Potential Matchups

tulakhord1998 wrote:Kit Fisto vs Quinlan Vos

tulakhord1998 wrote:Sora Bulq vs Bastila Shan

Darth Zannah vs Depa Billaba

Kit Fisto vs Quinlan Vos

Sora Bulq vs Bastila Shan

Darth Malgus vs Depa Billaba

Savage Oppress vs Jax Pavin

Padawan Kenobi vs Barris

Scourge (TOR) vs Darth Vader

CuckedCurry wrote:So Darth Malgus would be able to display better bladework feats than TPM Windu?

LOTL wrote:Why exactly is Mace not reliable then?

Darth Zannah vs Depa Billaba

Kit Fisto vs Quinlan Vos

Sora Bulq vs Bastila Shan

Darth Malgus vs Depa Billaba

Savage Oppress vs Jax Pavin

Aurra Sing vs Teneb Kel

Padawan Kenobi vs Barris

Scourge (TOR) vs Darth Vader

Vader. Being at the very least 80% of RotJ Sidious is way more powerful than Scourge.

Why exactly is Mace not reliable then?

tulakhord1998 wrote:Which are so one sided that they're not even worth doing

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:@Xolthol:

Vader. Being at the very least 80% of RotJ Sidious is way more powerful than Scourge.

Can you demonstrate why that's the case? Fact is is that it's an unquantifiable, randomly chosen statistic that's prefaced with a "maybe", and still puts one shot gap between him and Sheev. But if you want to go with Lucas then let's talk about the time he said TPM Kenobi was better than Vader. I'm sure Vader is definitely on Scourge's level based off that.

George Lucas wrote:We've actually never seen real Jedi at work, we've only seen crippled half-droid half-men and young boys that have learned from these old people. So to see a Jedi in his prime fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I want it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing.

BoD wrote:

Why exactly is Mace not reliable then?

Kar Vastor: 


I could not answer; Vastor has power on the scale of Master Yoda, or young Anakin Skywalker. And I had no desire to debate with Depa on Jedi tradition, and the necessary distinction between dark and light.
-

The shape smoked with power. More power than Mace had ever felt.
V.S

It didn't matter. There was no doubt in Nick's mind that, were Kar Vastor somehow to be pitted against Darth Vader, the feral Balawai renegade wouldn't stand a chance.

The Force was powerful in Vader; even the dim wattage of Nick's connection could feel that. It was far more powerful than it had been in Kar Vastor. It had pulsed from Vastor in waves of fury, blasted like an open furnace. In Vader, it was-contained. Pent.


Yoda: 


"Master Yoda is many things, and I am not his equal in peace or war,"
V.S 
"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor,"
-
''A respected Jedi with powers on a par with those venerable Yoda, Mace Windu was a senior member of the Jedi High Council, and his wisdom and judgement were legendary.''
-
A respected Jedi on par with the venerable Yoda, Mace Windu was a senior member of the Jedi High Council.


Obi-Wan:
In fact, Obi-Wan, I believe that of all living Jedi, you have the best chance to defeat him
-
"I am called a great swordsman because I invented a lethal style; but who is greater, the creator of a killing form—or the master of the classic form?"
V.S
Sidious is a level nine. On this film, Obi is eight-he's moved up-Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine.
-
You have to be either Mace or Yoda to contend with the Emperor. 


I can probably find more if you'd like, but Mace has a habit of either overestimating other Force user's abilities and massively underestimating his own. Even if Depa's bladework outshone his, we don't have the context for it or evidence that this outright means she can outperform him in a spar or duel as of TPM. 

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:@SithSauce:

George Lucas wrote:We've actually never seen real Jedi at work, we've only seen crippled half-droid half-men and young boys that have learned from these old people. So to see a Jedi in his prime fighting in the prime of the Jedi, I want it to be a much more energetic and faster version of what we've been doing.

Learn to read properly. Lucas isn't just saying that Kenobi has "faster and more energetic" saber duels, he's explicitly stating that Kenobi is a "real Jedi" in comparison to Vader, who is a "crippled half-droid half-man", and that he's using the "faster and more energetic" choreography to convey that belief. And you wonder why the Vader brigade isn't taken seriously when its supporters evidently haven't taken basic reading classes.

Running at 600kph, blocking omnidirectional blaster fire from 10,000 battle droids, fighting Anakin Skywalker head-to-head—these feats should be well beyond what he should be able to do. So yes, he’s the greatest.

LOTL wrote:

Running at 600kph, blocking omnidirectional blaster fire from 10,000 battle droids, fighting Anakin Skywalker head-to-head—these feats should be well beyond what he should be able to do. So yes, he’s the greatest.

Or his potential is that great? Yoda has Mace, Anakin and late CW Ahsoka teaming to fight Obi Wan who has turned, which shows how much more powerful he can become if he turns to the dark side. Ventress outright says that Dooku sees "great promise" in Obi Wan and that he can "easily" replace her, and we know how much potential Ventress really has meaning his own potential is actually vast.

The text doesn't have to eulogize his power or talent every time like Anakin lol. He has enough quotes putting him as a powerhouse clearly. The reason that the text is not ringing with his power or potential in the force is because his role as a character and in the lore is much more than just being a big muscleman for the Jedi( unlike Anakin who literally has nothing to his character other than being powerful) hence they are lost among real character development

I don't think you understand the argument then. It's not unlike you to ignore the true meaning of things, I shall elaborate.

Yes, Lucas is saying Vader and the other members of the OT are not "real Jedi." As in they aren't "faster and more energetic" like the Prequel Jedi, the argument is that for the OT this refers to technical skill and the flamboyant nature of their blade-work hence Vader not being "real Jedi" and a "crippled half-droid half-man."

But again we run into a problem don't we? It's not specifically age that Lucas is talking about here

Often ignored entirely, this helps us piece together what the quote actually means, it is the technical skill that is inferior to that of TPM Kenobi.

Given this new depth of understanding we can now add this quote back into the current continuity where we see Vader is able to compete with these Jedi who are "fighting in the prime of the jedi" during the purge and I'm guessing you don't want to contest the idea that the OT is his prime, which then leads you to the inevitable conclusion: OT character's don't have the technical refinement of the PT Jedi but by Vader's nature he must be able to compete with them.

If you need one more piece we have Vader's own thoughts from "In His Image" where he considers his lightsaber style in relation to Anakin's as of 19bby: