Darth Maul vs Darth Caedus

Krayt Dies wrote:

Flunky Cyborg wrote:Dude... she beat him. Injured or not, Mara basically had him at her mercy till he cheapshotted her with a vision of her son. Pardon me if the details are wrong, but thats how I remember it, enlighten me if I am mistaken...

So I guess SK legitimately beat Vader then? Because you're basically conceding that's the case. What you're doing I could do with Vader and SK e.g. "Cheapshot or not SK still beat him. He had Vader at his mercy."

No... are you dull?
My point was caedus wasn't superior to Mara BECAUSE he had to cheapshot her to win, and we couldn't ascertain Caedus > Mara since he never showed dominance over her in his weakened state and we can't quantify his growth he recieved places him above Vader, don't tag me if you are going to misinterpret everything I say and counter with some off topic bullshit.

@Flunky Cyborg So Jacen giving Mara a great fight while environmentally disadvantaged and incredibly injured somehow means Mara is above him?



This is meme tier even for you. This is legitimately the worst argument I have ever seen.

DC77 wrote:@Flunky Cyborg So Jacen giving Mara a great fight while environmentally disadvantaged and incredibly injured somehow means Mara is above him?



This is meme tier even for you. This is legitimately the worst argument I have ever seen.

I never said that... just that we can't just assume he's >...

It's the same principle with Vjun Dooku, hypothetically he would be more powerful as of ROTS based on his growth rate, but since we have no way to quantify it, Dooku is not considered > Yoda

I would say that It's just unknown whether Mara or Jacen is above one another, hypothetically it would be Jacen, but agains, since there is no way to prove it, you can't use Mara as a concrete scaling chain

@Flunky Cyborg

No... are you dull?
My point was caedus wasn't superior to Mara BECAUSE he had to cheapshot her to win, and we couldn't ascertain Caedus > Mara since he never showed dominance over her in his weakened state and we can't quantify his growth he recieved places him above Vader, don't tag me if you are going to misinterpret everything I say and counter with some off topic bullshit.

Not asserting dominance doesn't mean he isn't better. The fact that he gave her a good fight under such circumstances shows he's better than her.

That argument though...

Krayt Dies wrote:@Flunky Cyborg

No... are you dull?
My point was caedus wasn't superior to Mara BECAUSE he had to cheapshot her to win, and we couldn't ascertain Caedus > Mara since he never showed dominance over her in his weakened state and we can't quantify his growth he recieved places him above Vader, don't tag me if you are going to misinterpret everything I say and counter with some off topic bullshit.

Not asserting dominance doesn't mean he isn't better. The fact that he gave her a good fight under such circumstances shows he's better than her.

How do you not get this? Qui-gon while exhausted and at an environmental disadvantage was able to drive Maul back, yet we know FOR A FACT, Maul > Jinn. Literally all I said was IDK and we can't determine Jacen as superior, I didn't say Mara was able to stomp him or even beat him under normal circumstances just that she is not an absolute concrete scaling chain, and it would be different if Caedus stalemated her... but he didn't he had a rousing fight with her for like a page and then got beaten, so i stand by my points, she is unuseable as a scaling chain...

@Flunky Cyborg

How do you not get this?

I do get this. I just don't agree with your premise.

Qui-gon while exhausted and at an environmental disadvantage was able to drive Maul back, yet we know FOR A FACT, Maul > Jinn.

Quote for Jinn being at an environmental disadvantage? Regardless all he did was briefly drive Maul back which isn't the same as Caedus fighting evenly with Mara for an extended period of time while in far worse condition than Jinn was against Maul.

Literally all I said was IDK and we can't determine Jacen as superior, I didn't say Mara was able to stomp him or even beat him under normal circumstances just that she is not an absolute concrete scaling chain, and it would be different if Caedus stalemated her...

It isn't different though. Fighting evenly and giving a gruelling fight to someone aren't massively different. My point still stands: Caedus duelled evenly with Mara for an extended period of time (landed numerous hits as well) despite numerous disadvantages indicating superiority.

but he didn't he had a rousing fight with her for like a page and then got beaten, so i stand by my points, she is unuseable as a scaling chain...

I know you're biased against Caedus but arguing you can't scale Caedus off Mara is asinine.

Yeah Tbh you may be right, I'll review those shit books and material and get back to you, not a concession just have to make sure I didn't forget anything.

Maul in all

@Flunky Cyborg:

Im sorry how does he scale beyond mara?

Because he gave her a great fight while hurt so badly he could barely stand and environmentally disadvantaged. Mara doesn't even beat him either, he falls through a hole in the floor and Mara takes advantage of that to pounce on the unarmed Jacen. Attributing Jacen's victory as a "cheap shot" and then ignoring the circumstances that allowed her to gain the upper hand is hilariously ironic. Furthermore it's not impossible to assert that Jacen is better, the gap between a Jacen who can barely stand and his peak self is undoubtedly smaller than the gap between his injured self and Mara, a gap that is totally non existent. This is a concept called "basic logic" which may seem rather alien to you. Still following? Good.

How does he scale beyond Durron?

Because three reliable characters state his superiority flat out, all of whom are intimately familiar with both of them. Furthermore these aren't throwaway lines but comments with clear narrative impact on the story, you are going against the intent of the authors when they wrote the books. Let's look at which is more likely:

>Luke is the only one powerful enough to take Jacen head to head, as he outright states, hence why they send Jaina, a desperate gambit not with the intention of her being powerful enough to bring him down but having the necessary skills and attributes to do so.

>Luke was actually wrong, as was everyone else (Nobody disagrees with Luke's statement, not even Kyp himself) and Kyp who nobody advocated sending, was powerful enough to send Jacen into next week.



Somehow I don't think the second one was the author's intention (I could go into more detail by assessing the narrative intentions between the others but I'll leave it here for now, I feel like you get the point).

Durron has muh mental blocks,

Why would Luke, Leia and Jacen be factoring in mental blocks that don't even affect Kyp's power level?

IIRC the feat he has in LOTF is like AOTC Anakin level,

Enlighten me on why effortlessly TK moving a 55m ship is AOTC Anakin level? Not that it matters, Kyp has better feats than that anyway.

and he is stated to be more powerful via character opinions,

Addressed above.

for example the most common counter to Nick Rostu Vastor scaling is that he is an unreliable witness,

And it took us a paragraph of shit to get to a point about Vader in a thread that has nothing to do with him. Lol, but seriously, why is somebody who's marginally sane, with no real way to assert the power level of Vader and Vastor the same as 3 reliable characters who are perfectly capable of gauging the two's respective power levels?

much the same Luke claims "try Jacen, he can do just about anything these days" he has a high opinion of Jacen so he is unreliable.

Luke's high opinion of Jacen is based on his force power... how that makes him unreliable is beyond me. He has no emotional attachment left to Jacen as of Invincible where Jacen is a sith lord reigning terror on the galaxy.

Leia is more interesting since we know she loves her son but also resented what he was, I'll leave her at an unknown.

Leia literally states multiple times throughout LOTF that Jacen is no longer her son and agrees to have him killed...

Then we have Jacen's own opinion of himself which is proven false in the past, he muses he is stronger than Luke, yet we clearly see the opposite.

This is the true gem of the post. Jacen admits inferiority to Luke, he never once claims to be better. Jacen has an ego sure but he's never demonstrated himself to be outright delusional or stupid, he's actually quite intelligent.

Durron has better feats, more consistent scaling and didn't get absolutely cucked by Aurra sing or His sister.

You know the context of both of those, I won't waste my breath explaining it to you again. As for Durron having better feats, even if he does it's not of consequence (I won't agree or disagree because either way, it doesn't matter). It's clear narratively that Durron was Jacen's inferior, the intent is written all over the novels lol.

Honestly dude, your civility skills are almost as bad as Caedus is in h2h

Do me a favor, next time spare the shitty comments and maybe I'll respond, until then you are not worth my time no reason to quibble today.

So the scaling goes

Kun>Muur=/>Krayt>>Cade>Maul>Caedus

???

Sounds about right

And Caedus is > Vader

Lmao.

Curry is right as per usual.

And Vader is > any incarnation of Galen Marek

This scaling seems legit

Dude I'm down. Vader > Galen is pretty dope he can be sub caedus

>Galen ragdolls Vader.

>Galen is sub-Vader.

Circumstances

Baseline Anakin is > Dooku but Anime Anakin is >>> Dooku

In other words

Doesn’t count

In other words

Shaak Ti was legitimately the better fighter

Circumstances

I like how you ironically say this tbh because the Shaak Ti fight was riddled with circumstances.

What kind of bullshit is this? Ti legit tags him throughout the duel, while she was busy holding back the Darkside on Felucia yeet

No lol

Light side nexus which was generated by her superior power, you mean?

Never once noted that he was even bothered by it

Just excuses made up by Galen sympathisers tbh

Lmao. I can't believe I'm seriously engaging with you despite knowing you're a troll. Whatever I concede I can't be bothered writing out more useless responses.

He literally said from day 1 that he didn't want to troll here...