Re: Savage Opress vs ANH Darth Vader

December 29th 2019, 9:56 pm

Read Super Fight #2 on KMC and Super Fight #3 on SI and honestly tell me it's not damaging for Vader...

December 29th 2019, 10:10 pm

Just skimmed. Interesting points. However, this

There is a generally acknowledged inconsistency in Darth Vader’s power around 0 BBY. The Force Unleashed paints him as quite impressive, but all other the sources have him struggling against the Dark Woman, losing to Darth Maul, quasi-stalemating old Ben Kenobi, and struggling against Luke Skywalker circa The Empire Strikes Back.

is incorrect. He didn't struggle with the Dark Woman. The only times she actually challenges him in the fight are when she uses environmental manipulation to momentarily restrain him with vines and when she ambushes him from a waterfall. In both these situations, he quickly recovered and stomped her.

Last I checked, Star Wars Tales is non-canon unless explicitly specified.

As for Ben, Vader was mentally hindered and was still winning.

ESB Luke I'm saving for my blog.

Most of these "debunks" are centred around Galen and SK, all of which have about just as much counter evidence as they do evidence.

December 29th 2019, 10:12 pm

I have to say: only on SI can Vader be lowballed for circumstantially losing to Force users like Galen whereas Revan is praised for being one-shot by novel Vitiate's full power.

December 29th 2019, 10:14 pm

BreakofDawn wrote:I have to say: only on SI can Vader be lowballed for circumstantially losing to Force users like Galen whereas Revan is praised for being one-shot by novel Vitiate's full power.

ahh i remember the glorious super fight vader vs revan azronger and ant made in comic vine sadly its not completed yet ): dunno why they stop posting in there

pd: az held the advantage in that cav

December 29th 2019, 10:36 pm

@BOD @DC77 what debunk about what?

December 29th 2019, 11:09 pm

The Az V Ant debate was moved to SI.

December 29th 2019, 11:19 pm

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:The Az V Ant debate was moved to SI.

link? cuz i wanna see how it ended

December 29th 2019, 11:26 pm

Here it is.

December 29th 2019, 11:32 pm

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Here it is.

yare yare azronger destroyed tbh

December 29th 2019, 11:35 pm

The lord of hunger wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Here it is.

yare yare azronger destroyed tbh

I have to ask: have you... read the full debate?

December 29th 2019, 11:41 pm

DarthAnt66 wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Here it is.

yare yare azronger destroyed tbh

I have to ask: have you... read the full debate?

i read it on comic vine the first 8 posts so only need the final part nevertheless good job to both of you

December 29th 2019, 11:59 pm

@azronger

@darthant66

why did the thing never get finished? dont yall have some sort of unspoken responsibility to finish it or something?

December 30th 2019, 1:25 am

The lord of hunger wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Here it is.

yare yare azronger destroyed tbh

I have to ask: have you... read the full debate?

i read it on comic vine the first 8 posts so only need the final part nevertheless good job to both of you

@the lord of hunger: Ah, you didn't read my final response then:

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t49-ss-super-fight-iii-darth-vader-azronger-vs-revan-darthant66#9082

Many users got banned from ComicVine so I couldn't post it there.

December 30th 2019, 2:06 am

Vader, every single time.

December 30th 2019, 1:02 pm

Vader annihilates

December 31st 2019, 7:31 pm

Breakofdawn wrote:I doubt it was just normal dark side anger. Besides being right after he snapped, his body language and actions scream rage amp.

...
Anakin and Obi-Wan were fighting defensive against a rage amped opponent in an enclosed hallway which favoured Savage's longer reach and more effective weapon.

I'm referring to the first confrontation when Savage is kidnapping the toydarion ruler when he threw them both off his back like ragdolls despite being in a bad position to get the leverage. Savage obviously at that point wasn't any more enraged than he already is conditioned to be, such as if he fought Vader in a random encounter.

He also snapped through energy restraints and shattered a pillar in the process after having just willed himself back from the brink of death.

I don't see how that's superior to Savage's ragdolling feat. My example is at least combatively quantifiable. Yours is vague in relation to other characters.

That's true, but Savage's height and reach advantage is fairly negligible since he's really not that much bigger.

It really isn't as negligible as you are trying to make out. Savage is head and shoulders(literally) above Vader and the broader and the solider of the two. I'm 6'2 and look noticeably shorter when I meet someone 6'4, just a two-inch difference. Savage has a 6-inch difference in height. It's a big advantage in the zabracks favor.

Not necessarily. Obi-Wan repeatedly matched Maul head-on for example despite Maul having better strength feats.

Kenobi fights on the back foot. His specialty is in weathering the storm, that's how he was able to compete with Anakin and Grievous. Defending is much easier than attacking.

Dooku matched Anakin repeatedly due to his skill advantage despite Anakin being far stronger.

Dooku fights by outmaneuvering and out positioning his opponents. His style is horrible for toe-to-toe combat. In all the times he's been forced to fight at close-quarters fight it's Anakin who held the advantage.

Talzin held her own for a time against Mace Windu despite Windu's strength and skill advantage.

The duel was brief and barely two exchanges. Not data to work with.

Can't really comment on TOR as I haven't seen most of it.

Their duel had very little to do with height and leverage. Maul casually parries each of Savage's strikes as he steps back, then seizes him by the forearm when Savage over-reaches, before slamming him. There's honestly nothing about that that Vader couldn't replicate, except unlike Maul he wouldn't be holding back and would use that kind of opportunity to kill Savage.

Yes that's because he had a considerable height advantage. Maul is literally a full head taller than Savage. Tall guys use their superior height to generate more momentum, it's how Bane staggered the much shorter Zannah in the opening exchange:

"He opened with a series of two-handed overhead chops, using his great height to bring his blade hacking down at her from above. She easily blocked each blow, but the momentum of the crushing impact caused her to stagger back, throwing her off balance."

That's how Savage was able to stagger Kenobi in their fight on Raydonia, because Savage is the much larger and taller. He imposes his superior strengh in conjuction with his size, similar to Bane:

"Fohargh, despite his terrifying appearance, was smaller and lighter than his human opponent. Physically outmatched by the brute force of Bane's Form V, he was forced to rely on the defensive style of Form III to keep his larger opponent's overpowering attacks at bay."

But Maul, unlike Kenobi, is actually taller than Savage so he can't hit him with as much kinetic energy when he's fighting against Maul's height which is new territory for him.

Vader wouldn't be able to wrist lock Savage because he can't get him into that position with his much shorter height. Just like Kenobi and Anakin weren't despite being relative to Maul. Styles and physicals make fights, not just skill and scaling.

I doubt TPM Maul or even SoD Maul could pull Savage's arm in a wrist lock at a much shorter height.
Why not?

Isn't it obvious he's much shorter than Savage. He's less than 5'9 inches as of TPM and SoD, whereas with the raptor legs he was a 7+ footer and noticeably taller than even Savage. Kind of big disparity.

It also helps that he has the mental edge.
What do you mean?

He's the leader and the man Savage looks up to as a hero and the one who makes him feel small. It's obviously a mental advantage.

Plus Vader isn't as martially able as Maul, which is part of the reason Maul subdued him; with martial technique, at least not in terms of feats.
I 100% disagree with this after looking back at Vader's feats. Barely a month into his suit, he outfought and killed 3 Jedi masters close quarters combat while mentally hindered by his rage. Within a year, he could toy with an assassin who could blitz and wipe out about 20 highly trained soldiers without making a sound. By 17 BBY, he could hold his own against four Jedi attacking him from all sides, kill one and ragdoll the other three with the Force. He's also outmatched Ben Kenobi in both skill and power while mentally hindered, stomped entire militia groups, stomped a dark Jedi, stomped a group of special ops stormtroopers in a cramped area favouring them in fifteen seconds flat, and easily dispatched 2 Tu'kata Nobilis (whose dark side brethren have challenged the likes of Revan and Exar Kun).

Those are saber feats, I'm talking about martial art skill, which is part of how Maul subdued Savage.

December 31st 2019, 7:45 pm

@O-Siri:

I'm 6'2 and look noticeably shorter when I meet someone 6'4

This along with your comments on CV about embodying the "feminine charms" of your avi have now debunked the possibility you could be female and confirmed your gender, in spite of your ambiguity.

Savage Opress vs ANH Darth Vader - Page 3 228124001

Savage Opress vs ANH Darth Vader - Page 3 228124001

December 31st 2019, 7:48 pm

wtf is this

December 31st 2019, 7:52 pm

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:wtf is this

i know huge mismatch vader yawnrapes

December 31st 2019, 7:58 pm

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@O-Siri:

I'm 6'2 and look noticeably shorter when I meet someone 6'4

This along with your comments on CV about embodying the "feminine charms" of your avi have now debunked the possibility you could be female and confirmed your gender, in spite of your ambiguity.

I’m not necessarily sure if that’s a good criteria for that kind of stuff...

December 31st 2019, 8:00 pm

Defo is tbh. Savage Opress vs ANH Darth Vader - Page 3 3037424776

December 31st 2019, 8:26 pm

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@O-Siri:

I'm 6'2 and look noticeably shorter when I meet someone 6'4

This along with your comments on CV about embodying the "feminine charms" of your avi have now debunked the possibility you could be female and confirmed your gender, in spite of your ambiguity.

It was "play up the feminine characteristics of my avi" or some sh*t. And I'm not convinced any of this sh*t definitively proves Kilius is male.

December 31st 2019, 8:58 pm

Savage stomps

December 31st 2019, 8:59 pm

IG (Exists) wrote:Savage stomps

December 31st 2019, 9:00 pm

TPM maul was holistically portrayed as >= ANH Vader in resurrection (which was made to settle the Maul vs. Vader debate) and Savage >>> TPM maul