Darth Maul vs Darth Caedus

ROUND 1: Sabers
ROUND 2: Force Only
ROUND 3: All Out

-standard rules apply

Maul tbh

@SithArchaeologist in all 3?

Here's the problem, It's easy to lowball Caedus, and personally I don't like the character, however...
Ranking him fairly is also difficult because of the inconsistencies of his book series. From a completely unbiased pov I hold him at Jerec level, Jerec beats Maul, BUT... Maul stomps in sabers, since caedus is a bit of a fucktard who goes saber to saber most of the time Maul wins, Final Verdict.

Caedus in all three, round 2 is not that great of a fight

Maul

Either way.

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:@SithArchaeologist in all 3?

Yes. Caedus just isn't impressive.

Caedus in a good fight. Saying that Caedus isn’t impressive is simply wrong.

YVH Cilghal wrote:Caedus in a good fight. Saying that Caedus isn’t impressive is simply wrong.

Even though it has circumstance you have to admit the mando and aurra showings drag him down a bit, hence why I have him Jerec level...

Flunky Cyborg wrote:

YVH Cilghal wrote:Caedus in a good fight. Saying that Caedus isn’t impressive is simply wrong.

Even though it has circumstance you have to admit the mando and aurra showings drag him down a bit, hence why I have him Jerec level...

Both have circumstances attached, the first one in particular.

YVH Cilghal wrote:Caedus in a good fight. Saying that Caedus isn’t impressive is simply wrong.

Maul has a better version of all of Caedus' feats.

@SithArchaeologist

Elaborate. I personally think this fight could go either way and I want to be persuaded on which side wins.

Krayt Dies wrote:@SithArchaeologist

Elaborate. I personally think this fight could go either way and I want to be persuaded on which side wins.

Caedus' only real feat of note is his fight with Luke, which we can effectively throw out. Not only does Luke always constrain himself significantly, but he wasn't trying to kill Caedus, only inflict severe pain (which he did). Additionally, Luke's rage would have clouded his judgement, combat ability, and Force connection. A much better indicator of how Caedus and Luke stack up against each other is when Luke effortlessly pinned Caedus, and despite Caedus pouring his full strength into freeing himself, Luke didn't even have to gesture. Under normal circumstances, Luke can one-shot Caedus with ease, whenever he pleases.

Other than that fight, Caedus doesn't have anything of note. His best TK feat, to my understanding, is aiding in holding the Falcon together through reentry. Needless to say, that isn't equivalent to Maul being able to power through Kenobi's Force defenses at will, or even young Maul's capability of ripping down a set of barracks.

Is it within anyone's capabilities to provide reasons here?

In terms of telekinesis you'll have a hard time matching Durron with Maul's feats which are literal horse shit by comparison, yet Durron is inferior to Jacen per Luke, Leia and Jacen himself. There's no reason to assume any of the three are wrong in their assessment either, contrary to popular belief. To go against these statements is to go against the clear narrative intent of the books, and considering Durron's environmental TK that doesn't leave Maul in a very good position to compare.

As far as pure combative performance is concerned Jacen performed respectably against Jaina when she had Luke's power stacked on top of her own, despite Jacen having suffered injuries beforehand (There was a gaping hole in his shoulder due to sniper round), that's better than anything Maul has to bring to the table. Furthermore, ISV's idiocy notwithstanding, no serious undermining of Jacen can be done through either his performances against the Mando or Sing. Sing managed to use various distractions and circumstantial advantages to land hits on Jacen but still ended up getting restrained by an unarmed Jacen and having her knee dislocated within a few moves. The Mando caught an exhausted Jacen off guard, we've seen how Jacen conventionally fairs against these guys. He wipes out an entire team of them without breaking a sweat.

Ultimately I definitely think Maul's got what it takes to give Jacen headaches and cause him serious bother but I don't see him winning. Jacen takes this after a great fight (Besides maybe the sabers round but Jacen's insane pain tolerance and ability to predict his opponents moves goes a long way).

SithArchaeologist wrote:

YVH Cilghal wrote:Caedus in a good fight. Saying that Caedus isn’t impressive is simply wrong.

Maul has a better version of all of Caedus' feats.

He scales vastly beyond Mara Jade, who could hold an entire ceiling while weakened by the YV comb spores.

@SithArchaeologist That's not Jacen's best TK feat...

@SithArchaeologist

Caedus' only real feat of note is his fight with Luke, which we can effectively throw out. Not only does Luke always constrain himself significantly, but he wasn't trying to kill Caedus, only inflict severe pain (which he did). Additionally, Luke's rage would have clouded his judgement, combat ability, and Force connection. A much better indicator of how Caedus and Luke stack up against each other is when Luke effortlessly pinned Caedus, and despite Caedus pouring his full strength into freeing himself, Luke didn't even have to gesture. Under normal circumstances, Luke can one-shot Caedus with ease, whenever he pleases.

I agree that Luke and Caedus aren't relative but that doesn't mean Caedus isn't impressive.

Other than that fight, Caedus doesn't have anything of note. His best TK feat, to my understanding, is aiding in holding the Falcon together through reentry.

To my knowledge, Caedus's best TK feat is throwing a 40m ship like a football (happened in Swarm War I think) without too much difficulty.

Needless to say, that isn't equivalent to Maul being able to power through Kenobi's Force defenses at will, or even young Maul's capability of ripping down a set of barracks.

What has Kenobi done that's so impressive? As for the barracks feat, I don't think it's relevant unless you want to entertain 15-year-old Maul being above Caedus.

SithArchaeologist wrote:

Krayt Dies wrote:@SithArchaeologist

Elaborate. I personally think this fight could go either way and I want to be persuaded on which side wins.

Caedus' only real feat of note is his fight with Luke, which we can effectively throw out. Not only does Luke always constrain himself significantly, but he wasn't trying to kill Caedus, only inflict severe pain (which he did). Additionally, Luke's rage would have clouded his judgement, combat ability, and Force connection. A much better indicator of how Caedus and Luke stack up against each other is when Luke effortlessly pinned Caedus, and despite Caedus pouring his full strength into freeing himself, Luke didn't even have to gesture. Under normal circumstances, Luke can one-shot Caedus with ease, whenever he pleases.

Other than that fight, Caedus doesn't have anything of note. His best TK feat, to my understanding, is aiding in holding the Falcon together through reentry. Needless to say, that isn't equivalent to Maul being able to power through Kenobi's Force defenses at will, or even young Maul's capability of ripping down a set of barracks.

The fact that Luke can one-shot Caedus doesn’t work as an argument because nothing prevents him from doing the same to Maul.

Im sorry how does he scale beyond mara?

How does he scale beyond Durron? Durron has muh mental blocks, IIRC the feat he has in LOTF is like AOTC Anakin level, and he is stated to be more powerful via character opinions, for example the most common counter to Nick Rostu Vastor scaling is that he is an unreliable witness, much the same Luke claims "try Jacen, he can do just about anything these days" he has a high opinion of Jacen so he is unreliable. Leia is more interesting since we know she loves her son but also resented what he was, I'll leave her at an unknown. Then we have Jacen's own opinion of himself which is proven false in the past, he muses he is stronger than Luke, yet we clearly see the opposite.

Durron has better feats, more consistent scaling and didn't get absolutely cucked by Aurra sing or His sister.

Also "despite ISVs idiocy"

Thats a personal attack. Against the forum rules, you are begging for another Ban aren't you?

Flunky Cyborg wrote:Im sorry how does he scale beyond mara?

How does he scale beyond Durron? Durron has muh mental blocks, IIRC the feat he has in LOTF is like AOTC Anakin level, and he is stated to be more powerful via character opinions, for example the most common counter to Nick Rostu Vastor scaling is that he is an unreliable witness, much the same Luke claims "try Jacen, he can do just about anything these days" he has a high opinion of Jacen so he is unreliable. Leia is more interesting since we know she loves her son but also resented what he was, I'll leave her at an unknown. Then we have Jacen's own opinion of himself which is proven false in the past, he muses he is stronger than Luke, yet we clearly see the opposite.

Durron has better feats, more consistent scaling and didn't get absolutely cucked by Aurra sing or His sister.

First, the novel makes it clear Caedus was the one at a disadvantage during his fight with Mara, considering that she dropped a tunnel on him before the fight begun and she had an environmental advantage through the tunnels they were in, that favored Mara’s shoto lightsaber: 

The rumbling began. She brought down both sections of tunnel, before and behind, with a massive exertion in the Force that made her breathless. She didn't hear him call out. Even in the damp conditions, clouds of fine debris filled the air and made her choke.
...
Killing her was the test: the words of the prophecy were meaningless, and at a visceral level he knew that her death was the pivotal act. He didn't know how, and this wasn't the time to stop and think about it. He surrendered totally to instinct for the first time in ages. Whatever guided a Sith's hand had to guide him now.

But he was hurt, and badly.

Ben ... he didn't know where Ben fitted into this, but now he knew he did, as surely as he knew anything. Jacen didn't care, because he knew he had to kill Mara now and nothing else would make sense until he did that.

He fumbled for his lightsaber and thumbed it into life again. Mara was already back on her feet, coming at him with the shoto and vibroblade, brick dust and black-red blood snaking down her forehead from a scalp cut. She leapt at him with the shoto held left-handed, fencing-style, seared the angle of his cheekbone, and caught him under the tip of chin with the vibroblade as he jerked back.


She shouldn't have been able to get near him. He had total mastery, and she was just athletic and fast. He pushed back at her in the Force, sending her crashing against a wall with a loud grunt, but she kept coming at him, one-two, one-two with the shoto and the blade, and he was being driven back, his strength ebbing. He needed space to fight.
-sacrifice

Now that i’ve established this, let’s look at Mara’s feat in balance point, where she held a massive ceiling with the force for several hours. 

"Three retorts like richocheting projectile shots sounded overhead. Startled, she glanced up. A crack opened in the stoney ceiling. It branched, branched again, and again.
She waved jaina toward the tunnel, crying Run! A chunk of stone hit the floor beside her.
Jaina reached the doorway. All around them ceiling, walls of soft rock crumbled. Mara pushed Jaina ahead if her, reaching deep inside herself, trying to divert each stone as it fell. She split a dozen with her lightsaber.
But they fell too thickly. As rock dust choked off the light ahead and behind her, she pushed Jaina down, fell on her, and pushed out with the force. She kept the presence of mind to extinguish her lightsaber.
The noise went on, like a powerful waterfall, for several age long seconds.
Jaina rolled out from under her. She'd killed her lightsaber too. In utter darkness, mara couldnt see what Jaina was doing, but she did hear a plaintative ow!.
Hit your head? Mara asked quietly.
"Slightly" Momentary silence. "Your re keeping that up with the force?"
No. Just my radiant personity. She softened her voice. Do u still have the rebreathers?"-Balance Point.

Dude... she beat him. Injured or not, Mara basically had him at her mercy till he cheapshotted her with a vision of her son. Pardon me if the details are wrong, but thats how I remember it, enlighten me if I am mistaken...

Flunky Cyborg wrote:Dude... she beat him. Injured or not, Mara basically had him at her mercy till he cheapshotted her with a vision of her son. Pardon me if the details are wrong, but thats how I remember it, enlighten me if I am mistaken...

She beat a Caedus terribly injured (he said he was “badly hurt”) and had an environmental advantage. I don’t know about you but i really don’t think anyone would fight at his best under such circumstances. Plus there’s the matter that this Caedus ( and the one that has difficulty against Aurra sing, i might add) was well before his prime, especially considering how he was growing stronger each day.

Flunky Cyborg wrote:Dude... she beat him. Injured or not, Mara basically had him at her mercy till he cheapshotted her with a vision of her son. Pardon me if the details are wrong, but thats how I remember it, enlighten me if I am mistaken...

So I guess SK legitimately beat Vader then? Because you're basically conceding that's the case. What you're doing I could do with Vader and SK e.g. "Cheapshot or not SK still beat him. He had Vader at his mercy."