The Final Order (RoS) vs. The Dark Empire

Final Order when it would have mobilized in 16 hours

vs.

The Dark Empire 

Both Palpatine's are active. Full knowledge and hyperspace lanes. No outside interference. Who wins?

The Final Order has way, way more firepower. The Dark Empire has the better Sheev. Honestly, I'd maybe give a slight edge to Dark Empire, just because of Palpatine's Force Storms

This is a tough one the final order may have a major advantage considering they got literally xsyton-class Star destroyers Aka mini eclipses however  the dark empire fleet have the Chad palpy so the forcé storm ability can give them the edge

The Final Order should have greater numbers than the Dark Empire. It also has similar capabilities and technology, meaning it can hold its own. However, every single one of the destroyers in the Final Order fleet has a planet destroying weapon, which should be enough to one-shot any of the Dark Empire ships. They also have more tried and tested admirals and commanders, many of whom were part of the First Order and who have ascended to be in charge of the RoS fleet.

That said, this all comes to naught when you have DE Sidious, who walks over his RoS iteration. The Final Order has no counter for his Force storms, nor his more esoteric abilities such as battle meditation. 

Ship to ship, the Final Order have it. With DE Sidious, the Dark Empire can exploit Sheevie's storms and their throwing the Final Order into disarray to take down many of their ships, or even just deploying starfighters to take out their hugely vulnerable cannons.

The Dark Empire has this, but only because of Sidious.

The Final Order.

Without God - Final Order
With God - Dark Empire

For the love of Jesus remove this censoring

HellfireUnit wrote:For the love of Jesus remove this censoring

For the love of Wankatine remove this censoring*

BreakofDawn wrote:The Final Order should have greater numbers than the Dark Empire. It also has similar capabilities and technology, meaning it can hold its own. However, every single one of the destroyers in the Final Order fleet has a planet destroying weapon, which should be enough to one-shot any of the Dark Empire ships. They also have more tried and tested admirals and commanders, many of whom were part of the First Order and who have ascended to be in charge of the RoS fleet.

That said, this all comes to naught when you have DE Sidious, who walks over his RoS iteration. The Final Order has no counter for his Force storms, nor his more esoteric abilities such as battle meditation. 

Ship to ship, the Final Order have it. With DE Sidious, the Dark Empire can exploit Sheevie's storms and their throwing the Final Order into disarray to take down many of their ships, or even just deploying starfighters to take out their hugely vulnerable cannons.

The Dark Empire has this, but only because of Sidious.

1. Doubtful the FO has better Officers.

2. Doubtful.

Those Destroyers with the superlasers are all well and good, but they are limited in the fact that said lasers sit underneath the Destroyers themselves.

They can't maneuver the superlasers to target ships, certainly if the enemy gets right ontop of them. More to that, are we even sure they can even target much smaller targets with the superlasers?

It also seems to me that on the demonstration, it took time for them to blow up a planet, so it seems its not immediate. This isn't to say that they can't destroyer smaller targets, if they get into the right position, but there's a number of factors here rather than just a stationary unshielded unmoving unarmed planet.

That's if they can even target a ship while they are trying to defend themselves from getting destroyed. Exposing your big weapon like that in a rather undefended position is utterly stoopa, full knowledge means the DE knows exactly what to target and when they can take out those superlasers, it's done.

Those Destroyers also had their main hanger bays removed, now obviously they have hanger bays, but I'm curious as to how many fighters they hold and what kind. If they are just carrying the  TIE/dg starfighter, then they are royally screwed in space combat, as they won't have an answer for the Shadow Droids and other various TIE models that the DE would have access to, this isn't counting gunboats either. This further question as to how many fighters each of them have.

There's a complete lack of ground forces compared to the DE, so on the ground flooring, they should sweep that.

Apparently the entire Final Order fleet can be disabled by taking out just one ship (or something, idk what happened in the movie), so the Galaxy Gun or a Force storm should do the trick.

Apparently the entire Final Order fleet can be disabled by taking out just one ship (or something, idk what happened in the movie), so the Galaxy Gun or a Force storm should do the trick.

IIRC, that ship just allowed them to communicate more closely in order to navigate their way out of the Unknown Regions by giving them all a trajectory. Without it, they couldn't leave.

How did they lose then lol. They logically should have obliterated the Resistance. The movie made no sense.

Well what did you expect? Even within the realm of SW, there was just stoopa vehicle designs...moreso than ever before.

Exposed fuel tanks on a back of a walker by the First Order

Exposed superlasers on the underside of a Destroyer.

That slow moving superlaser cannon thing on Crait that had to be dragged like it was some giant medieval weapon.

Azronger wrote:How did they lose then lol. They logically should have obliterated the Resistance. The movie made no sense.

Ship got destroyed so they couldn't leave. Their ships were unprepared for a massive wave of fighters, which destroyed most of the cannons. The ships couldn't move, making them sitting ducks. 

It's about as logical as the end of ROTJ, when the Empire's entire fleet suddenly vanishes after the Death Star is blown up.

The end of RotJ is explained by disappearance of the Emperor's battle meditation making everyone incompetent and hysterical. This movie made no sense, period.

BreakofDawn wrote:

Azronger wrote:How did they lose then lol. They logically should have obliterated the Resistance. The movie made no sense.

Ship got destroyed so they couldn't leave. Their ships were unprepared for a massive wave of fighters, which destroyed most of the cannons. The ships couldn't move, making them sitting ducks. 

It's about as logical as the end of ROTJ, when the Empire's entire fleet suddenly vanishes after the Death Star is blown up.

I think it's easier to swallow a basic conclusion that the fleet at Endor went for a retreat.

Zenwolf wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

Azronger wrote:How did they lose then lol. They logically should have obliterated the Resistance. The movie made no sense.

Ship got destroyed so they couldn't leave. Their ships were unprepared for a massive wave of fighters, which destroyed most of the cannons. The ships couldn't move, making them sitting ducks. 

It's about as logical as the end of ROTJ, when the Empire's entire fleet suddenly vanishes after the Death Star is blown up.

I think it's easier to swallow a basic conclusion that the fleet at Endor went for a retreat.

Which wouldn't make sense. They massively outnumbered the Rebel fleet and the Rebels were out of formation and had sent all of their starships into the Death Star. Picking them off should have been fairly easy after that. The DS had already annihilated a good portion of their fleet.

@Azronger You got that from watching the film?

BreakofDawn wrote:

Zenwolf wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

Azronger wrote:How did they lose then lol. They logically should have obliterated the Resistance. The movie made no sense.

Ship got destroyed so they couldn't leave. Their ships were unprepared for a massive wave of fighters, which destroyed most of the cannons. The ships couldn't move, making them sitting ducks. 

It's about as logical as the end of ROTJ, when the Empire's entire fleet suddenly vanishes after the Death Star is blown up.

I think it's easier to swallow a basic conclusion that the fleet at Endor went for a retreat.

Which wouldn't make sense. They massively outnumbered the Rebel fleet and the Rebels were out of formation and had sent all of their starships into the Death Star. Picking them off should have been fairly easy after that. The DS had already annihilated a good portion of their fleet.

@Azronger You got that from watching the film?

Morale can be a powerful thing, they just witnessed the Executor get destroyed and then the DS 2 get destroyed. Pretty sure the Imperial fleet's morale would utterly have dropped like a stone in deep water to the point where they didn't think they could win.

Or they'd have been utterly enraged and sought vengeance against the people right in front of them who killed their Emperor and blew up their DS.

BreakofDawn wrote:Or they'd have been utterly enraged and sought vengeance against the people right in front of them who killed their Emperor and blew up their DS.

Right that could have happened to, it can go either way.

Same can be said for the FO, then. Simultaneously having their communications cut and losing their command ship would have thrown the entire fleet into disarray and caused them to panic or lose morale, making them easy targets for a coordinated counter-offensive by the Resistance.

The one that wasn’t defeated by Daisy Riddly’s Mary Sue Jedi OC wins

Azronger wrote:How did they lose then lol. They logically should have obliterated the Resistance. The movie made no sense.

It’s Disney Star Wars, it never makes since.