Luke Skywalker (The Empire Strikes Back) vs. Asajj Ventress (Clone Wars)

I’d like to reiterate that the incarnation of Asajj Ventress in this thread is as of her duel with Anakin Skywalker on Yavin IV in Star Wars: Clone Wars.

KingofBlades wrote:GL says Ben Kenobi is significantly more powerful in the force.

Source? Exact quote? I provided mine. Only fair you put in some measure of effort.

If Ben was two levels above, he wouldn't have lost/stalemated him.

Two levels above is nearing domination level to be honest.

I see a "maybe" in there. Sounds like rough estimation and guesswork, without much serious thought put behind it. It's also worth noting that these levels aren't explicitly stated to be about raw power. It could be discussing levels of knowledge, which makes more sense. Kenobi is no doubt more knowledgeable in the ways of the Force than Luke and Vader.

That aside, even if Ben is more powerful than Luke in the Force, that doesn't necessarily mean he's a better duelist. Ben spent close to 20 years letting his combat skill deteriorate while he meditated on the Force to learn how to become a Force ghost. Meanwhile, Luke is developing as a duelist at an impressive rate. Luke challenged Vader more in a lightsaber duel than Kenobi did. 

Saying Ben is a better combatant than Luke just because he's stronger in the Force is like saying Jorus C'baoth is a better fighter than Cin Drallig. Just because one character is way stronger in the Force does not prove that they're a more capable duelist.

Praxis wrote:When they fought, [Vader] had also tried to strike the boy down, but that had been merely a test. Had he been able to kill Luke easily, Luke would not have been worth the effort to recruit. But although he had certainly attempted to defeat Luke, the boy had held his own. Despite Vader's superior skill, despite his experience, Luke had survived with no more damage than an easily repaired amputated hand.

The meeting had made Vader feel, not a normal occurrence lately. There had been the thrill at meeting a worthy opponent and pride that the one so strongly opposing him was his own son.

Vader smiled into the darkness surrounding him. Obi-Wan had not told Luke that Anakin Skywalker had become Darth Vader. Luke's anger at the man who had slain his teacher had been potent, had allowed the dark side to claim him. If Vader hadn't broken that anger with fear and confusion by telling the boy he was his father, Luke could have defeated him.

While Vader initially toyed with Luke during the earliest stages of the fight (which is self-evident watching the movie), he "certainly attempted to defeat Luke" as the fight progressed, yet Luke still held his own and was dubbed a "worthy opponent" and was "so strongly opposing him."

 A quick sword exchange and Luke forces Vader back.  
Another exchange and Vader retreats.  Luke presses forward.

VADER
Only your hatred can destroy me.

Breathing hard, Luke jumps in the air, turning a somersault over Vader.  
He lands on the floor and slashes at Vader as the room continues to 
fill up with steam.

Vader retreats before Luke's skillful sword.  Vader blocks the sword, 
but looses his balance and falls into the outer rim of pipes.

The script also indicates Luke pushed Vader back due to his "skillful sword," with no mention of Vader toying.

Sparks fly as they duel, Vader gradually forcing Luke
backward toward the gantry.

Then, when Vader goes berserk toward the end, it's noted he "gradually forces" Luke backward, indicating he can't do it easily. Of course, recall that Luke manages to deliver a painful blow that cut deep through his shoulder armor plates, which is suppose to be semi-lightsaber proof. If not for his armor, Vader may have died.

Luke glances at the instrument complex floating away.  At that instant, 
Vader's sword comes down across Luke's right forearm, cutting off his 
hand and sending his sword flying. 

And it's emphasized both in the script and other sources Vader disarmed Luke because he diverted his attention, which is more indicative of lack of experience than skill.

KingofBlades wrote:[size=32]"George Lucas and Leigh Brackett also discussed the different levels of the Force; maybe Ben was a six, Vader was a four, Luke is now at level two."

Source: Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays[/size]

Early draft stuff. Anyway the ANH novel has Vader winning the fight

Asajj murks

Let's look at what we have here:

>An OOU source proclaiming Ventress to be no threat to Vader.
>ESB Luke giving Vader a hell of a fight, driving him back repeatedly, tagging him and holding up under his offensive.

I don't give a rat's ass what Ventress has done, we have a clear cut comparison between the two.