Darth Krayt And Caedus vs Vitiate and Exar kun

Who wins?


-SWTOR Vitiate-

Bumping, assuming primes for all not designated I'm thinking team 2. SWTOR Vitiate and Kun are both undoubtedly better than Caedus, Krayt is absolutely never defeating both of team two no matter how hard the wank is. I'm not entirely convinced Krayt is > either of them in the first place.

Team 1.

team 1

Reasoning?
@The lord of hunger
@HellFireUnit

Seturna wrote:Reasoning?
@The lord of hunger
@HellFireUnit

better scaling and showings

I have Krayt and vitiate kinda close, but vitiate has more pure power. I see Krayt winning a fight because of his superior combat skills though. Caedus > Kun for sure, so T1 has this tbh.

Caedus isn't > Kun, I'm in an SS with the best Caedus debater on the forum and he essentially decided to forego Force comparisons.

Toying with the idea of Krayt soloing.

Team 1, but can't see anyone soloing.

Krayt is a much better fighter than Vitiate or Kun, and in raw power fucks around with beings on the city-singularity kind of level. SWTOR Vitiate and Kun are like large ship/small village level at best lol. I can't see either of them budging him with the Force.

I don't know what this reverse-scaling singularity logic is exactly but Krayt soloing is certainly kek-worthy with oak leaves, wings and five stars.

Also, given that Krayt was pushed back in a lightsaber duel by keking Muur, who just is not close to Kun and who's knowledge of lightsaber combat Kun inherits, I'm struggling to see how Krayt is 'far' ahead of him.

Vitiate doesn't need to be a better fighter when he knows exactly how to render lightsabers redundant.

LadyKulvax wrote:I don't know what this reverse-scaling singularity logic is exactly but Krayt soloing is certainly kek-worthy with oak leaves, wings and five stars.

Also, given that Krayt was pushed back in a lightsaber duel by keking Muur, who just is not close to Kun and who's knowledge of lightsaber combat Kun inherits, I'm struggling to see how Krayt is 'far' ahead of him.

Vitiate doesn't need to be a better fighter when he knows exactly how to render lightsabers redundant.

AP, I'm always in favor of wanking TOR, but that was a near-death Vong Krayt. Like, we'd have Vong Krayt stomped by fucking Pall if that was true lol.

1% Krayt being used to dewank Reborn is always good. AP is probably one of those people who argue Mustafar Vader dropped a tier because he got dry shampoo in his eyes that morning.

ILS wrote:1% Krayt being used to dewank Reborn is always good. AP is probably one of those people who argue Mustafar Vader dropped a tier because he got dry shampoo in his eyes that morning.

Tbh it doesn't make sense that Kenobi magically jumps a tier lol. It makes far more sense that Vader got cucked by his mental instability, evident by the dragon resurfacing.

ILS wrote:1% Krayt being used to dewank Reborn is always good. AP is probably one of those people who argue Mustafar Vader dropped a tier because he got dry shampoo in his eyes that morning.

I have accepted Krayt supremacy, but I think that we both know Kun is just fucking broken feats wise, I see why AP holds onto that seemingly dead character. When you have a guy who can TK rape the Corsair, scales above the dark reaper, and connects with his era as the most powerful of TOTJ, then apply Thon and Odan Urr, fucking supernovas.

Yeah, I get the Kun love tbh, even if he isn't exactly the most convincing at working around the places where Kun is locked.

Nah, it's the undeniable fact that Krayt being so pre-prime and physically poor doesn't escape the fact that he's grown immeasurably as a swordsman. Nor is Muur taking out Krayt, Cade, Maladi and the other Jedi and Imperial Knights there exactly dismissable in this conversation even considering Krayt's state.

Why? Because of the canonical fact that Muur's source of power was the Star Map and said map is immeasurably less potent than the Star Forge it serves as a guide to. Muur being fvcking nothing next to Malak doesn't serve well when the Malak/Traya level of power is literally a magnitude of power beneath Darth Nihilus who is canonically at best near Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun's predecessor. Or just use the other scaling chain of Odan Urr and Vodo being above all of the TOTJ Jedi Councillors who are canonically stated to be above Vandar, who is the most powerful Jedi High Council/Dantooine Enclave Councul member as of KotOR, the rest of whkm are individually on par with a Bastila who is more powerful than herself when she tanked Malak's corruption and power for a week.

So Reborn Krayt's power being twice as much as it was when he died isn't really making up for all of that.

If you're gonna make troll claims like Krayt solos, I can troll you far harder right back.

Hmm

Team one

Sadly won't have access to my PC for a while so I can respond in full to this thread and the Maul/Dooku one, but to kill some time in the airport lets do a quick overview of what AP thinks half of Reborn Krayt's power is:

On the eve of the Vong invasion, Krayt was tortured and experimented on by the Vong Shaper class to the point he "should have died." It was only after years of Force Healing and Stasis that he was able to heal from these injuries.

He was then nearly killed by Abeloth a couple of decades later "torn apart deeper than any lightsaber or blaster ever could". If we use Luke as an analogue, Krayt would be near death, missing a large chunk of his lungs/ribs, and would have a "slow to heal" wound to Force Essence.

Fast forward about 86 years later to 130ABY, Krayt's body is far beyond its natural life span, and the very augmentations the Vong gave him to extend his life have now started to consume him. He can "no longer ignore the deterioration" of his body as the coral seeds burrow into his muscle and bone, expanding, trying to consume his flesh and unravel his mind, turning him into a Vong spawn. The only thing keeping him afloat now is healing trances and stasis.

Between 130-137 ABY, Krayt stays out of Stasis to keep up appearances as emperor - even though killing merely 4 Imperial Knights caused him "fatigue" and to have "overextended" back in 130ABY. The deterioration of his body is now accelerating as a result. He has a fight with Cade that he states has "cost him", "weakening him" permanently after this point and causing him to return to Stasis.

He goes from saying he has "a decade or two" left pre Cade fight, to urging Wyyrlok to help him find a cure or he will "soon" be turned into a "mindless thing" (Vongspawn).

Now we get to the Vector fight. Krayt fights off a horde of Rakghouls, using lightning to fry them - if killing Imperial Knights 7 years prior was an "overextension" and fighting Cade cut decades from his life expectancy, this is pretty much pushing him to the brink.

He then duels Celeste Muurne, until she eventually embraces Muur's full power, at which point Muurne and 1% Krayt stalemate in a lightning duel. It is only when Krayt is run through with a lightsaber that Muurne is able to blast him directly with Lightning. He is hit full on, thrown from a 100m cliff and... is still strong enough to break his fall and survive.

He only "dies" when Wyyrlok blasts him to death with pillar-shattering lightning.. and even then he is able to burrow a vestige of his life force into his corpse until he can slowly begin to heal himself again.

So then we get to Reborn...

-Coral seeds are eradicated and Krayt is once again in "full control" of his body, at the "peak" of his powers, mastery and understanding of the Force
-He has healed or overcome any mental or spiritual wounds, such as those from fighting Abeloth or his checkered past
-He appears to have become far more youthful: he regrows his human arm, and his hair has gone from grey to black

The most marked difference between Vong and Reborn Krayt is this: despite the fact Cade's own powers have multiplied since he fought Krayt the first time, Reborn Krayt defeats him with even more ease and dominance; what was before a several page fight with Krayt blowing a gasket with anger has become a page and a half slaughterfest where Krayt keeps a calm, nonchalant attitude throughout, winning by awkwardly reaching past Cade's lightsaber guard and putting a palm on his chest, Dark Transferring him into submission. And it's important to emphasise that Cade is exponentially more powerful and masterful the 2nd time.

Kun doesn't even scale over Muur directly. The idea that he scales over Krayt because Muur failed to kill a quite literally near-death Krayt with a free shot of Lightning and a 100m+ cliff fall is lolworthy to say the least. All of this has already been sourced and repeated dozens of times, such as in the Krayt blog, so I'm not sure why certain undesirables keep trying to bring it back up; all it is is a testement to how freakishly powerful and strong willed Krayt is even in the most abysmal circumstances you could possibly create for him.

I am aware of literally everything you have just said and unfortunately, for you, my scaling works perfectly well. It's not even one line of scaling but two which compliment each other perfectly.

Simply put, Muur is nothing next to Exar Kun. If you want the even more direct scaling, it's simply Exar Kun > Marka Ragnos >>> Ajunta Pall >/~ Karness Muur. But that's not nearly as much fun.

Also, the feat I'm pertaining to is that of Muur simultaneously overwhelming Krayt whilst he beats the shit out of everyone else there, putting Maladi into a bacta tank, etc.

Even if you claim Reborn Krayt >>> Muur, it's still nowhere near where Muur scales up to because of the Star Map/Forge scaling. Nor does it do any favors that the Jedi Exiles suffer from being beneath the Golden Age Sith given how specifically the entire civilization has meant to have grown vastly in Force power due to mingling the bloodlines and then the rule of Ragnos.

So for one, Kun's DLOTS accolade only applies to his own time. Next, not aware of why Marka is above the Exiles? Third, Celeste Muurne > Muur.

Muurne at no point before Krayt being stabbed overwhelmed him.

You haven't coherently explained why these supposed gaps you are trying to headcanon into existence are bigger than the extremely well documented case history that points towards Vector Krayt being a fraction of Reborn Krayt's power. This is because it is quite literally impossible, and you're being both silly and dishonest.

No it doesn't, kek. Kun's accolade applies from his time of defeat, he can't be the most powerful of all the dark lords of the Sith when he's the only one left. Common sense, ILS.

The same can be said for Ragnos, he's overwhelmingly the top Sith of all time at the height of his rule. A reign which occurs at the height of the canonical golden age of the ancient Sith empire. Which is marked as such due to their rise in power collectively. Ragnos was GOAT, then so was Kun.

You attempting to handwave either of the prior canonical statements despite the overwhelming evidence and support; such as Kun being the only one worthy to inherit Ragnos' power and title since Ragnos' death, ells me you don't actually believe that Krayt's power literally growing ten times or whatever the fvck you're trying to prove is actually substantiated.

Nothing here is headcanon, Krayt isn't soloing anything. We can troll here all day, want to actually compare feats yet or do you want the entire forum to continue pondering if I'm right?

SF!Malak >>>> Muur/Pall is pretty brutal for Krayt, I must admit.

@LadyKulvax:

Caedus isn't > Kun, I'm in an SS with the best Caedus debater on the forum and he essentially decided to forego Force comparisons.

Just to clarify this was done due to the disparity in the type of performances they both have, not the quality (Which I don't think there's any way to assess). That being said if we take sabers as a rough proxy for power (Which I guess we can due to augmentation) I think Caedus is above Kun, but even if we don't, any power edge is basically useless due to Caedus's superior martial prowess, and Kun's inablity to ragdoll (Unless you think there's a Sheev/Maul disparity in which case I'd question why). I'm flattered by the compliment btw .

I don't see Caedus as Kun's superior in a sabers contest, hence my rebuttal. Besides, you'd have to assert that the edge in Force power isn't wide. Because Kun has plenty of telekinetic showings to compare and other feats besides that too.