to say that the article splits the effects between specific healing powers, which are far greater than Exar Kun, and broader powers, which you think are not. But if that were the case, why is the former not emphasized at all in the game stats? There is a single ability that is kind of related to healing, but then all of the rest are much broader and attributed to the same source.

The Ellimist wrote:Your in-article justification for this convoluted nonsense is that the article wonders whether this is because of cybernetic life support. As I've noted, it's plausible to wonder whether cybernetics can also enhance one's apparent powers. It can obviously boost you physically, and it can even literally enhance your Force powers (e.g. orbalisk armor, or sith-sorcery enhancements). We see plenty of examples of Sith enhancing their powers with implants; the fact that it happens to be on a life support system doesn't mean that it has to only grant Malak life support related benefits! Furthermore, the article even notes that this may be an inaccurate explanation! You try to say that it's more plausible that life support would grant him healing powers, which might have been somewhat possible if it weren't for the fact that the stat-section doesn't emphasize that at all, and they decide to use the broad phrase "powers" instead of "healing powers".

The Ellimist wrote:It would be really awkward and clunky to say "powers", secretly mean "healing powers" (even though they weren't trying to hide the effects at all), and then compare that to two specific characters who weren't known for their healing powers. The most obvious and straightforward explanation is that it's referring to a broad set of "powers". Otherwise it would be like asking whether Gordon Ramsay got [cooking] abilities "far greater than even Brock Lesnar or JRR Tolkien".

The Ellimist wrote:You then try to say that the other sources say that the Star Forge's main asset is restoring Malak's life energy. That's not true at all. Some sources mention that it gives him life energy, but others also mention that he is growing more powerful, and at least one mentions that he feeding on its power, which you think means that he's just being healed (??), even though feeding on a power source typically makes you more powerful overall.

The Ellimist wrote:But again, all of this is kind of meaningless anyway because the powers are "far greater than Exar Kun", whatever they are.

The Ellimist wrote:

I'm not saying that 'threat' = 'power relative to a superweapon'. I'm saying that the statement is all-encompassing, and that the Star Forge is not excluded from it.

Why did you decide to avoid defending the link between "threat" and "individual combat ability"?

The Ellimist wrote:Your Byss post is kind of incoherent; even if everything you said were true, it wouldn't actually say anything about Sidious relative to Exar Kun. Sidious being amped by Byss doesn't mean that he's weaker than Byss; in fact, we know that Sidious is more powerful of a nexus than Byss even after Byss had been amped by decades of his machinations. Furthermore, Malak likely didn't harness 100% of the Star Forge's power given that his power was stated to have still been growing.

The Ellimist wrote:By that same logic BTW, I could note that Exar Kun got amped by his amulet, and unless if you think his amulet > the Star Forge, I guess that means he's weaker than SF Malak too, amirite?

LadyKulvax wrote:The article? In a general sense, yes. Though unless you think him being intimidating is somehow a combative power, then I doubt his description is solely referring to his combat abilities.

Then again, I realise now that the only relevant portion is the description. What's sprinkled throughout the article is basically just game mechanic implementation.

It's not what I've said, though. At all. It isn't referring to combative ability, it is referring to the danger Kun poses to the galaxy and how he is moreso than anything else. Your argument is that the Star Forge doesn't count despite being literally stated to be a galactic threat.

No, it's a blanket statement about the forces Kyp has faced in comparison to Luke's.

That Luke refers to them as his two greatest triumphs  repeatedly throughout the series, then I'm inclined to think otherwise:

Children of the Jedi wrote:The mightiest Jedi in the universe, he reflected bitterly--that he knew of, anyway - come the destroyer of the Sun Crusher, the slayer of evil, who'd defeated the recloned Emperor and the Sith Lord Exar Kun. . .

Not that it's the point, it's saying they are two of the greatest dark side focal points he has ever faced. A considerably more important statement.

I said Exar Kun is on the tier of Sheev, not literally as powerful.

The Ellimist wrote:I'm not trying to pass off anything, I'm taking emails from an author with direct authority on the source material and asking his opinion.

You mean the numerous sources that aren't a Legends OOU, all-encompassing quote? Funny how you instantaneously take all of these to be infallible.

I am not saying the amp isn't included, I am saying that the primary quote from his description is clearly contextually relevant.

Bullshit. The first part of the article talks about Malak in non-stat, narrative terms. The second part of the article explains the impact of the mysterious power source on game stats. You're trying to say that the article splits the effects between specific healing powers, which are far greater than Exar Kun, and broader powers, which you think are not. But if that were the case, why is the former not emphasized at all in the game stats? There is a single ability that is kind of related to healing, but then all of the rest are much broader and attributed to the same source.

Given that Nadd's definitive trait was living for over a century before thriving as a spirit, and that Kun's was using sorcery to sustain himself in spiritual form and survive a nigh genocidal decimation of his planet for four thousand years. You've actually just gone and accidentally supported my point. They're not only the perfect comparisons as of 2003, they're also his closest historical competitors.

Except that it isn't implicating a hidden ability from the life support, it is saying that a form of life support itself is a plausible, yet possibly too simple, explanation for the far greater powers he is being given. Fortunately, we're all aware of what the actual source is, and it just so happens to also provide him life support. Isn't that an amazing coincidence. Almost as if, it's literally stated by the most canonical source here and is reflected by the biggest plot-twist in the story.

That the most canonical source here refers directly to his ability to restore his life force via the Star Forge as the reason he was almost unstoppable, not the boost to his power growth. Is pretty damn indicative to me. Not that I'm even dismissing the boost to his power, just pointing out that replenishing his life force is literally stated to be the primary reason he was almost unstoppable. Not his power growth.

That his powers are stated to be boosted 'exponentionally' prior to his machinations nullifies that he later becomes a dark side nexus greater than Byss.

Malak's growth hasn't stopped because the Star Forge is at 300% capacity. (Gotta love how you're accidentally supporting the Kun focal point quote here, and I could drive the point home further, but I'll leave that for next time.)

The amulet is stated to focus the rage from his own heart into magical Force blasts. So no, he isn't amped. But given Sidious was collecting these amulets, and says himself that he's 'restless' in the knowledge that more are out there. Then I really wouldn't try digging your own grave here.

The Ellimist wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:The article? In a general sense, yes. Though unless you think him being intimidating is somehow a combative power, then I doubt his description is solely referring to his combat abilities.

Something that's obviously describing his appearance is very different from the phrase "powers" used in comparison to two Sith Lords that's then repeated in the context of giving him additional Force feats and abilities. Even if we buy your dubious assertion that this is referring to healing/durability powers, the "far greater than Exar Kun" is no less likely to be relevant to a combative comparison than a generic "more powerful than" statement would be.

The Ellimist wrote:So we're left with the conclusion that the powers Malak gets are far greater than Exar Kun.

The Ellimist wrote:

Then again, I realise now that the only relevant portion is the description. What's sprinkled throughout the article is basically just game mechanic implementation.

The game mechanic implementation provides clear insight into the intended meaning behind "powers", unless if there's an in-game reason why they would refuse to implement the power source as primarily healing-based if that's what they wanted, or if two authors were writing the same article and disagreed or something.

Darth Malak wrote:Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5 -- Darth Malak ignores the first five points of any kind of damage. Whether this is due to hidden armor linked to his voice mask or the physical result of Sith alchemy is anyone's guess.

Darth Malak wrote:Enhanced Force Powers -- Using a mysterious power source as yet undiscovered (complete Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic to learn more), Darth Malak possesses extraordinary dark side Force powers out of proportion, in game terms, with his class and level. He gained three additional Force feats and 24 bonus skill points exclusively for dark side skills. In any battle, the first Force point Darth Malak spends on a dark side-related roll does not subtract from his total.

Darth Malak wrote:Force Feats: Alter, Burst of Speed, Control, Drain Force*, Force Mind, Force Whirlwind, Hatred*, Knight Defense, Lightsaber Defense, Malevolent, Master Defense, Mettle, Rage*, Sense, Sith Sorcery*, Sith Sword Defense*.

The Ellimist wrote:

It's not what I've said, though. At all. It isn't referring to combative ability, it is referring to the danger Kun poses to the galaxy and how he is moreso than anything else. Your argument is that the Star Forge doesn't count despite being literally stated to be a galactic threat.

...so if it's not referring to combative ability (or even Force power), why do you keep using it as evidence for Kun?

The Ellimist wrote:

No, it's a blanket statement about the forces Kyp has faced in comparison to Luke's.

So you don't think "powers far greater than" would be a comparison in a combative context, but "forces as powerful and dire" in the context of trials that were about Kyp's emotional maturity must refer to Exar Kun's combative power? Those forces aren't even necessarily referring to Exar Kun literally; they could easily be about the mental and emotional trials he went through.

The Ellimist wrote:Anyway, a vague comparison such as that is more in the tier of "Jaina was as powerful as any in the Order" than "so-and-so is the most powerful of all time" or, even more explicitly, "X is more powerful than Y", especially not when Luke is musing in his head about Kyp Durron's trials and not carefully ranking the power of Exar Kun to the power of Sidious. You really seem to be latching onto incredibly vague accolades to override the extremely explicit ones aligned against Kun.

The Ellimist wrote:

That Luke refers to them as his two greatest triumphs  repeatedly throughout the series, then I'm inclined to think otherwise:

Children of the Jedi wrote:The mightiest Jedi in the universe, he reflected bitterly--that he knew of, anyway - come the destroyer of the Sun Crusher, the slayer of evil, who'd defeated the recloned Emperor and the Sith Lord Exar Kun. . .

...  So because he referenced those two events while thinking about how to describe himself off the top of his head, they must not only be his absolute two greatest triumphs, but also a direct reference to how powerful in combat the two were, even though Luke didn't even beat Exar Kun by fighting him directly? Seriously?

The Ellimist wrote:You think the SF Malak quote is too ambiguous, but him mentioning those two victories in an inner monologue means that they must be his two greatest triumphs and that this also implies they are absolutely the two most personally powerful characters?

How could you possibly type these double standards with a straight face?

The Ellimist wrote:

Not that it's the point, it's saying they are two of the greatest dark side focal points he has ever faced. A considerably more important statement.

It's almost like you ignored the part where I noted that "two of the greatest" doesn't mean "the two greatest". Why do you keep ignoring critical points?

The Ellimist wrote:Oh, and you completely ignored the part where I note that this doesn't say anything about how Palpatine and Kun compare to each other. Why do you keep ignoring critical points?

The Ellimist wrote:

I said Exar Kun is on the tier of Sheev, not literally as powerful.

And the quotes don't even say that Exar Kun is on the same tier as Sidious. They just say (if they were taken as credible) that Exar Kun is more powerful than anyone he encountered after Palpatine. He didn't encounter anyone close to Palpatine in power between those times anyway.

The Ellimist wrote:

The Ellimist wrote:I'm not trying to pass off anything, I'm taking emails from an author with direct authority on the source material and asking his opinion.

He doesn't have "direct authority". His published material has direct authority.

The Ellimist wrote:

You mean the numerous sources that aren't a Legends OOU, all-encompassing quote? Funny how you instantaneously take all of these to be infallible.

...

...

...  

You have to be trolling me at this point. You literally just gave a giant string of in-universe musings and monologues that not only relied on character opinions, but also of the semantic precision of their musings (e.g. if Luke thinks of two accomplishments, they must be his two greatest), and now you're complaining that the Palpatine quotes aren't out of universe? Are you serious?

(BTW, several of them are indeed out-of-universe, as I'm sure you know. If Exar Kun had even one of them, you'd hang a picture of it on your wall.)

The Ellimist wrote:

I am not saying the amp isn't included, I am saying that the primary quote from his description is clearly contextually relevant.

It's almost as if you didn't actually respond to what you were quoting. Here it is again:

Bullshit. The first part of the article talks about Malak in non-stat, narrative terms. The second part of the article explains the impact of the mysterious power source on game stats. You're trying to say that the article splits the effects between specific healing powers, which are far greater than Exar Kun, and broader powers, which you think are not. But if that were the case, why is the former not emphasized at all in the game stats? There is a single ability that is kind of related to healing, but then all of the rest are much broader and attributed to the same source.

The Ellimist wrote:

Given that Nadd's definitive trait was living for over a century before thriving as a spirit, and that Kun's was using sorcery to sustain himself in spiritual form and survive a nigh genocidal decimation of his planet for four thousand years. You've actually just gone and accidentally supported my point. They're not only the perfect comparisons as of 2003, they're also his closest historical competitors.

Yeah, that's totally what the article meant - life expectancy.  And clearly, it deliberately chose those two Sith because they were sith spirits afterwards, and not because they were really powerful.

If the article meant to say that, this would be the weirdest possible way to do it. Here's what it could've said:

"Did it grant him healing powers far greater than Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd's?"

or

"Did it grant him the power to defy death to an even greater degree than Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd?"

but nope, it generically mentions "powers" and then later attributes to the same source a bunch of general Force amps. And no, the fact that it doesn't bother to mention the offhanded speculation about the life support again in that section doesn't mean it's referring to a different source. It alludes to the Star Forge again; it doesn't need to repeat a random speculative, fake alternative every time it mentions the Star Forge amp for it to be the Star Forge amp. The extra Force skills were the central effect of the Star Forge amp in the article.

The Ellimist wrote:

Except that it isn't implicating a hidden ability from the life support, it is saying that a form of life support itself is a plausible, yet possibly too simple, explanation for the far greater powers he is being given. Fortunately, we're all aware of what the actual source is, and it just so happens to also provide him life support. Isn't that an amazing coincidence. Almost as if, it's literally stated by the most canonical source here and is reflected by the biggest plot-twist in the story.

...no.

Vader's suit is itself a life support system. Grievous's entire body is itself a life support system. Both amped them in substantial ways beyond life support (Vader's too, even if offset by the losses of the injuries), and neither of those benefits were "hidden". If a sources says "Grievous's life support gave him tremendous abilities", the word "abilities" doesn't have to be confined to his longevity. The "cybernetic enhancement", which is also what it's called in the article, happens to be called "life support", but that doesn't mean its amps are somehow a separate device from the system.

What would you have the article say? "Did a side effect of the life support system having cybernetic parts that granted advantages beyond life support give him powers far greater than Exar Kun"?

The Ellimist wrote:

That the most canonical source here refers directly to his ability to restore his life force via the Star Forge as the reason he was almost unstoppable, not the boost to his power growth. Is pretty damn indicative to me. Not that I'm even dismissing the boost to his power, just pointing out that replenishing his life force is literally stated to be the primary reason he was almost unstoppable. Not his power growth.

Where is it "literally stated" to be the "primary" reason?

Databank wrote:The Sith Lord had grotesquely adapted the Rakatan device to draw energy directly from chained Jedi captives. He replenished his life force from the captives by draining theirs. Malak was nearly unstoppable, but the Republic emerged from that epic conflict victorious, as the Star Forge was eventually destroyed.

The Ellimist wrote:

That his powers are stated to be boosted 'exponentionally' prior to his machinations nullifies that he later becomes a dark side nexus greater than Byss.

...how? Sidious doesn't have to be weaker than Byss for it to greatly boost his power.

The Ellimist wrote:

Malak's growth hasn't stopped because the Star Forge is at 300% capacity. (Gotta love how you're accidentally supporting the Kun focal point quote here, and I could drive the point home further, but I'll leave that for next time.)

...

but then by that logic, even if you could show that Exar Kun > the Star Forge, it wouldn't prove Exar Kun > SF Malak?  

The Ellimist wrote:

The amulet is stated to focus the rage from his own heart into magical Force blasts. So no, he isn't amped. But given Sidious was collecting these amulets, and says himself that he's 'restless' in the knowledge that more are out there. Then I really wouldn't try digging your own grave here.

Sith amulet are stated in multiple sources to boost power. But you're not addressing the underlying point, which is that an amp source doesn't have to be as powerful as the wielder for the wielder to get boosted substantially.