SS - Darth Tyranus (ArkhamAsylum3) vs Darth Vader (DC77)

-Darth Vader as of Star Wars: Episode 6: Return of the Jedi.
-Darth Tyranus as of Star Wars: Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith.

There will be 3 posts per side, and no time limit.

This thread follows all default stipulations listed in the "Guidelines" thread. Additional rules are as follows:

-Feats take precedent over directly and indisputably contradicted statements.
-Quotes are binding and have no expiration date unless directly or subtextually contradicted. For the latter, such a case must be made within the debate itself.
-All letter or number statistics ascribed to characters from C-Canon sources, including role-playing games and trading cards, are banned.

Interesting fight. I’m looking forward to see how it goes.

T4V and TAEP. This promise to be a great fight.

@Arkhamasylum3 I thought DC was always of the opinion that Dooku>Vader, has he changed his mind?

@SithSauce Nah, only doing this because of 2 reasons:

1.I like Vader and wanted to rep him.

2.I like playing Devil's Advocate.

Oh. The brothers don't actually disagree. There's still a first time for everything, but this isn't the time, it would seem.
Somewhat interested to see how this unfolds, even if the victor is a foregone conclusion (we've got someone who clearly likes their champion up against someone who allegedly likes their champion but for some inexplicable reason spends a sizable portion of their time on the forums furiously lowballing them to ridiculous extents).

^^^

Ladies and gentlemen, the guy who is always throwing shade about preliminary opinions on how the debate will go doing exactly what he allegedly doesn't like.

@ArkhamAsylum3 I'm determined that this CAV, unlike our last 2 will get off the ground, you can open.

A "debate" in which one of the parties involved frequently undersells their champion and openly admits that they believe said champion is at a disadvantage against the opposition will always be an exception to the rule.
Not that I'm going to waste much time on this. Let's just hope that this debate, unlike its predecessors, doesn't fall apart before it has even commmeced, or that one of the parties doesn't abruptly change their view in drastic fashion mid-disucssion. Good luck and have fun!

Lmao.

I'll get to work soon...

DC77 wrote:@SithSauce Nah, only doing this because of 2 reasons:

1.I like Vader and wanted to rep him.

2.I like playing Devil's Advocate.

So if you are debating for a character who you think is inferior to his competition anyway, wouldn't it be more likely for you to lose the debate?

SithSauce wrote:

DC77 wrote:@SithSauce Nah, only doing this because of 2 reasons:

1.I like Vader and wanted to rep him.

2.I like playing Devil's Advocate.

So if you are debating for a character who you think is inferior to his competition anyway, wouldn't it be more likely for you to lose the debate?

Looks like someone gets me...

SithSauce wrote:

DC77 wrote:@SithSauce Nah, only doing this because of 2 reasons:

1.I like Vader and wanted to rep him.

2.I like playing Devil's Advocate.

So if you are debating for a character who you think is inferior to his competition anyway, wouldn't it be more likely for you to lose the debate?

Some people like to play devil's advocate.

Still waiting on that opener you owe me @ArkhamAsylum3.

Once the tourney is over which most likely will be soon for me given I'm certain I'll lose to Az (my performance in that CaV hasn't been the greatest).

Wasn't bad. Though it had some things one can easily counter, a lot of it was quite impressive.

First Post

1) Introduction

I’m lazy and don’t really like writing out long posts so I’ll try to keep this short. We have a very simple method of comparison between Vader and Dooku which clearly portrays Dooku as superior so I don’t really feel the need to even dive into Dooku’s best feats (his fights with Yoda for example) though I will do so in future posts if I deem it necessary.

2) Comparison

A) Vader vs Luke: The Empire Strikes Back

During ESB in what is a criminally underrated showing for Luke, he takes on Vader and performs rather well. In the opening exchanges of the duel while Vader does block Luke’s initial blow with “ease” (JN) and pushes Luke back with “considerable strength, knocking Luke to the floor” (JN) he does not do so well when Luke attacks again. When Luke attacks again with a new ferocity after having learned from the initial exchange he “drives Vader back” (Novel, Script), “forcing Vader to use defensive tactics” (Script) and is also noted to be “matching Darth Vader’s fighting prowess blow for blow” (JN), “holding up” (JN) against him etc. Note that this exchange goes on for “several minutes” (JN) so as per several primary sources Luke drove Vader back and held up against him for a significant period of time.

The next lightsaber exchange (after Luke evades Vader and regains his lightsaber) sees Luke initially taking a defensive posture against Vader to control his anger though once he gets his emotions in check he “forces him back” (Novel, Script) and causes Vader to lose his balance and fall into the outer rim of steaming pipes.

Then we have the final engagement where Vader drives Luke back and disarms him. However he is only noted to drive Luke back “gradually” (Script) and Luke “nicks Vader on the shoulder” (Script) during the engagement indicating it was the furthest thing from a stomp on Vader’s part and keep in mind Luke was near exhausted by this point in the duel so he performed remarkably well all things considered.

B) Dooku vs Anakin: Attack of the Clones

This fight is in total contrast to the Luke vs Vader engagement. In this fight Anakin only manages to drive Dooku back through spending “many times the energy” (Novel) the latter was using and by catching Dooku “off balance” (Script, JN) yet he still failed to achieve anything of note with him driving Dooku back for around 4 seconds (Movie). Dooku then begins to drive Anakin back while beginning to “toy” (JN) with him and the fight is described as “no contest” (Script). Anakin is then disarmed of one of his lightsabers and then after about 20 more seconds of duelling his arm is chopped off.

C) Final thoughts on both duels

I don’t think I need to explain which one is better. In Luke’s duel, he drives Vader back twice (both were for a decent period of time) and only is only pushed back towards the end yet still holds up and even hits Vader on the shoulder. In total contrast, Dooku is only briefly pushed back by Anakin and almost instantly recovers driving the latter back easily while toying before disarming him and then chopping off his arm. Their entire duel lasts around 40 seconds compared to Vader’s duel which took several minutes. So yeah Dooku definitely comes off looking better.

D) Luke vs Anakin

This segment can be essentially summarised with a single question: Who would you place your money on in a fight: A lesser prodigy with 3 years of training (who didn't have a teacher for most of it) or a greater prodigy with 10 years of training (who had a teacher for all of it)? I know who I think is better.

Spoiler:

3) Recap

So just a general summary of the comparison between the two: Anakin following all logic should be a more powerful Force Wielder than Luke and Dooku had a much easier time with him than Vader did with Luke meaning Dooku is > Vader.

That’s all.

I can't comment on the quality of the post, it would be too rude, all I can say is aotc Anakin vs ESB Luke is Lukes game.

I am legitimately willing to CaV it 

Good post HP.

I'll respond soon.

@Xolthol You asked for a tag.

Krayt Dies wrote:@Xolthol You asked for a tag.

Thanks for the tag. I will read it when I will have some time.

@Krayt dies 
https://youtu.be/rgyitSlMtMY?t=55s Vader clowned Luke in the first few seconds into their fight. Luke only put up some of what of a fight a bit later on, but he was still obviously losing.

@SithSauce

You are aware the debate is between DC77 and I right?

Vader clowned Luke in the first few seconds into their fight. Luke only put up some of what of a fight a bit later on, but he was still obviously losing.

This was already addressed in my post. While Vader does block Luke's initial blow with ease and then push him to the floor immediately afterwards Luke pushes him back and is noted to be matching him blow for blow in the JN.