Re: Your top 10 most powerful characters (Canon Only)

May 10th 2020, 1:13 am

Not counting Mortis Anakin, Mortis gods, power of all the Jedi and Sith

1. & 2. RotJ Luke / RotJ Vader
3. Mace Windu
4. Palpatine
5. Yoda
6. Kirak Infil’a
7. RotS Anakin / RotS Obi-Wan
9. & 10. Prime Ahsoka / Prime Maul

May 15th 2020, 5:22 am

no, just no

November 15th 2020, 4:42 pm

Mind sharing the quote where Vader says Palatine > Bendu

November 15th 2020, 5:03 pm

Thrawn Alliances wrote: “But understand this. All the strength of the creature you faced on Atollon pales in comparison with the power of the Emperor. Are you truly willing to risk his anger?”

November 15th 2020, 7:18 pm

Seturna wrote:

Thrawn Alliances wrote: “But understand this. All the strength of the creature you faced on Atollon pales in comparison with the power of the Emperor. Are you truly willing to risk his anger?”

Nice one

December 24th 2020, 11:46 am

Seturna wrote:

Thrawn Alliances wrote: “But understand this. All the strength of the creature you faced on Atollon pales in comparison with the power of the Emperor. Are you truly willing to risk his anger?”

could this mean anyone else?

December 24th 2020, 11:59 am

Father
Daughter/Son
Rey
Sheev
Luke
Yoda
Daka
Talzin
Mace

December 24th 2020, 3:32 pm

Excluding mortis dieties, bendu, force apparitions

RoSheev Palpatine
--Gap in power--
Post Mandalorian Luke skywalker
ROS Dyad(ben solo/ Rey Palpatine)
Snoke - (In power alone, though in applicable combative ability he falls to where i hold dooku due to his advanced DS Degradation of his frail body)
ROTS Yoda
Suited Darth Vader
ROTS Mace Windu
DD Quinlan Vos
Darth Tyranus
-Gap in power-
Kirak In'filia

Runner up list ( Not in specific order )

ROS Supreme leader Kylo Ren
SOD Maul
ROTS Obi Wan kenobi
Lord Momin
Ahsoka Tano - The Mandalorian

( i hold all of the above very close to each other, so thats why theyre in no particular order )

December 24th 2020, 3:50 pm

Kirak isn't even above post prime Koth Your top 10 most powerful characters (Canon Only) - Page 3 4037459623

December 25th 2020, 8:43 am

No Amps
1.ROS/ROTJ Sidious(maybe it is a surprise to you but he alredy had All Sith power in ROTJ)
2.ROTS Yoda
3.Post ROTJ Luke( I am not sure about him, but he clearly above both Rey and Kylo. He also defeated Vader sooo...)
4.ANH Darth Vader(extremely strong feats achieved with relative ease)
5.Mother Talzin(stood against Palpatine and Dooku in Force contest, was equal to Mace in lightsaber combat)
6.Old Ben(defeated Maul in three strikes, stood against prime Vader)
7.Dooku(scales to Yoda, ragdolled ROTS Kenobi)
8.Rebels Ahsoka(defeated Maul, stood against Vader, could handle for a while Sidious's Magic)
9.Season 7 CW Darth Maul(could contend with Sidious in lightsaber combat for a while, fought against Mace and Aayla Secura in a same time, disarmed Ahsoka, ragdolled CW Kenobi, stomped Savage Opress)
10.Mace Windu(not as good as everybody think)

January 28th 2021, 2:43 pm

After Az's latest blog, I am even more confident in my top 3 picks.

February 8th 2021, 11:57 pm

6.Old Ben(defeated Maul in three strikes, stood against prime Vader)

A highly circumstantial duel, where Kenobi was deemed "unbeatable" by Filoni. However on even ground they were equals, according to Filoni again.

7.Dooku(scales to Yoda, ragdolled ROTS Kenobi)

No version of Dooku scales to Yoda, and Kenobi was caught off guard with the force.

8.Rebels Ahsoka(defeated Maul, stood against Vader, could handle for a while Sidious's Magic)

Rebels Maul, who is post prime, is confirmed above Rebels Ahsoka by starwars.com. And she didn't defeat Rebels Maul either.

10.Mace Windu(not as good as everybody think)

Oh my goodness Your top 10 most powerful characters (Canon Only) - Page 3 1220391476

February 12th 2021, 12:54 pm

iamthatguy wrote:

6.Old Ben(defeated Maul in three strikes, stood against prime Vader)

A highly circumstantial duel, where Kenobi was deemed "unbeatable" by Filoni. However on even ground they were equals, according to Filoni again.

7.Dooku(scales to Yoda, ragdolled ROTS Kenobi)

No version of Dooku scales to Yoda, and Kenobi was caught off guard with the force.

8.Rebels Ahsoka(defeated Maul, stood against Vader, could handle for a while Sidious's Magic)

Rebels Maul, who is post prime, is confirmed above Rebels Ahsoka by starwars.com. And she didn't defeat Rebels Maul either.

10.Mace Windu(not as good as everybody think)

Oh my goodness

First, about Ben. He defeated Maul in three strikes. This is fact. Second, Dooku. Both, in canon and legends, his fight against Yoda in AOTC proves, that he is worthy opponent for him and during CW he is growing stronger, maybe just a bit, but he does. Third, Ahsoka. She stood against prime S7 Maul and actually dissarmed him and she grew more powerful during first Empire decade. Soooo.... Last. Mace Windu is to high, yes.

February 17th 2021, 11:48 pm

First, about Ben. He defeated Maul in three strikes. This is fact.

Never said it wasn't fact, I simply explained the circumstances as to why Maul was three-shotted.

Second, Dooku. Both, in canon and legends, his fight against Yoda in AOTC proves, that he is worthy opponent for him and during CW he is growing stronger, maybe just a bit, but he does.

Dooku proving he can't be ragdolled by Yoda doesn't mean he scales to him rofl.

Third, Ahsoka. She stood against prime S7 Maul and actually dissarmed him and she grew more powerful during first Empire decade. Soooo....

So Ahsoka being dominated by a mentally hindered and disinterested Maul is your argument?

Do you know what mine is? Starwars.com explicitly saying Rebels Maul (post prime) is > Rebels Ahsoka.

Last. Mace Windu is to high, yes.

Your top 10 most powerful characters (Canon Only) - Page 3 3363707401

March 4th 2021, 6:28 pm

1)Rey (All Jedi)
2)Palpatine (All Sith)
3)Luke Skywalker
4)Snoke
5)Yoda
6)Darth Vader
7)Bendu
8)Mace Windu
9)Mother Talzin (on Dathomir)
10)Count Dooku
11)Quinlan Vos (could be 10 probably)
12)Kirak Infila
13)Obi Wan Kenobi
14)Darth Maul
15)Ahsoka Tano
16)Lord Momin
17)Kylo Ren
18)Assajj Ventress
19)Savage Oppress
20)General Grevious

May 14th 2021, 3:01 pm

BreakofDawn wrote:Not including amps:
https://thebestpaintballgun.info/for-kids
1. Sidious.
2. Luke.
3. Yoda.
4. Mace Windu.
5. Vader.
6. Snoke.
7. Anakin.
8. Dooku.
9. Obi-Wan.
10. Maul.
10. Ahso

my favorite 1Luke.
2. Yoda.
3. Mace Windu.
4 Vader.
5. Snoke.

June 25th 2021, 2:01 pm

iamthatguy wrote:

First, about Ben. He defeated Maul in three strikes. This is fact.

Never said it wasn't fact, I simply explained the circumstances as to why Maul was three-shotted.

Second, Dooku. Both, in canon and legends, his fight against Yoda in AOTC proves, that he is worthy opponent for him and during CW he is growing stronger, maybe just a bit, but he does.

Dooku proving he can't be ragdolled by Yoda doesn't mean he scales to him rofl.

Third, Ahsoka. She stood against prime S7 Maul and actually dissarmed him and she grew more powerful during first Empire decade. Soooo....

So Ahsoka being dominated by a mentally hindered and disinterested Maul is your argument?

Do you know what mine is? Starwars.com explicitly saying Rebels Maul (post prime) is > Rebels Ahsoka.

Last. Mace Windu is to high, yes.

Starwars.com never said maul>ahsoka. That you went out of your way to say "explicitly" when it is at best an implicit interpretation, (and there are alternate interpretations which are actually supported by the specifics of the quote and the episode where maul defines "strength" for ezra as "not showing mercy" and proceeds to kill the inquistor while she's helpless while trying to turn ezra to the dark side) is kind of confusing.

https://www.starwars.com/series/star-wars-rebels/twilight-of-the-apprentice-episode-gallery-2
The very next sentence in the quote you're using says "maul implores ezra to find the same strength inside him that is used by the sith. Fighting without mercy or remorse will make them victorious." Ahsoka had the inqusitors dead to right within seconds in a 1 v2 duel in her rebels debut, but the fight was prolonged becasue ahsoka refused to take a killing strike. Maul had an inqusitor at his mercy and immediately killed her. later in the same episode when ahsoka simply disarms an inqusitor, maul goes ahead and kills him.

Contextually, the quote is referring to conviction, not combative prowess which would be a fairly silly interpretation given we've seen ahsoka take seconds to knock out inqustors and filoni has explicitly stated they aren't a challenge for her.

We have an actually explicit statment from feloni outlining that season 7 ahsoka(who is explicitly stated to have grown vastly as of rebels) could "compete on the level" of maul backed up by her showing in the actual episode where she had the upper hand for the opening minuite on nuetral ground.

Then in rebels she has an upperhand on maul on a nexus and holds her own vs a force attack from post rots sidious, a character whose weaker cw version had zero issue dominating maul and oppress simulateously. Finally, Ahsoka is shown in a lengthy duel with vader only ceding grounda fter a minuite and a half have transpired. Vader off course being far stronger than maul by feats and scaling. Both via maul and maul's direct superiors, ahsoka is shown to be stronger. Feloni's context secifically applies to ahsoka being beating maul, where maul, being cocky assumes he can simply physically overpower ahsoka which(as we've seen repeatedly now) he can't. But trying to force a vast disparity between two combatants we say fight evenly without the hijinx of a constructoin site is wishful. In the first half ahsoka has the upper hand landing the biggest(and most potentially dangerous) hit. And then in the second half maul gians the upper hand and then chokes it due to over confidence. It's possible to argue would win that fight more often than not, but arguing for a large gap here is silly.

As for kenobi, again, we have an explcit statement from feloni that kenobi is "better" than maul in reference to the episode where he beats him in addition to several statements implaying kenobi has grown stronger since tcw where we saw a beaten up kenobi have maul dead to rights withtin a few seconds of their first fight, and a healthy kenobi duel evenly with maul and oppress at the same time.

Combining all that it's pretty silly to have maul on par, let alone above either. Both have him beat on feats and direct comparison and indirect comparison via maul's superiors(anakin, vader and sidious). Vader's fight with Ahsoka is more even than maul's duel with a pre-prime kenobi.

As for the ranking here. From my understadnign of canon it goes

1..(ALL THE SITH) Sidious
2.. Luke
3. Snoke
4/5. Yoda/Vader
6/7.8. Anakin/Windu/Bendu
9/10/11 Kenobi/Ahsoka/Dooku
Slashes are for places where it's not really clear cut.

If there's some new sort of character/scaling or whatever that's emerged, you guys(esepcially galan) are welcome to bring me up to speed.

June 25th 2021, 2:14 pm

The Witness wrote:1. Luke Skywalker
2. Darth Sidious
3. Yoda
4. Darth Vader
5.Mace Windu
6. Anakin Skywalker
7. Ahsoka Tano/Count Dooku
8. ROTS Kenobi
9. Darth Maul
10 Savage Opress

Dunno where to rank ST characters

Well kylo by feats has pulled off way more impressive stuff than a padawan than what we've seen from maul. And rey's tie feat is a lot more impressive than s7 ahsoka's ship pulling.

Also grevious did pretty well vs kenobi in tcw though he's, er, inconsistent. There's usually some sort of context. In theory grevious is apparently>fisto plus his padawan. But it gets tiring yelling "context" for everything.

June 25th 2021, 2:17 pm

Galan007 wrote:Excluding the Mortis Gods...

1.) RoS Palpatine: Kylo stated that he was more powerful than anyone he had ever encountered(which automatically scales him above Luke/Snoke)... And that was when Palpatine was still in his rotting clone body.

2.) Post-RotJ Luke: Was already Vader's equal in RotJ. He then spent yearS scouring the galaxy for any Jedi-related material he could get his hands on -- including Jocasta Nu's cache, as well as the High Republic vault. He also studied the ancient texts, and communed with the spirits of Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin. Point being: canon ST-era Luke would have logically been one of(if not *the*) most knowledgeable Force users ever in the mythos... And if he was able to reach Vader's level in the 3 years between ESB and RotJ without any real guidance other than his training with Kenobi and Yoda, just imagine the levels he ascended to when he obtained the greatest wealth of Force-related knowledge in the galaxy, and had a few decades to study/master what he learned.

3.) Snoke: Luke heavily implied that he was equal to [RotJ] Palpatine.

4.) Bendu: His placement depends how literally you take Vader's statement that Palpatine was more powerful.

5.) Yoda: Roughly equal to RotS Sidious, and generally regarded as the most powerful Jedi up to that point.

6.) Vader: Nothing in canon suggests that his power did anything but increase over the years. He might also be higher on the list, depending on what you think the discrepancy in power was between he and Palpatine.

7.) Mace: Most sources state/imply that he bested Palpatine in combat.

8.) DD Vos: He was ~/> Dooku.

9.) Dooku: Extremely powerful, obviously, but still 2x weaker than Yoda (during AotC, at least.)

10.) Kenobi

...Something like that.

I forgot about vos lol.

How are you distingusing between kenobi/ahsoka/dooku. The rebels versions of kenobi and ahsoka probably have some sort of relativity with vader. Hell, depending on how much effort you think was being put into it, ahsoka isn't immediately incinerated by post rots sid.

June 29th 2021, 3:36 pm

@freethedevil Ahh, I finally get to engage with the legendary Kbro. I have been waiting for this moment. Let's begin.

Starwars.com never said maul>ahsoka. That you went out of your way to say "explicitly" when it is at best an implicit interpretation, (and there are alternate interpretations which are actually supported by the specifics of the quote and the episode where maul defines "strength" for ezra as "not showing mercy" and proceeds to kill the inquistor while she's helpless while trying to turn ezra to the dark side) is kind of confusing.

It's not confusing at all actually. Thankfully though, we have clarification on what the quote means so users like you cannot apply bad faith arguments. The quote operates based off logic, this is derived from "the logical choice pairing". Based on logic, Maul is paired with the weakest of the Jedi, and logic dictates the strongest are paired with the weakest so they can survive. Therefore, Maul is the strongest, Ezra is the weakest, Ahsoka and Kanan are in the middle.

https://www.starwars.com/series/star-wars-rebels/twilight-of-the-apprentice-episode-gallery-2
The very next sentence in the quote you're using says "maul implores ezra to find the same strength inside him that is used by the sith. Fighting without mercy or remorse will make them victorious." Ahsoka had the inqusitors dead to right within seconds in a 1 v2 duel in her rebels debut, but the fight was prolonged becasue ahsoka refused to take a killing strike. Maul had an inqusitor at his mercy and immediately killed her. later in the same episode when ahsoka simply disarms an inqusitor, maul goes ahead and kills him.

Quite the reach I must say, and quite easily debunked as well. You see, the reason Kanan didn't want Maul to go with Ezra in this first place is because he didn't want Ezra to become corrupted by Maul. So saying that Kanan allowed Ezra to go with Maul because he wanted him to fight like a Sith is silly, though I don't expect more from a debater of your caliber.

Contextually, the quote is referring to conviction, not combative prowess which would be a fairly silly interpretation given we've seen ahsoka take seconds to knock out inqustors and filoni has explicitly stated they aren't a challenge for her.

Funny, because before Maul showed up, Kanan and Ahsoka were having quite some trouble with the inquisitors.

We have an actually explicit statment from feloni outlining that season 7 ahsoka(who is explicitly stated to have grown vastly as of rebels) could "compete on the level" of maul backed up by her showing in the actual episode where she had the upper hand for the opening minuite on nuetral ground.

A Maul who has consumed by a "strange sense of dread" for weeks. Clearly not a Maul fighting at his peak:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/kbro110.jpg

Furthermore, just to prove that S7 Maul is not at his peak, we have SOD Maul easily beating Grievous in sabers (Grievous who wrecked S7 Kenobi), while in season 5 Ahsoka gets absolutely fodderized by Grievous, and S7 Ahsoka is no better than S5 Ahsoka:

Dooku was possessed by Talzin and fought Sidious, while Maul easily drove Grievous away.

Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File Remake #070

So we have SOD Maul>>Grievous>>>S7/S5 Ahsoka

Then in rebels she has an upperhand on maul on a nexus

Unfortunately she doesn't hold the upperhand, actually the opposite. And unfortunately the nexus argument goes both ways since Ahsoka is no longer a Jedi and can tap into the darkside as well. Furthermore, it's said that nexi can amp force users, meaning it's not guaranteed. So you would need to find a way to prove that Maul was amped by Malachor in the first place.

and holds her own vs a force attack from post rots sidious, a character whose weaker cw version had zero issue dominating maul and oppress simulateously.

Again, incorrect. Multiple sources state that the brothers were winning against Sidious before he separated them and that the fight itself was "intense" and "furious":

https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/kbro_210.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/kbro_310.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/kbro410.jpg

Let's also not forget the fact that Sidious showed strain throughout the fight:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/77867210.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/74961610.jpg

And the fact that Maul ragdolled Sidious in the extended scene, which is confirmed Canon:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/78612710.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/77574810.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/78276710.png

This is without bringing up Shadow Conspiracy, which only further cements my point, and refutes yours.

Finally, Ahsoka is shown in a lengthy duel with vader only ceding grounda fter a minuite and a half have transpired. Vader off course being far stronger than maul by feats and scaling.

Source: https://www.christianpost.com/trends/star-wars-rebels-season-3-news-ep-talks-about-darth-maul-darth-vader.html

Funny actually, the entire reason Maul vs Vader was removed was because Maul was going to "diminish" Vader per Filoni, and Filoni didn't want to diminish Vader's power:

"The nerd-tacular obsession with Vader vs. Maul. It’s hard to say – I mean, Vader is hard to top. Something George is pretty adamant of all the time was that Vader, you know… You never want to do anything to diminish him."

So yeah, unfortunately Maul was going to have a better performance against Vader than Ahsoka. The cherry on the cake is that this is post prime Maul:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/76397610.jpg

Also, just wondering, what are these feats Rebels Vader has that puts him far above Maul? His best feat around this time is the walker feat, which is in the same ballpark (could be argued more or lesser) than Maul's hyperdrive feat. And that's a hindered Maul.

Both via maul and maul's direct superiors, ahsoka is shown to be stronger. Feloni's context secifically applies to ahsoka being beating maul, where maul, being cocky assumes he can simply physically overpower ahsoka which(as we've seen repeatedly now) he can't.

He can't? Weird. I seem to remember him casually disarming her 3 times throughout the fight. A hindered Maul. Interesting.

But trying to force a vast disparity between two combatants we say fight evenly without the hijinx of a constructoin site is wishful. In the first half ahsoka has the upper hand landing the biggest(and most potentially dangerous) hit. And then in the second half maul gians the upper hand and then chokes it due to over confidence. It's possible to argue would win that fight more often than not, but arguing for a large gap here is silly.

I agree, I don't think there is a large gap between S7 Maul and S7 Ahsoka, but there is a definite edge for Maul.

Now SOD Maul vs Ahsoka, oof. Poor girl.

As for kenobi, again, we have an explcit statement from feloni that kenobi is "better" than maul in reference to the episode where he beats him

Filoni also said Season 1 Anakin can easily beat Grievous despite Grievous consistently trashing Obi-Wan throughout TCW, even in the cut Utapau Arc which is apart of Canon. Unless you're willing to back up S1 Anakin>>>S7 Kenobi, I suggest you do what I do and completely disregard Filoni's statements.

in addition to several statements implaying kenobi has grown stronger since tcw where we saw a beaten up kenobi have maul dead to rights withtin a few seconds of their first fight,

Seems to me that you're omitting context to favor Kenobi, not surprised. Yes, let's forget that Maul had a new pair of legs that were completely foreign to him, as well as the fact that he had been out of practice and been going insane for 12 years. Now I'm not going to pull a Kbro and pretend Kenobi wasn't hindered either, but to say Kenobi was more hindered than Maul is laughable to the nth degree.

And as for the fight itself, while Kenobi did hold the upperhand over Maul at first, Maul started winning toward the end. I'm talking pre dun moch, when he kicked Kenobi twice and forced him to retreat to higher ground.

and a healthy kenobi duel evenly with maul and oppress at the same time.

Again, omitting context:

1. The cave is stated to hinder the brothers per Shadow Conspiracy
2. Kenobi is stated to be focus amped per Filoni and Shadow Conspiracy
3. Maul still has his velociraptor legs which we know is a hindrance to his mobility
4. Kenobi catches the brothers off guard with his offense per Shadow Conspiracy

And even with all those hindrances, Kenobi only lands one kick on Maul. Uno. All the rest of his physical blows are on Savage. And what does Maul do when he tires of the duel? He throws the amped Kenobi into the wall, which is what the brothers plan was in the first place: to subdue and capture Kenobi.

Even if you want to say Kenobi is a better duelist than Maul under the above conditions, which he isn't, it's still demonstrably so that Maul is far more powerful than Kenobi even when amped, as he is still able to ragdoll him with ease. Twice.

Combining all that it's pretty silly to have maul on par, let alone above either. Both have him beat on feats and direct comparison and indirect comparison via maul's superiors(anakin, vader and sidious). Vader's fight with Ahsoka is more even than maul's duel with a pre-prime kenobi.

*Insert Luke saying funny everything you said was wrong image*

July 8th 2021, 12:52 am

wank wrote:

It's not confusing at all actually. Thankfully though, we have clarification on what the quote means so users like you cannot apply bad faith arguments. The quote operates based off logic, this is derived from "the logical choice pairing". Based on logic, Maul is paired with the weakest of the Jedi, and logic dictates the strongest are paired with the weakest so they can survive. Therefore, Maul is the strongest, Ezra is the weakest, Ahsoka and Kanan are in the middle.

"The quote operates on logic." What? "operates on logic" is at best some random tatuology that applies to everything and at worst is random gibberish you came up with to sound smart. Strength can mean different things and the quote gives us a pretty clear definition to work with:

starwars.com wrote:"maul implores ezra to find the same strength inside him that is used by the sith. Fighting without mercy or remorse will make them victorious."

If you want strength to mean something else in this context, you'll need to provide an argument based on surrounding context since there is no explicit clarification that strength is referring to maul's ability to beat ahsoka in a fight. If you are willing to address what i provided you and make a case for your interpretation of "strength" here, then we have something to discuss. If not, I'm going to take that as a concession this quote is irrelevant. At any rate "explicit" was explicitly wrong since you are drawing an inference.

wank wrote:Quite the reach I must say, and quite easily debunked as well. You see, the reason Kanan didn't want Maul to go with Ezra in this first place is because he didn't want Ezra to become corrupted by Maul. So saying that Kanan allowed Ezra to go with Maul because he wanted him to fight like a Sith is silly, though I don't expect more from a debater of your caliber.

Huh? How does "the fight went longer than it had to because ahsoka passed up multiple killing blows" have anything to do with "corruption."? Not to mention malachor being a dark side nexus...

wank wrote:
Funny, because before Maul showed up, Kanan and Ahsoka were having quite some trouble with the inquisitors.

Well we never saw maul beat an inqusitor on his own. What we did see was maul making quick work of inqusitors since he quickly killed them whenever an ally presented him an oppurutnity. Relevant to the logc referenced in the sw.quote, not relevant to how maul would engage in a duel.

wank wrote:A Maul who has consumed by a "strange sense of dread" for weeks. Clearly not a Maul fighting at his peak:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/kbro110.jpg

You do realize sith feed of emotions like fear, right? Why would we assume this made maul weaker....

wank wrote:Furthermore, just to prove that S7 Maul is not at his peak, we have SOD Maul easily beating Grievous in sabers (Grievous who wrecked S7 Kenobi), while in season 5 Ahsoka gets absolutely fodderized by Grievous, and S7 Ahsoka is no better than S5 Ahsoka:

Maul never beat Grevious with the lightsaber. He bfr'd him using telekensis ultimately doing no damage. The only time either of each broke the other's defenses in heir duel was when grevious sent maul flying with a kick. There's nothing here that suggests maul is better swordsman or combatant.

Grevious didn't fight ahsoka in season five, he fought her in season 3, and i'm not sure how you can argue he "fodderized her". He was unable to get an opprutnity for a kill in roughly a minuite of fighting, ahsoka was able to get some good hits and for part of the fight was even able to drive him back. Watching the fight doesn't give me the impression grevious can fodderize her, it tells me that she can give him a fight as of season 3 which itself shows massive progression from seaosn 1 or 2 when she first encoutered grevious.

"S7 ahsoka is no better than S5 ahsoka"Is baseless and not even relevant here. As it is, we've seen ahsoka become vastly more effective against the same combatant within a couple of seasons. Not really sure why we'd assume she couldn't have been stronger as of season 7...

wank wrote:Dooku was possessed by Talzin and fought Sidious, while Maul easily drove Grievous away.

...Via BFR
Your analysis might benefit from actually reading the comic....

wank wrote:Unfortunately she doesn't hold the upperhand, actually the opposite. And unfortunately the nexus argument goes both ways since Ahsoka is no longer a Jedi and can tap into the darkside as well. Furthermore, it's said that nexi can amp force users, meaning it's not guaranteed. So you would need to find a way to prove that Maul was amped by Malachor in the first place.

Ahsoka isn't a darksider...

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/do-nexuses-exist-in-canon-1908650/
And yeah nexuses are a thing.

wank wrote:Again, incorrect. Multiple sources state that the brothers were winning against Sidious before he separated them and that the fight itself was "intense" and "furious":

https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/kbro_210.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/kbro_310.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/kbro410.jpg

Let's also not forget the fact that Sidious showed strain throughout the fight:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/77867210.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/74961610.jpg

And the fact that Maul ragdolled Sidious in the extended scene, which is confirmed Canon:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/78612710.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/77574810.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f86/20/30/38/24/78276710.png

Fair enough. Stupid as all of that is, it is what it is. Apparently everyone scales from sidious now

Ahsoka presumably faced a stronger version of sidious, but there's no real way to comapre the two performances since one was a tutaminis thing and the other a 2 v 1 duel.

wank wrote:This is without bringing up Shadow Conspiracy, which only further cements my point, and refutes yours.

Shadow conspiracy implies that sidious could have speed blitzed maul so, no. Not really.

Wank wrote:
So yeah, unfortunately Maul was going to have a better performance against Vader than Ahsoka. The cherry on the cake is that this is post prime Maul:

The quote seems to imply to me that maul being able to fight vader would be seen as an insult. I have no idea how you got "maul was going to give vader a better fight than ahsoka" from that....

We have conflicting statements on wheteher maul has grown stronger or weaker though I'm inclined to think he would be stronger here. Regardless, what you assume does not constitute an argument and I have no interest in accepting assumptions of yours without compelling reasons to.

wank wrote:Also, just wondering, what are these feats Rebels Vader has that puts him far above Maul? His best feat around this time is the walker feat, which is in the same ballpark (could be argued more or lesser) than Maul's hyperdrive feat. And that's a hindered Maul.

A much weaker version of vader gradually dropped a much bigger freighter of the freighter we see maul dragging off a cliff at full effort. Additionally disney vader, is sronger than, and has the same force potential as anakin who, in case you forgot, was making quick work of dooku.

wank wrote:He can't? Weird. I seem to remember him casually disarming her 3 times throughout the fight.

He disarmed her and nothing came of it because ahsoka repeatedly clowned him in h2h. This is anaglous to saying that the 19 celtics were better than the bucks because they outshot them from three. The goal isn't to hit more threes, it's to put points on the board. Maul disarmed ahsoka. Then he got kicked in the face,. Then he got kicked out of a window. Advantage: Ahsoka.

wank wrote:Filoni also said Season 1 Anakin can easily beat Grievous despite Grievous consistently trashing Obi-Wan throughout TCW, even in the cut Utapau Arc which is apart of Canon. Unless you're willing to back up S1 Anakin>>>S7 Kenobi, I suggest you do what I do and completely disregard Filoni's statements.

Feloni doesn't need to be the gospel for his statements regarding what he made to have value. But sure, if you want to take authorial statements out of the equation we can do that. Kenobi beats maul, therefore he is > maul. We have a clear cut non contradictory explanation for this, but the explanation being ignored doesn't help maul as kenobi won.

wank wrote:Seems to me that you're omitting context to favor Kenobi, not surprised. Yes, let's forget that Maul had a new pair of legs that were completely foreign to him, as well as the fact that he had been out of practice and been going insane for 12 years. Now I'm not going to pull a Kbro and pretend Kenobi wasn't hindered either, but to say Kenobi was more hindered than Maul is laughable to the nth degree.

Frankly we don't really have a way to quanitfy their hindrances. But I don't have to, because kenobi effectively won two seperate times before outside circumstances gave maul an oppurtunity to get the upper hand. Having someone dead to rights, not once, but twice is worth far more in my book than landing a couple kicks(kicks kenobi recovered from in very short order). As it is, we saw them unhiindered. Kenobi landed a hit maul needed several seconds to recover from and then outfought maul and his brother. If you want to go by shadow conspiracy, kenobi was getting the better of maul in the 1 v1 portion of things. As it is, shadow conspiracy's reasoning for maul being hindered was overwritten by the episode since the two brothers were fighting on either side of kenobi. Focusing is jedi practice. If you want to prove that kenobi focusing himself is beyond what he is typicaly capable of, go ahead. Otherwise, i'm going to dimiss the claim that kenobi was amped since as ithings stand, such a claim is baseless.

wank wrote:And even with all those hindrances, Kenobi only lands one kick on Maul. Uno. All the rest of his physical blows are on Savage.

He staggers maul for several seconds, sends him flying back, and then drives him back with a flurry. All insances where kenobi, with only a few seconds of focused pressure, was able to break maul's defenses or force him to a retreat. Then consider he was simulateously working oppress and this is a clear win for Kenobi.

wank wrote:Even if you want to say Kenobi is a better duelist than Maul under the above conditions, which he isn't, it's still demonstrably so that Maul is far more powerful than Kenobi even when amped, as he is still able to ragdoll him with ease. Twice.

He has used the force to beat kenobi exactly once without external help. Their first encounter had kenobi effectively winning within seconds and their last encounter had kenobi getting the better of maul both in their 1 v1 and a 2 v1. It's also worth noting that maul's only win here comes via a legends comic. In a purely canon universe, there's little to no argument to be made for maul even as of tcw.

August 12th 2021, 1:19 pm

1. Vader
2. Sidious
3. Luke
4. Anakin/Yoda
5. Mace
6. Dooku
7. Obi Wan
8. Maul
9. Vos
10. Ahsoka

August 18th 2021, 6:35 pm

Top 10 Canon most powerful characters

Palpatine - could control Snoke like a puppet and connect Rey with Kylo from Exegol, being able to change bodies and drain Force power to further enhance himself
Luke - even without using the Force for years, as soon as he used it again was able to make an illusion that fooled everyone from halfway across the Galaxy
Kylo Ren - could connect and interact with Rey even though being Solar Systems away from her and basically "fight her through Skype" (remember that in VIII he said the effort alone of doing such a thing would kill her)
Ezra Bridger - had such powerful telepathic control that was able to summon the "Hyperspace Whales" during battle
Darth Vader - could choke his underlings that were in other ships and even contact Luke mentally from Solar Systems away
Leia - could survive the vacuum of Space and even save herself from such harsh conditions
Caleb Dume - was able to hold a large explosion and save his friends ship
Yoda - could hold lightning with his hands, lift Luke's X-Wing and had the ability to feel things around the Galaxy such as Order 66 and Anakin killing Tusken Raiders
Maul - was able to summon Ezra to Tatooine and was so powerful he could change blaster fire direction and throw Obi-Wan's and Adi Galia's spaceship to delay enemies
Savage Opress - Force repulse could defeat various droids and with just a brief pause to concentrate was able to Force Push Obi-Wan's and Anakin's ship, destroying it

October 16th 2021, 8:07 am

I will not include gods or amped people. Every character I will list is their prime version unless I say otherwise:

1. Darth Sidious
2. Luke Skywalker
3. Darth Vader
4. Yoda
5. Mace Windu / Anakin Skywalker
6. Maul
7. Count Dooku
8. Obi-Wan Kenobi
9. Ahsoka Tano
10. Kylo Ren

I am open to being corrected if anyone has any objections to my scaling

June 16th 2022, 6:44 am

Cody555 wrote:I will not include gods or amped people. Every character I will list is their prime version unless I say otherwise:

1. Darth Sidious
2. Luke Skywalker
3. Darth Vader
4. Yoda
5. Mace Windu / Anakin Skywalker
6. Maul
7. Count Dooku
8. Obi-Wan Kenobi
9. Ahsoka Tano
10. Kylo Ren

I am open to being corrected if anyone has any objections to my scaling

Ahsoka scales above maul pretty cleanly now. She can "compete on his level" as of tcw and then gets "vastly more skilled"(felonji, guidebook). Latest source books also have vader "lightyears" ahead of maul,, notable, as Ahsoka was able to contend with vader for a minuite and a half on a dark-side nexus.

Kylo should be much higher. Even as a padawan he was brining down entire temples. Dooku and Kenobi also scale higher.

I think windu/anakin/yoda have a bunch placing the trio on a similar level but i may be off here.