Arcann runs the NJO gauntlet

Geistalt wrote:Dies at 7, possibly 6 if you think Caedus is a better combatant than suit Vader.

Geistalt wrote:Caedus got dominated by Luke telekinetically (no matter how hard he tried to move he couldn't lift a finger, much less get out of his chair—and Luke didn't even have to gesture)

That, and he barely survived the fight against Luke on the Anakin Solo, and even then, it was only because Ben Skywalker's life being at risk served as an ample distraction

Geistalt wrote:Additionally, if you look at Caedus' lifetime overall, he had only been a Sith for a year, and you could assume that he didn't grow nearly enough to be as dire a threat as Vader+ threats such as Kueller from 40-41 ABY

(to assume otherwise—to assume that he grew from being insignificant in the face of Luke's TK and lightsaber skills to being strong enough to fare well against him, unlike how he did on the Anakin Solo, is to condense the bulk of his growth in Force and combative power to 1 year out of the 32 he lived).

(to assume otherwise—to assume that he grew from being insignificant in the face of Luke's TK and lightsaber skills to being strong enough to fare well against him, unlike how he did on the Anakin Solo, is to condense the bulk of his growth in Force and combative power to 1 year out of the 32 he lived).

They stood together in the large air lock adjacent to the hangar bay where Jacen’s shuttle waited. The docking tube was pressurized and coupled to the shuttle’s side. Ben, unconscious, was aboard, strapped onto a seat with his lightsaber once again hooked to his belt.
“I know this was hurtful,” Lumiya said. “But you have been strengthened by it already.”
Jacen, pained, looked at her. “Words, Lumiya. He will strengthen himself through pain. They don’t diminish the tragedy of what just happened, not at all.”

And he was growing closer to Luke's strength by the day.

EmperorCaedus wrote:On top of this, it is known that when light-siders turn to the dark, that their abilities increase tenfold, so that line of reasoning doesn't make any sense either.

Proof?

I'm not trying to debate; I just want to know why you think Vader would be pinned immotile in a chair if he confronted Luke from 40 ABY.

NotAA3 wrote:What evidence is there for LotF: Betrayal Jacen Solo > Katarn and Durron? 

MasterCilghal wrote:

NotAA3 wrote:What evidence is there for LotF: Betrayal Jacen Solo > Katarn and Durron? 

Jacen thinks he’s more powerful than any of the masters in the book immediately afterwards (Bloodlines), a quote that’s referring to developed power given that he goes on to say that he’s coming closer to Luke’s strength each day. 
However, I do believe that might be a case of arrogance, which would make sense in the context of his character, intent notwithstanding. 

Jacen thinks he’s more powerful than any of the masters in the book immediately afterwards (Bloodlines), a quote that’s referring to developed power given that he goes on to say that he’s coming closer to Luke’s strength each day.

Betrayal is the first installment of LotF. Sacrifice is the fifth installment, in which he gets his sacrifice amp.

Moreover, Bloodlines happens after Betrayal, meaning Jacen wouldn't have the quotes Cilghal is mentioning yet, including Jacen "growing closer to Luke's strength by the day".

NotAA3 wrote:@EmperorCaedus

Betrayal is the first installment of LotF. Sacrifice is the fifth installment, in which he gets his sacrifice amp.

I'm well aware he gets an amp from killing Mara in the fifth book, but that's not what I'm referring to. He likewise gets one in the first book, from what I remember of what my brother told me. @ScionOfSkywalker77, will you care to shed some light on the subject?

Moreover, Bloodlines happens after Betrayal, meaning Jacen wouldn't have the quotes Cilghal is mentioning yet, including Jacen "growing closer to Luke's strength by the day".

Sure, he's gaining greater power by the day, but that doesn't mean we can't use the quote from Bloodlines and apply it to his Betrayal self. Him growing doesn't necessitate the growth is massive, and I very much doubt his power is jumping ridiculously from day to day.

EmperorCaedus wrote:@NotAA3 @MasterCilghal: Betrayal is the first installment of LotF. Sacrifice is the fifth installment, in which he gets his sacrifice amp. Moreover, Bloodlines happens after Betrayal, meaning Jacen wouldn't have the quotes Cilghal is mentioning yet, including Jacen "growing closer to Luke's strength by the day".

You were specifically referring to his sacrifice amp, which is why there was confusion

Legacy of the Force: Betrayal wrote:"You'll give her appropriate rites?" Jacen asked. Lumiya nodded. "She was a noble warrior. I will treat her as such."

They stood together in the large air lock adjacent to the hangar bay where Jacen's shuttle waited. The docking tube was pressurized and coupled to the shuttle's side. Ben, unconscious, was aboard, strapped onto a seat with his lightsaber once again hooked to his belt.

"I know this was hurtful," Lumiya said. "But you have been strengthened by it already."

Jacen, pained, looked at her. "Words, Lumiya. He will strengthen himself through pain. They don't diminish the tragedy of what just happened, not at all."

"It's not a cliche, Jacen. It's a necessary component of the ethical assumption of our powers." She gestured out past the shuttle and the hangar doors, to the unseen stars. "The Jedi find their balance through the abandonment of attachment. The Sith celebrate attachment .. . but find our balance in the deliberate, agonizing sacrifice of some of the things we love most. Only by that means can we retain our appreciation for loss, pain, mortality-those things that ordinary people experience."

Jacen considered. Her words made sense. Such a philosophy would allow the Sith to retain their passion . . . but pain would keep those passions in check. Sith like Palpatine had not followed this principle, had followed philosophies of gain without loss, and their greed had doomed them and everyone around them.

Including Jacen's grandfather, Darth Vader.

"You will be the man your grandfather couldn't," Lumiya said. "Go home, do what you can to stop the war, and to free up time to study. Eventually you will need to find yourself an apprentice. Ben may be worthy, but I think he is already too steeped in the Jedi ways of softness and serenity, so look elsewhere, as well as at him. You'll need to train to open your mind to facets of the Force you've been instructed to ignore or despise. And your greatest attainment of knowledge and power will come at the same time as your greatest act of sacrifice, when you give up something that is as dear to you as life-making your love immortal through its sacrifice."

"We'll see," he said.

I didn't say that, I was replying to Cilghal's use of the quote, stating that Jacen doesn't have that quote until the second book