Darth Krayt vs Exar Kun

Krayt, obviously

JediJuice wrote:Kun lifts a ship up two steps on an enormous nexus focused by Temples and he suddenly has Dooku tier telekinesis. Sounds more like sub K’Kruhk level power to me.

They lifted the same ship. Better yet Dooku was amped by Korriban when he did it. The difference being that Kun's power more than doubles after this point. Gaining 'tremendous powers', then the Dark Holocron which is attributed to have caused most of his overall power growth. Then he's stated to grow 'far' more powerful after that on the knowledge he stole from the Chamber of Antiquities on Ossus.

Lmfao @ dismissing this on the basis of the Yavin nexus.

Azronger wrote:There has not been a single time in Legacy when Muur has been above Krayt, not even in Vector when Krayt's at death's door. Even then, he demonstrated superiority to Celeste Morne who is Muur's equal by way of going head-to-head with him in a war of wills for over a century, in a way not all that dissimilar from Revan and Vitiate's case. Muur actively needed to basically double his power by merging with Celeste to match Krayt, and Krayt could still negate the majority of Morne-Muur's lightning's potency while having a lightsaber run through his shoulder simultaneously.

Really?

Insider 113 wrote:On Had Abbadon, in the Deep Core, Krayt confronted Skywalker a second time. But a third Force-user possessed powers that outshone them both. Karness Muur, an ancient Sith spirit, blasted Krayt with overpowering energy, sending him over a cliff to the rocks below.

Now, I'm assuming none of you are using epic Neph tier double-standards and hypocrisy. I wouldn't want to think that you'd dismiss this on the basis of the plural 'powers' when you don't dismiss the Malak quote on the same basis.

@LadyKulvax They lifted the same ship. Better yet Dooku was amped by Korriban when he did it. The difference being that Kun's power more than doubles after this point.

Amped by this?

Korriban has lost potency over the past 7000 years, but it still whispers of dark secrets.
- Book Of Sith: Secrets From The Dark Side

He’d heard that this had once been a place of great power, though now only the merest shadows remained. 
- Darth Bane: Path Of Destruction

Still, he was troubled. He remembered the first time he’d set foot on Korriban. He’d sensed the power of the world: Korriban was alive with the dark side. Yet the feeling had been faint and distant. 
- Darth Bane: Path Of Destruction

Also note;

They were nearing the end of the hangar. He sensed it rather than saw it. The corroded vehicles were more numerous* now, lined up like dark, giant phantoms. Like phantoms.. Phantoms that move... Obi-Wan wrenched his gaze away. He could have sworn the ancient ships were moving.
- Jedi Quest: The Final Showdown

He paused by the wreckage of the vehicles that the mysterious Sith had moved so easily.
- Jedi Quest: The Final Showdown

*Numerous; great in number; many.

Dooku easily lifts up every ship at once, dividing his Force power between them all, so in reality it takes but a fraction of the Count's strength to lift (according to you) the same ship that Kun does. Unless Kun is also simultaneously throwing around a multitude of other cruisers with ease while helping another up the steps, I'm not impressed.

You can't compare Dooku lifting a 'great many' ships on top of that cruiser on a weaksauce nexus without strain and throwing them all with such force that it caused deafening echoes throughout the hangar, to Kun lifting one of them up in an unknown amount of time, with unknown difficulty while boosted by a nexus many times more powerful than some shipyard on the outskirts of a waning Korriban.

Gaining 'tremendous powers', then the Dark Holocron which is attributed to have caused most of his overall power growth. Then he's stated to grow 'far' more powerful after that on the knowledge he stole from the Chamber of Antiquities on Ossus. Lmfao @ dismissing this on the basis of the Yavin nexus.

Kun grows? What a revelation. I'd wager that being on one of the most potent focal points of dark side energy of the time period would also lend you 'tremendous powers' and boost your strength tenfold. Kun grows far more powerful than his base self, which means he's way more powerful than he was on Yavin, where he had Dooku level tk? Goober character, goober debater, goober logic.

Another sub K'Kruhk and Rivi tier feat for the failing ancients.

JediJuice wrote:

@LadyKulvax They lifted the same ship. Better yet Dooku was amped by Korriban when he did it. The difference being that Kun's power more than doubles after this point.

Amped by this?

Korriban has lost potency over the past 7000 years, but it still whispers of dark secrets.
- Book Of Sith: Secrets From The Dark Side

He’d heard that this had once been a place of great power, though now only the merest shadows remained. 
- Darth Bane: Path Of Destruction

Still, he was troubled. He remembered the first time he’d set foot on Korriban. He’d sensed the power of the world: Korriban was alive with the dark side. Yet the feeling had been faint and distant. 
- Darth Bane: Path Of Destruction

Also note;

They were nearing the end of the hangar. He sensed it rather than saw it. The corroded vehicles were more numerous* now, lined up like dark, giant phantoms. Like phantoms.. Phantoms that move... Obi-Wan wrenched his gaze away. He could have sworn the ancient ships were moving.
- Jedi Quest: The Final Showdown

He paused by the wreckage of the vehicles that the mysterious Sith had moved so easily.
- Jedi Quest: The Final Showdown

*Numerous; great in number; many.

Dooku easily lifts up every ship at once, dividing his Force power between them all, so in reality it takes but a fraction of the Count's strength to lift (according to you) the same ship that Kun does. Unless Kun is also simultaneously throwing around a multitude of other cruisers with ease while helping another up the steps, I'm not impressed.

You can't compare Dooku lifting a 'great many' ships on top of that cruiser on a weaksauce nexus without strain and throwing them all with such force that it caused deafening echoes throughout the hangar, to Kun lifting one of them up in an unknown amount of time, with unknown difficulty while boosted by a nexus many times more powerful than some shipyard on the outskirts of a waning Korriban.

Gaining 'tremendous powers', then the Dark Holocron which is attributed to have caused most of his overall power growth. Then he's stated to grow 'far' more powerful after that on the knowledge he stole from the Chamber of Antiquities on Ossus. Lmfao @ dismissing this on the basis of the Yavin nexus.

Kun grows? What a revelation. I'd wager that being on one of the most potent focal points of dark side energy of the time period would also lend you 'tremendous powers' and boost your strength tenfold. Kun grows far more powerful than his base self, which means he's way more powerful than he was on Yavin, where he had Dooku level tk? Goober character, goober debater, goober logic.

Another sub K'Kruhk and Rivi tier feat for the failing ancients.

You know, it's awfully funny that we're debating Darth Krayt and yet you fully ignore the fact that the Korriban nexus was so strong that it hid Krayt's presence in the Force to everyone who travelled there until he left after Endor. Meaning not even Darth Sidious when he travelled there could sense the presence of Krayt, such was the drowning effect of Korriban's nexus. This being the Sheev who could sense Vader's traitorous thoughts from across the galaxy and all that shit.

In JediQuest, the book Dooku does this in. It still causes hallucinations to the protagonists just like what it did to Meetra in the Dark Wars when she visited the tomb of Ludo Kressh.

Is Korriban not as powerful as it once was? Indeed. Is it negligible to the power of Count Dooku? Lmfao, not at all. Vjun amped Dooku up to his eyeballs.

The difference between Dooku and Kun is that Dooku is throwing ships across a hangar. Kun is lifting the largest of those ships out of a temple that covers the pit it is buried beneath. He's lifting it up and out of an immensely deep pit with enough precision that it isn't damaged despite the pit itself not being wide enough to comfortably fit it through.

But yeah, Kun goes through such an enormous power growth (such that the Dark Holocron is blamed for hin gaining such power so quickly) between then and his prime that any kind of nexus amp is absolutely irrelevant when discussing prime Kun. This feat would be peanuts for him.

The difference between Dooku and Kun is that Dooku is throwing ships across a hangar. Kun is lifting the largest of those ships out of a temple that covers the pit it is buried beneath. He's lifting it up and out of an immensely deep pit with enough precision that it isn't damaged despite the pit itself not being wide enough to comfortably fit it through.

Straight up what lmao, "muh precision"

It doesn't matter if Dooku lifted up many of these ships simultaneously and chucked them around like footballs, because Exar Kun took one and maneuvered it real good hurr durr

Jake ragdolling

No it's that Kun straight up lifted the cruiser a good kilometer or two out of a cavern and then out of the massive temple that was built over said cavern.

Dooku threw a few extra ships for a much shorter time over a much shorter distance. Kun lifted the single ship for a much longer time upwards over a much longer distance.

You know, it's awfully funny that we're debating Darth Krayt and yet you fully ignore the fact that the Korriban nexus was so strong that it hid Krayt's presence in the Force to everyone who travelled there until he left after Endor. Meaning not even Darth Sidious when he travelled there could sense the presence of Krayt, such was the drowning effect of Korriban's nexus. This being the Sheev who could sense Vader's traitorous thoughts from across the galaxy and all that shit.

It's awfully funny how awful this comparison is. Sidious strolling onto Korriban and not passively sensing another dark sider is irrelevant. As of 23 BBY - the only relevant date in this context - it doesn't hide Dooku's power, and it doesn't even mask Omega's paltry (next to non-existent) power, so during this time period the nexus isn't as strong as when Krayt was lurking.

In JediQuest, the book Dooku does this in. It still causes hallucinations to the protagonists just like what it did to Meetra in the Dark Wars when she visited the tomb of Ludo Kressh.

This is because the potency of the tombs is far stronger than that of the hangar where the actual feat took place, which is on the far side of the planet. This is noted by Kenobi and co when they're in close proximity to the valley, as they start to feel 'cold' and drained of power, requiring an active resistance to stop the effects - something that wasn't present when they faced Dooku earlier. 

Is Korriban not as powerful as it once was? Indeed. Is it negligible to the power of Count Dooku? Lmfao, not at all. Vjun amped Dooku up to his eyeballs.

Yes, we know that dark side nexuses amp dark siders. Vjun should be more potent than Korriban still, even if we narrow it down to the tombs specifically. Upon entering Vjun, Whie immediately claims he has never felt such power before, making the planet stronger than the Jedi Temple nexus;

"Scout, it's incredible. There's something about this place-can't you feel it? I've never felt the Force so strongly." 
- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Dooku knows he's going to confront Yoda, and can do it on his own terms, meaning he has his pick of location and would logically choose the planet which is strongest in the dark side. Despite having been in the Valley of the Dark Lords himself, he opts for Vjun.
 
The facts are;
1. Korriban has been declining up until the time of Darth Bane.
2. During the Bane trilogy we see its potency drastically decrease, going from "a place of great power" to "faint and distant." 
3. Sidious notes that it keeps decreasing during his time, meaning that rate would continue for 1000 years, when Dooku is present. 

It's not merely weak compared to its former power, it's pissweak in general. The idea that this is contradicted by Sidious not passively sensing one guy on the whole planet is really dumb. The only uptick in power that the planet receives is late PT up to Legacy, which doesn't affect this debate.

The difference between Dooku and Kun is that Dooku is throwing ships across a hangar. Kun is lifting the largest of those ships out of a temple that covers the pit it is buried beneath. He's lifting it up and out of an immensely deep pit with enough precision that it isn't damaged despite the pit itself not being wide enough to comfortably fit it through.

What are you talking about? So you can't compare the feats then? You've changed this from a comparison of power into a mastery/precision debate. I think you've realised that Kun raising one cruiser out of a hole really nicely doesn't hold a candle to lifting and throwing that same ship, as well as 'numerous' others with ease. How was it lowered into the pit without damage in the first place if the width was such that it could barely be lifted without damage? Seems like lies to me.

Dooku's feat blows Kun's out of the water, the PT Korriban nexus is far weaker than TOTJ era Yavin's, the hangar bay isn't nearly as potent as any of the tombs, and Krayt disintegrates Kun with a wrist-flick.

LadyKulvax wrote:No it's that Kun straight up lifted the cruiser a good kilometer or two out of a cavern and then out of the massive temple that was built over said cavern.

Dooku threw a few extra ships for a much shorter time over a much shorter distance. Kun lifted the single ship for a much longer time upwards over a much longer distance.

The hangar bay is absolutely enormous;

Ry-Gaul led the way. "When I couldn't get in, I followed the wall back into the mountain. There's an old landing hangar. It's enormous - maybe a hundred service bays on each side. I got in through one of the end bays. That's where they are."

The hangar was so vast, it ended in darkness. Service bay after service bay ran down each side of the hangar, waiting to repair the ships that no longer arrived.
- Jedi Quest: The Final Showdown

Dooku easily threw many ships at once, with such force that he could 'fuse' two together and cause deafening noise. Kun lifted one ship out of a hole with his powers massively heightened. Source for the pit being a kilometre as well.

JediJuice wrote:

You know, it's awfully funny that we're debating Darth Krayt and yet you fully ignore the fact that the Korriban nexus was so strong that it hid Krayt's presence in the Force to everyone who travelled there until he left after Endor. Meaning not even Darth Sidious when he travelled there could sense the presence of Krayt, such was the drowning effect of Korriban's nexus. This being the Sheev who could sense Vader's traitorous thoughts from across the galaxy and all that shit.

It's awfully funny how awful this comparison is. Sidious strolling onto Korriban and not passively sensing another dark sider is irrelevant. As of 23 BBY - the only relevant date in this context - it doesn't hide Dooku's power, and it doesn't even mask Omega's paltry (next to non-existent) power, so during this time period the nexus isn't as strong as when Krayt was lurking.

In JediQuest, the book Dooku does this in. It still causes hallucinations to the protagonists just like what it did to Meetra in the Dark Wars when she visited the tomb of Ludo Kressh.

This is because the potency of the tombs is far stronger than that of the hangar where the actual feat took place, which is on the far side of the planet. This is noted by Kenobi and co when they're in close proximity to the valley, as they start to feel 'cold' and drained of power, requiring an active resistance to stop the effects - something that wasn't present when they faced Dooku earlier. 

Is Korriban not as powerful as it once was? Indeed. Is it negligible to the power of Count Dooku? Lmfao, not at all. Vjun amped Dooku up to his eyeballs.

Yes, we know that dark side nexuses amp dark siders. Vjun should be more potent than Korriban still, even if we narrow it down to the tombs specifically. Upon entering Vjun, Whie immediately claims he has never felt such power before, making the planet stronger than the Jedi Temple nexus;

"Scout, it's incredible. There's something about this place-can't you feel it? I've never felt the Force so strongly." 
- Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Dooku knows he's going to confront Yoda, and can do it on his own terms, meaning he has his pick of location and would logically choose the planet which is strongest in the dark side. Despite having been in the Valley of the Dark Lords himself, he opts for Vjun.
 
The facts are;
1. Korriban has been declining up until the time of Darth Bane.
2. During the Bane trilogy we see its potency drastically decrease, going from "a place of great power" to "faint and distant." 
3. Sidious notes that it keeps decreasing during his time, meaning that rate would continue for 1000 years, when Dooku is present. 

It's not merely weak compared to its former power, it's pissweak in general. The idea that this is contradicted by Sidious not passively sensing one guy on the whole planet is really dumb.

The difference between Dooku and Kun is that Dooku is throwing ships across a hangar. Kun is lifting the largest of those ships out of a temple that covers the pit it is buried beneath. He's lifting it up and out of an immensely deep pit with enough precision that it isn't damaged despite the pit itself not being wide enough to comfortably fit it through.

What are you talking about? So you can't compare the feats then? You've changed this from a comparison of power into a mastery/precision debate. I think you've realised that Kun raising one cruiser out of a hole really nicely doesn't hold a candle to lifting and throwing that same ship, as well as 'numerous' others with ease. How was it lowered into the pit without damage in the first place if the width was such that it could barely be lifted without damage? Seems like lies to me.

Dooku's feat blows Kun's out of the water, the PT Korriban nexus is far weaker than TOTJ era Yavin's, the hangar bay isn't nearly as potent as any of the tombs, and Krayt disintegrates Kun with a wrist-flick.

There's literally like less around ten years difference between when Krayt goes there to meet Xoxaan and the events of JediQuest (barely pre-AOTC). So unless you'd like to explain why Korriban suddenly jumped in power, just so you can convenienty claim its effects on Dooku aren't important, then I'll accept your L here.

I haven't changed it to a mastery debate, the main component involved is that Kun pushed it up against gravity to a far greater distance than Dooku did. That he could do so with precision is to show how much control he was able to exert as he lifted it, which goes to show how difficult it actually was. If he was busting his balls to lift it then he wouldn't be manipulating it mid-TK.

I am absolutely not lying at all, lmfao. Read the damn Omnibus:






As you can see, the ship was built deep beneath the temple, with no easy, visible way for the ship to leave. Kun doesn't even seem to think that the feat was a first 'good use' of his power.

So yes, the feat is immense and there's a degree of parity between it and Dooku's. 

This feat was also me baiting to see who'd bite. The idea that pre-GSW Kun is performing AOTC Dooku tier telekinesis is ridiculous but actually true. 

There's literally like less around ten years difference between when Krayt goes there to meet Xoxaan and the events of JediQuest (barely pre-AOTC). So unless you'd like to explain why Korriban suddenly jumped in power, just so you can convenienty claim its effects on Dooku aren't important, then I'll accept your L here.

The explanation was given; The Jedi arrive on Korriban and immediately sense Omega, Zan Arbor and later Dooku, meaning none of them were shielded by the planet. Either Krayt is weaker than random Sith-worshipping scrubs, or Sidious not sensing him wasn't due to Korriban masking his power. 

I haven't changed it to a mastery debate, the main component involved is that Kun pushed it up against gravity to a far greater distance than Dooku did. That he could do so with precision is to show how much control he was able to exert as he lifted it, which goes to show how difficult it actually was. If he was busting his balls to lift it then he wouldn't be manipulating it mid-TK. As you can see, the ship was built deep beneath the temple, with no easy, visible way for the ship to leave. Kun doesn't even seem to think that the feat was a first 'good use' of his power. So yes, the feat is immense and there's a degree of parity between it and Dooku's.  

I don't want to have to keep repeating myself, there's no comparison. Kun raises one ship, Dooku lifts and hurls 'a great many' with insane force. Kun is on the most potent part of Yavin, where it's noted that there are "tremendous energies concentrated in these half-ruined temples," whereas Dooku is on the weakest part of a declining Korriban. Neither Kun (supposedly) or Dooku are fully exerting themselves while performing the feat, making it impossible to gauge their upper limit in order for a comparison to be made. None of this is changed by 'but Kun lifted it really high though.'

This feat was also me baiting to see who'd bite. The idea that pre-GSW Kun is performing AOTC Dooku tier telekinesis is ridiculous but actually true.  

Genius dude.

or Sidious not sensing him wasn't due to Korriban masking his power. 

I imagine it's a combination of Korriban's nexus plus all of them actively concealing themselves. Also, it makes sense the planet's potency would rise again once the One Sith inhabit the world.

1.The better explanation is that the nexus wasn't suddenly much stronger when Krayt turned up. Given at this point he's roughly ROTS Kenobi tier then I don't see him being sub-Omega. Despite discrepancies, Korriban is still a major nexus. Given that Sheev frequented Korriban, he would obviously be able to figure out that Korriban had just gotten a shit ton stronger than the last time he'd been there but he doesn't because it isn't.

2.The relativity is the size of the ship, because they're the same one. Dooku has a few more smaller ships added on, Kun has far greater distance to cover.

3.It's kinda genius given the intention, but yeah it's far from Kun's best feat. By a huge margin, too.

DarthAnt66 wrote:

or Sidious not sensing him wasn't due to Korriban masking his power. 

I imagine it's a combination of Korriban's nexus plus all of them actively concealing themselves. Also, it makes sense the planet's potency would rise again once the One Sith inhabit the world.

The One Sith don't inhabit Korriban until 30ABY, Krayt was there by himself after ROTS until just after ROTJ.

LadyKulvax wrote:

Azronger wrote:There has not been a single time in Legacy when Muur has been above Krayt, not even in Vector when Krayt's at death's door. Even then, he demonstrated superiority to Celeste Morne who is Muur's equal by way of going head-to-head with him in a war of wills for over a century, in a way not all that dissimilar from Revan and Vitiate's case. Muur actively needed to basically double his power by merging with Celeste to match Krayt, and Krayt could still negate the majority of Morne-Muur's lightning's potency while having a lightsaber run through his shoulder simultaneously.

Really?

Insider 113 wrote:On Had Abbadon, in the Deep Core, Krayt confronted Skywalker a second time. But a third Force-user possessed powers that outshone them both. Karness Muur, an ancient Sith spirit, blasted Krayt with overpowering energy, sending him over a cliff to the rocks below.

Now, I'm assuming none of you are using epic Neph tier double-standards and hypocrisy. I wouldn't want to think that you'd dismiss this on the basis of the plural 'powers' when you don't dismiss the Malak quote on the same basis.

Would you say we should preemptively worry about everyone else's double standards when something like this happens?

But I'm curious as to what this quote means to you in your own words?

I'm only attempting to find at least some consistency between users on the two quotes. Everybody has dismissed the Muur quote due to the fact it says 'powers', as in plural, referring to techniques. Yet the same people don't do so when it comes to the Malak quote. Interesting to say the least.

LadyKulvax wrote:I'm only attempting to find at least some consistency between users on the two quotes. Everybody has dismissed the Muur quote due to the fact it says 'powers', as in plural, referring to techniques. Yet the same people don't do so when it comes to the Malak quote. Interesting to say the least.

But you seem to have your own idea of what the Krayt quote means aside from what other people think, so I'm curious to hear your own genuine thoughts on it.

Well it either means literal Force power or techniques, I think it's debatable either way. Both have merits. Context is paramount.

Jake slapping AP.

Jake breaking AP into pieces.

OT-Krayt.

He's literally been incapable of remotely suggesting that there isn't parity, hence no reply. Lmfao. Stop trying to bait when you're factually incorrect.

"Trying" would imply I wasn't successful, which I obviously was given your near immediate reply filled with more salt than the sea itself.

I'm not salty, Jake literally just lost. I'm merely amused that I've cucked you so badly that you have to follow my every post in every debate. Not as if you could be using this time replying in our debate. (Lmaoasifyoueverwill)

>Implying that writing out sentence long bait posts while working on Biology homework for school at three in the morning is time I could be using to write an SS post that requires significantly more energy than baiting.
>Posted a single opener yet claims I'm being cucked.

Yeah, even you cannot be this thick. Nice work falling for my bait a second time though.