TFU II Starkiller Vs. RotJ Luke

Who takes it?

Starkiller
He performed much better against a more powerful incarnation of Vader

I'm going to have to back RotJ Luke. Nobody has convincingly proven that Vader was hampered in RotJ, and every major source we have states that he brought his full strength and power to bear against Luke. And Luke stomped him hard. Blitzed Vader in the first 8 seconds of the fight onscreen when fighting aggressively. Absolutely stonewalled Vader to the point that Vader grew exhausted when Luke chose not to fight back at all. Completely and utterly stomped Vader when fully giving into his anger, to the point that Vader was incapable of fighting back at all.

Meanwhile, Starkiller could only hope for a stalemate against a Vader that was weaker than ANH Vader, who in turn was far, far weaker than ESB Vader, who is yet again weaker than RotJ Vader. The only way Starkiller beat Vader was through deception, not superior skill or power.

In a fair fight, Luke should stomp.

Starkiller is confirmed to be below ESB Luke. He gets curbstomped.

Luke

@vaelias

Why is TFU Vader>ROTJ Vader?

HellfireUnit wrote:Starkiller is confirmed to be below ESB Luke. He gets curbstomped.

I thought The Force Unleashed II happened in-between ESB & RotJ? So how is Starkiller weaker than a Luke who failed to beat a weaker (potentially) Vader than the one Clonekiller beat?

The Slick Obi wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Starkiller is confirmed to be below ESB Luke. He gets curbstomped.

I thought The Force Unleashed II happened in-between ESB & RotJ? So how is Starkiller weaker than a Luke who failed to beat a weaker (potentially) Vader than the one Clonekiller beat?

TFU II happens after TFU, but still a couple months before ANH. Vader objectively grows in power after TFU II, heading into ANH. From there, he grows again, massively, heading into ESB. And from both Shadows of the Empire and the RotJ novel, we know he grows further in power by the time of RotJ.

Add to that the fact that Starkiller's victory was highly circumstantial, and the fact that Starkiller was unable to beat or even harm Vader blade-to-blade. Starkiller had to rely on deception and a wound inflicted by Juno to actually gain the upper hand against Vader. Meanwhile, ESB Luke provided "better sport" for Vader than ANH Kenobi (who was ANH Vader's equal and proved a serious threat to Vader, as seen in the novel Death Star). Luke also landed at least two hits on Vader during the Bespin duel, one when he knocked Vader from the carbon freezing platform, and the other when he struck Vader's shoulder. This should all conclusively put ESB Luke above Starkiller. He inflicted more damage in a direct lightsaber duel against a stronger version of Vader than Starkiller could have hoped for in his duel at the end of TFU II.

Then we get to RotJ, where Luke can is shown to be capable of reliably defeating an even stronger Vader, and it's just not even a contest.

Luke stomps. Hard.

Underachiever599 wrote:

The Slick Obi wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Starkiller is confirmed to be below ESB Luke. He gets curbstomped.

I thought The Force Unleashed II happened in-between ESB & RotJ? So how is Starkiller weaker than a Luke who failed to beat a weaker (potentially) Vader than the one Clonekiller beat?

TFU II happens after TFU, but still a couple months before ANH. Vader objectively grows in power after TFU II, heading into ANH. From there, he grows again, massively, heading into ESB. And from both Shadows of the Empire and the RotJ novel, we know he grows further in power by the time of RotJ.

Add to that the fact that Starkiller's victory was highly circumstantial, and the fact that Starkiller was unable to beat or even harm Vader blade-to-blade. Starkiller had to rely on deception and a wound inflicted by Juno to actually gain the upper hand against Vader. Meanwhile, ESB Luke provided "better sport" for Vader than ANH Kenobi (who was ANH Vader's equal and proved a serious threat to Vader, as seen in the novel Death Star). Luke also landed at least two hits on Vader during the Bespin duel, one when he knocked Vader from the carbon freezing platform, and the other when he struck Vader's shoulder. This should all conclusively put ESB Luke above Starkiller. He inflicted more damage in a direct lightsaber duel against a stronger version of Vader than Starkiller could have hoped for in his duel at the end of TFU II.

Then we get to RotJ, where Luke can is shown to be capable of reliably defeating an even stronger Vader, and it's just not even a contest.

Luke stomps. Hard.

Oh, wow I was way off timeline wise. The only reason why I made this fight was because I thought it took place a few years later.

Fair. Yeah, with the gap in the timeline, it's just not a fair match up for Starkiller.

Underachiever599 wrote:Fair. Yeah, with the gap in the timeline, it's just not a fair match up for Starkiller.

Agreed. If a mod could lock this I would appreciate it.

Some people do have SK above Vader though so I don’t think we’d need to lock this, lol.

Seturna wrote:@vaelias

Why is TFU Vader>ROTJ Vader?

Wait what!? Idk why I said that I meant the other way around, so ROTJ Luke hahahaha I think it would be a good fight tho

Luke takes this handily.