Kyp Durron vs Qui-Gon Jinn

All out fight to the death

Who wins?

Kyp one-shots.

Kyp blinks.

Kyp lol.

Prime Kyp one-shots, he has near GM Luke level telekinesis, his force powers are just too much for Qui Gon.
Post-prime Durron in legacy of the force and fate of the Jedi wins after a good fight.

ILS, you disappoint me. Kyp absolutely smacks.

TheGlory wrote:ILS, you disappoint me. Kyp absolutely smacks.

Perhaps you will be the first to substantiate the idea Kyp oneshots/stomps/wins easily?

Certainly.

Kyp's primary advantage over Jinn is his Force power, which I beleive he has in spades more than Jinn.

Kyp "within days has surpassed the achievements of the other Jedi students" (Jedi Academy Sourcebook) after arriving at Luke Skywalker's Jedi Praxeum and proved "almost immediately to be the greatest of the apprentices gathered there" (I,Jedi) and was stated to be "easily the most powerful" (StarWars.com Databank Archive Kyp Durron) with his growth being "nothing shy of incredible" and surpassing the other students "by light-years" (I, Jedi).

Indeed, "Kyp's power dwarfed that of Gantoris" (I,Jedi). Gantoris, prior to Kyp's own arrival at the Praxeum, had proved "himself to be a talented and dedicated student" and "shown the most progress, the most inner strength". Moreover, "he {Gantoris} knew he was the best of the students" (Jedi Academy II - Dark Apprentice). Gantoris could utilise the Force from an early age and used it to "sense impeding earthquakes" (Jedi Academy I - Jedi Search) and "once miraculously survived an avalanche that killed all the other children in his play group" (Jedi Academy Sourcebook). Furthermore, he used his "innate talent with the Force to keep a small group of forgotton colonists alive" (Jedi Academy II - Dark Apprentice). These colonists were on the planet Eol Sha, a planet noted as: "A volcanic world whose surface was covered with scalding geysers and bubbling lava fissures (home of the dangerous lava fireworm)" (The Complete Star Wars Encyclodia). Thus, Gantoris would need to have considerable Force talents, while having no training in the practice, to be the one keeping a small society alive on such a harsh planet.

Then we have the students in which Gantoris, and by extension Kyp, scale above. The main two I'm going to look at initially will be Kam Solusar and Streen. Prior to his Jedi training on Yavin, Kam Solusar "became one of Palpatine's seven Dark Side Adepts" (The New Essential Guide to Characters) or Dark Side Elite: "The planet later served as the headquarters of the dark side Executor Sedriss and the Emperor's elite force of Dark Jedi, including Kam Solusar" (StarWars.com Databank Archives - Vjun). These Adepts, likely including Palpatine's Elite Corps, are noted for their power:

Handbook Volume III - Dark Empire wrote:While some were merely yes-men, cronies barely fit to be footstools in the Imperial Court, others possessed tremendous strength in the Force. Coupled with maniacal lust for power, or merely psychotic, these dark side adepts were some of the most dangerous Force users in the galaxy short of the Emperor himself.

Dark Empire Sourcebook wrote:While none of them were permitted to advance far compared to Palpatine’s own level of power, they did become quite powerful indeed.

These adepts were "capable sorcerers in their own right" and were "powerful Dark Side magicians" (Dark Empire Endnotes). They were capable of "spawning living monstrocities - beasts and intelligent entities, some unspeakably ugly, some full of malevolent charm and symmetry, all utterly permeated by the power of the Dark Side" (Dark Empire Endnotes). Sorzus Syn herself notes that the use of alchemy on the living is "suited only for masters" (Book of Sith) and that "the most powerful Sith Lords possess a talent for the dark alchemy of the Sith." (Dark Side Sourcebook). Thus, to be a member of the Elite, Solusar would likely have had to have known such abilties, or at least be powerful enough to be equal to or exceed the power of Sidious' adepts who did.

While Kyp as of his training wouldn't possess those abilties himself, his power would at least be greater than those that can which is noteworthy when one observes that a Force user needs to be at least moderately powerful to perform them.

Then there's Streen whom who could generate whirlwinds that could have one "crash thousands of feet" if caught up in it and managed to catch Leia and have her "thrown through the air, flying like an insect toward the stone walls" (Jedi Academy III - Champoins of the Force). He also countered Exar Kun's choke hold over the Jedi Praxeum by pushing air into their lungs (Jedi Academy III - Champions of the Force).

When Kyp fell under Kun's sway he was promised to "study the dark side" (Dark Side Sourcebook). Judging by the fact that Gantoris, who was previously swayed toward Kun, had allegedly learned "new forbidden power" (Jedi Academy Sourcebook) and "he could draw on the energy he required using different methods, secrets he had been taught that the other students did not suspect" (Jedi Academy II - Dark Apprentice). I point this out because it is likely also the case that Kun taught Kyp extra abilities, something made clear in the novels:

Jedi Academy II - Dark Apprentice wrote:Insects and small biting creatures buzzed and scuttled around them, but none bothered Kyp. He consciously exuded a shadow of uneasiness around him so that lower creatures had no incentive to come nearer. Exar Kun had taught him that trick too.

Kyp had "brashly used a Sith technique to generate an unappetizing aura around himself" (Jedi Academy III - Champions of the Force). Not to mention the fact that when he returns to confront Luke Skywalker on Yavin Kyp also knows lightning when he previously didn't, having "blasted Luke with lightning bolts like black cracks in the Force" (Jedi Academy II - Dark Apprentice). And lastly we have Kyp raising dark side tendrils in his and Exar's confrontation against Luke:

Jedi Academy II - Dark Apprentice wrote:Dark tendrils rose up from the gaps in the temple flagstones, fanged, illusionary vipers that struck at him from all sides. Luke cried out and tried to strike back, but the shadows of Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly force.

I say Kyp because as the book notes that the tendrils attacked Luke before "the shadows of Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly force."
I raise these points, less so due to the abilities themselves, and more so to highlight that Kyp learned new abilities and knowledge under Kun's tuteledge. Typically, when a Force user expands their wealth of knowledge, their power also increases with it. For example,  Dooku when he began studying the dark side. Thus it likely the case the Kyp experienced another growth in power, thus exceeding that of his Jedi Trainee self whom was already above the other students.

By 12 ABY, Kyp maintained his position above the other students with Luke noting that he was "his own finest student" (Children of the Jedi) and "greatest student" (Jedi Academy: Leviathan #1).
Thus, Kyp maintians superiority over the students who at this point can throw boulders and rocks at Tie Fighters with enough force to penetrate them:

Darksaber wrote:Three TIE fighters roared in, laser cannons shooting continuously as they approached in a triangular formation. The warrior woman Kirana Ti stood out in the open near the piles of rubble the Jedi trainees had so meticulously removed from the ruins. The TIE fighters saw her and fired. Ignoring her own danger, she gestured with her hand and, using the Force as a sling, she snatched one of the squarish boulders cut by Massassi slaves thousands of years before-and hurled it with all her Jedi strength.

The stone flew through the air and smashed one of the TIE fighter's flat power arrays. It careened to one side, and the pilot could not regain control. The ship exploded in the trees on the far side of the temple.

Kam Solusar stood on the other side of the clearing and, using the Force, he, too, began hurling rocks at the remaining two TIE fighters. The boulders battered the Imperial ships, smashing through the cockpits. All the Jedi trainees had the idea now, and a blast of sharp rock shards hammered the two fleeing ships out of the sky. Both exploded in midflight to the cheers of the embattled Jedi students.

Streen who managed to use alter-environment to slam four Ties together:

Darksaber wrote:Streen, however, did not pick up rocks or other weapons with the Force. He used the air itself, moving molecules in the atmosphere to summon storm currents and scramble the air attack line with a wall of wind that achieved hurricane strength. The gusting currents buffeted the TIE fighters right and left, forcing the pilots to concentrate on simply flying and not allowing them to fire a single shot.

Streen looked up into the sky, his eyes wide and bloodshot, his hair wafting about his head. He held his trembling fingers outstretched and then brought his hands together symbolically, slamming his hands of wind so that the heavy crosscurrents smashed the four TIE fighters together. They crashed into a single knot of molten wreckage that tumbled out of the air.

And Dorsk 81, who on pure instinct, destroyed an AT-ST with TK:

Darksaber wrote:Dorsk 81 froze for just an instant. He saw what was going to happen-but he couldn't allow it. In an instinctive gesture, he released the Force; he did not restrain him-self, did not channel or direct the flow, merely releasing his fear and his wish to get the scout walker away from his friend.

A wall of invisible force slammed into the AT-ST, flattening its cockpit and crushing the walker backward into a tree.

And then there is Kyp one-shotting a Leviathan with alter-environment:



In the interim between 12 ABY and 25 ABY as he recovered from the Exar Kun incident, Kyp grew into one of the strongest and most powerful Jedi, implying he grew in power during this period:

The Official Star Wars Factfile - #40 wrote:He recovered, however, becoming one of Luke’s strongest and most loyal students.

The Official Star Wars Factfile - #115 wrote:A Restored Reputation: Following his fall to the dark side, Kyp Durron worked hard to restore his reputation as a Jedi. Under the guidance of Luke Skywalker, Kyp restrained and quickly became a very powerful Jedi and his help was vital during the Yuuzhan Vong invasion.

During the Vong war and after, Kyp has feats like ragdolling shuttles:

New Jedi Order - Star by Star wrote:The corvette lashed out with plasma cannons and magma missiles, and Anakin’s display filled with streaks of red energy. Nothing wrong with Big Eye’s sensor package. Kyp had destroyed the shuttle … how? The Force? It didn’t seem possible. Only the most powerful Jedi could use it that way

And casually moving the Jade Shadow:

Legacy of the Force IV: Exile wrote:"No." He glanced to the left, where the nearby Jedi Temple was clearly visible just past the Jade Shadow's stern. "Unless you'd like to save your engines-I can just pick you up and set you down over there." He reached out with his hand, palm up, an overly dramatic gesture, and the Jade Shadow vibrated for a moment, moving under the pressure he exerted with the Force.

I'm too lazy to get into the Dovin Bassal feat as this post is long enough.

However, to sum up. Vong War (and likely onward) Kyp > 12 ABY Kyp =/> 11 ABY Dark Side Kyp > 11 ABY Jedi Trainee Kyp >>> Gantoris > The Jedi Students.

To conclude, I think Kyp's scaling, innate ability and breadth of powers far outstrips that of Jinn's own and depending on how he approaches this fight he should be able to utilize this advantage to garner an easy win. Jinn's saving grace in this fight is perhaps his level of skill, but if he does outstrip Kyp in this regard I do not believe it is by a massive degree, but again I can't be arsed getting into it just now. If yourself or someone else responds, perhaps we can get the ball rolling on that.[/quote]

That citation method looks familiar

Meatpants wrote:That citation method looks familiar

Here, it's a good style.

I'll take that compliment

But yes, this thread is really weird. No point to it. The only advantage Jinn has is that he's way more technically skilled.

Meatpants wrote:I'll take that compliment

But yes, this thread is really weird. No point to it. The only advantage Jinn has is that he's way more technically skilled.

I wouldn’t be so sure. Kyp was far above TUF Jaden in lightsaber skill and is likely in the same tier as Viun Galaan.

Meaning?

@meatpants meaning he’s as good if not better than Jinn as a duelist.

That was a decisive slaughter kek. Good post.

Kyp

Kyp kinda blows through Jinn. Jinn may be technically skilled, but i sincerely don't think he's skilled enough to outright beat Kyp. Kyp wins 8/10 imho

Kyp's very powerful, sure. But not a single combat feat has been listed for the guy. Rivi Anu blows every one of those power feats and all of Kyp's scaling out of the water, yet it'd be laughable to suggest she's even as good as Ki-Adi-Mundi, considering she got shot by a small group of droids that Mundi had no issue avoiding.

Jinn's got a pretty favourable comparison to Maul under his belt, a wealth of accolades attesting to him being one of the best pure swordsmen in Jedi history and one of the best in the Order at the time, not to mention humbling Anoon Bondara and TPM Kenobi (who have their own impressive accolades). Suffice to say if Maul is not "oneshotting"/"smacking"/"stomping" Qui-Gon, there's not a chance in hell Kyp is.

Kyp's comparisons to Kyle and Gaalan as a swordsman are probably as good as, if not better than Qui-Gon's comparisons to Maul on average, but I agree it'd be a good fight.

Building on what ILS and Nova said, it would take Maul over a minute on neutral ground to kill Qui-Gon in a lightaber duel, which is an impressive feat in of itself. Not to mention of course that Qui-Gon's accolades are more extensive than most other Jedi, his technical skill especially is insanely wanked by the sources.

ILS wrote: not to mention humbling Anoon Bondara and TPM Kenobi

Uh, dude legitimately was hard pressed against 17 year old Kenobi and was a sweating, out of breath mess at the end of their spar. 17 year old Kenobi, not TPM Kenobi

The dictionary definition of humble is to make someone feel less important or less strong, basically prove to them that they are not as strong as they thought. By the end of this match, Kenobi had not only stated his case firmly( that was to be treated as an equal), but the match even changed the master-apprentice dynamic between them, their relationship. Not sure about your definition of humbling, but it certainly doesn't seem as though he was humbled in the slightest. Quite the opposite

ILS wrote:Kyp's very powerful, sure. But not a single combat feat has been listed for the guy. Rivi Anu blows every one of those power feats and all of Kyp's scaling out of the water, yet it'd be laughable to suggest she's even as good as Ki-Adi-Mundi .

Are you aware that the feat from Rivi-Anu is a really circumstantial one and that clearly cannot be use as a common one.

LOTL wrote:

ILS wrote: not to mention humbling Anoon Bondara and TPM Kenobi

Uh, dude legitimately was hard pressed against 17 year old Kenobi and was a sweating, out of breath mess at the end of their spar. 17 year old Kenobi, not TPM Kenobi

The dictionary definition of humble is to make someone feel less important or less strong, basically prove to them that they are not as strong as they thought. By the end of this match, Kenobi had not only stated his case firmly( that was to be treated as an equal), but the match even changed the master-apprentice dynamic between them, their relationship. Not sure about your definition of humbling, but it certainly doesn't seem as though he was humbled in the slightest. Quite the opposite

He's better than Obi-Wan. I'm not sure why you've gone to such lengths not to take my meaning here.

xolthol wrote:

ILS wrote:Kyp's very powerful, sure. But not a single combat feat has been listed for the guy. Rivi Anu blows every one of those power feats and all of Kyp's scaling out of the water, yet it'd be laughable to suggest she's even as good as Ki-Adi-Mundi .

Are you aware that the feat from Rivi-Anu is a really circumstantial one and that clearly cannot be use as a common one.

Proof?