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Latham2000Level Three
Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 20th 2020, 4:50 pm
Anakin in the state of rage when he smashes Dooku in the RotS Novel vs Luke in the state of rage when Vader threatens to turn Leia in RotJ. Which Skywalker wins?
lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 20th 2020, 4:53 pm
zonakin, but idk by how much
Corvinus
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 20th 2020, 4:55 pm
Anakin. He was probably Sidious level at that point.
IGLevel Four
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 20th 2020, 5:02 pm
Zonakin stomped an opponent > the one that rage-amped-Luked stomped.
BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 20th 2020, 5:08 pm
Anakin stomped a more skilled but physically weaker opponent. Luke handily defeated a less skilled but physically stronger opponent.
Zonakin should win, albeit in a good fight.
Zonakin should win, albeit in a good fight.
- lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 20th 2020, 5:10 pm
i think zonakin beat dooku like cuz he was a semi perfect mental state, no? correct me if im wrong, but he would be fighting at his best, while luke is fighting on emotions, which in his case, could hinder him, even if he gets stronger and faster
Underachiever599
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 21st 2020, 4:42 am
Anakin, no question.
The two might be extremely similar in physical ability and raw power during these peak moments, but this fight will be decided by control. Luke loses all control during his fight with Vader. He's growling and swinging wildly with no focus. Meanwhile, Anakin had a near-perfect mental state. He was "in the zone," so to speak. Hence the term "Zonakin" to begin with. If they both have the exact same mental state in this match as they had against Dooku and Vader respectively, Anakin would pick Luke apart with ease due to how sloppy Luke's form became when he was fully enraged.
Now, if they both had the level of power accessed in these moments, but fought with their normal mentality instead of in states of rage, I could see Luke putting up much more of a fight. Anakin is the more experienced combatant, but Luke's raw talent and gift for rapid adaptation and learning would make Anakin hard-pressed to overcome Luke in the long run. I also consider the power the two wielded in these moments to be nearly identical, so Anakin wouldn't be able to blitz Luke on the merit of speed and power alone. This duel comes down to technical skill and strategy. While Anakin is the more skilled of the two, I'd wager Luke is the more strategic, due to how often he's been the underdog in almost every encounter he's come out on top of by this point. At that point, the duel would probably be a coin toss as to whether or not Anakin could outfence Luke before Luke adapted to Anakin's style or exploited a strategic flaw in Anakin's approach the way Obi-Wan did.
The two might be extremely similar in physical ability and raw power during these peak moments, but this fight will be decided by control. Luke loses all control during his fight with Vader. He's growling and swinging wildly with no focus. Meanwhile, Anakin had a near-perfect mental state. He was "in the zone," so to speak. Hence the term "Zonakin" to begin with. If they both have the exact same mental state in this match as they had against Dooku and Vader respectively, Anakin would pick Luke apart with ease due to how sloppy Luke's form became when he was fully enraged.
Now, if they both had the level of power accessed in these moments, but fought with their normal mentality instead of in states of rage, I could see Luke putting up much more of a fight. Anakin is the more experienced combatant, but Luke's raw talent and gift for rapid adaptation and learning would make Anakin hard-pressed to overcome Luke in the long run. I also consider the power the two wielded in these moments to be nearly identical, so Anakin wouldn't be able to blitz Luke on the merit of speed and power alone. This duel comes down to technical skill and strategy. While Anakin is the more skilled of the two, I'd wager Luke is the more strategic, due to how often he's been the underdog in almost every encounter he's come out on top of by this point. At that point, the duel would probably be a coin toss as to whether or not Anakin could outfence Luke before Luke adapted to Anakin's style or exploited a strategic flaw in Anakin's approach the way Obi-Wan did.
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 21st 2020, 7:15 am
Underachiever599 wrote:Anakin, no question.
The two might be extremely similar in physical ability and raw power during these peak moments, but this fight will be decided by control. Luke loses all control during his fight with Vader. He's growling and swinging wildly with no focus. Meanwhile, Anakin had a near-perfect mental state. He was "in the zone," so to speak. Hence the term "Zonakin" to begin with. If they both have the exact same mental state in this match as they had against Dooku and Vader respectively, Anakin would pick Luke apart with ease due to how sloppy Luke's form became when he was fully enraged.
Now, if they both had the level of power accessed in these moments, but fought with their normal mentality instead of in states of rage, I could see Luke putting up much more of a fight. Anakin is the more experienced combatant, but Luke's raw talent and gift for rapid adaptation and learning would make Anakin hard-pressed to overcome Luke in the long run. I also consider the power the two wielded in these moments to be nearly identical, so Anakin wouldn't be able to blitz Luke on the merit of speed and power alone. This duel comes down to technical skill and strategy. While Anakin is the more skilled of the two, I'd wager Luke is the more strategic, due to how often he's been the underdog in almost every encounter he's come out on top of by this point. At that point, the duel would probably be a coin toss as to whether or not Anakin could outfence Luke before Luke adapted to Anakin's style or exploited a strategic flaw in Anakin's approach the way Obi-Wan did.
That wouldn't happen because Luke doesn't have the privilege of a pre-existing 13 year old intimate master and apprentice relationship with Anakin.
NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 21st 2020, 1:59 pm
Zonakin, easily.
Blade_of_DorinLevel One
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 22nd 2020, 10:21 am
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Zonakin, easily.
AlakanSpacewalker
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 23rd 2020, 2:40 pm
If Vader wasn’t suppressed and hindered and Luke wasn’t aided by the Force literally willing him to win, then rage amped Luke wouldn’t have beaten Vader. Oh, and rage amped Luke caught Vader off guard. Base Anakin would beat him being superior to his crippled nerfed self.
- AlakanSpacewalker
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 23rd 2020, 2:49 pm
IG (Exists) wrote:Zonakin stomped an opponent > the one that rage-amped-Luked stomped.
When did rage amped Luke get stomped?
- AlakanSpacewalker
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 23rd 2020, 3:43 pm
oh, are you trying to say Dooku is above Vader? I do agree he’s above the hindered and suppressed Vader but not prime Vader.
- IGLevel Four
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 23rd 2020, 3:44 pm
Prime Vader (in suit) is ROTJ, and Dooku annihilates any suit Vader iteration.
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 23rd 2020, 3:53 pm
Vader wasn't hindered but it doesn't matter regardless, Dooku shreds him, and Zonakin demolished Dooku in 12 seconds flat. Luke being better than Vader in this state doesn't get him far.
- AlakanSpacewalker
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 23rd 2020, 3:57 pm
I thought it was stated he was? If he wasn’t hindered then how did Luke beat him so easily? And how dose Dooku shred someone who is merely 20 percent less than the Emperor?DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Vader wasn't hindered but it doesn't matter regardless, Dooku shreds him, and Zonakin demolished Dooku in 12 seconds flat. Luke being better than Vader in this state doesn't get him far.
- IGLevel Four
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 23rd 2020, 4:00 pm
The 80% quote is unquantifiable nonsense. And Luke is just that good (or perhaps, Vader is that bad). It's stated nowhere that Vader is hindered.AlakanSpacewalker wrote:I thought it was stated he was? If he wasn’t hindered then how did Luke beat him so easily? And how dose Dooku shred someone who is merely 20 percent less than the Emperor?DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Vader wasn't hindered but it doesn't matter regardless, Dooku shreds him, and Zonakin demolished Dooku in 12 seconds flat. Luke being better than Vader in this state doesn't get him far.
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Zonakin vs rage amped Luke
January 23rd 2020, 4:03 pm
@AlakanSpacewalker:
Sources state the opposite actually, that Vader "brought his full strength and power against the younger man". So no, he wasn't hindered, but fighting at the peak of his abilities.
Learning curve and mega growth made him equal at base, a rage amp turned the tide in his favour.
Because that's a useless statistic that's unquantifiable and non definitive. Vader lacks the technique of lifelong masters (Which includes Dooku), has speed inferior to TPM Kenobi and is a match for Ben, somebody massively below ROTS Kenobi, who in turn is fodder to Dooku. Vader's good and can probably hang with TPM Maul, but that's where he caps out.
I thought it was stated he was?
Sources state the opposite actually, that Vader "brought his full strength and power against the younger man". So no, he wasn't hindered, but fighting at the peak of his abilities.
If he wasn’t hindered then how did Luke beat him so easily?
Learning curve and mega growth made him equal at base, a rage amp turned the tide in his favour.
And how dose Dooku shred someone who is merely 20 percent less than the Emperor?
Because that's a useless statistic that's unquantifiable and non definitive. Vader lacks the technique of lifelong masters (Which includes Dooku), has speed inferior to TPM Kenobi and is a match for Ben, somebody massively below ROTS Kenobi, who in turn is fodder to Dooku. Vader's good and can probably hang with TPM Maul, but that's where he caps out.
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