Rank the Saga Duels

Make a list of your favorite to least favorite duels in the I—IX Skywalker saga.

1). Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker (TESB)
2). Kylo Ren vs. Rey (TRoS)
3). Kylo Ren & Rey vs. Praetorian Guards
4). Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon Jinn & Obi-Wan Kenobi
5). Darth Sidious vs. Yoda
6). Darth Vader vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi (RotS)
7). Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker (RotJ)
8). Kylo Ren vs. the Knights of Ren
9). Count Dooku vs. Yoda
10). Kylo Ren vs. Rey & Finn (TFA)
11). Count Dooku vs. Anakin Skywalker & Obi-Wan Kenobi (RotS)
12). Darth Vader vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi (ANH)
13). General Grievous vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi
14). Darth Sidious vs. Mace Windu & B-Team
15). Count Dooku vs. Anakin Skywalker & Obi-Wan Kenobi (AotC)

1. Qui-Gon Jinn & Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Darth Maul (I).
2. Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader (V).
3. Rey & Kylo Ren vs Praetorian Guards (VIII)
4. Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader (VI).
5. Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Anakin Skywalker (III).
6. Rey vs Kylo Ren (IX).
7. Obi-Wan Kenobi & Anakin Skywalker vs Count Dooku (III).
8. Yoda vs Darth Sidious (III).
9. Ben Solo vs Knights of Ren (IX)
10. Rey & Finn vs Kylo Ren (VII).
11. Qui-Gon Jinn vs Darth Maul (I).
12. Obi-Wan Kenobi vs General Grievous (III).
13. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker & Yoda vs Count Dooku (II).
14. Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Darth Vader (IV).
15. Mace Windu & Jedi Masters vs Darth Sidious (III).

Luke vs Vader (ROTJ).
Anakin vs Obi-Wan.
Maul vs Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon.
Kylo Ren vs Rey (TROS).
Anakin and Obi-Wan vs Dooku.
Luke vs Vader (ESB).
Yoda vs Dooku.
Anakin and Obi-Wan vs Dooku (AOTC).
Mace Windu vs Sidious.
Ben Kenobi vs Darth Vader.

1. Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker (TESB)
2. Darth Vader vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi (RotS)
3. Count Dooku vs. Yoda
4. Count Dooku vs. Anakin Skywalker & Obi-Wan Kenobi (RotS)
5. Count Dooku vs. Anakin Skywalker & Obi-Wan Kenobi (AotC)
6. Darth Vader vs. Luke Skywalker (RotJ)
7. Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon Jinn & Obi-Wan Kenobi
8. Darth Vader vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi (ANH)
9. Darth Sidious vs. Yoda
10. Darth Sidious vs. Mace Windu & B-Team
11. General Grievous vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi

Why are so many people ranking the Praetorian fight highly? Visually it's nice - the setting and effects are great - but in terms of choreography it's f*cking awful, and there's no emotion in it - unlike Vader vs Luke in ESB for example.

The Apprentice wrote:Why are so many people ranking the Praetorian fight highly? Visually it's nice - the setting and effects are great - but in terms of choreography it's f*cking awful, and there's no emotion in it - unlike Vader vs Luke in ESB for example.

"Visually it's nice" "but in terms of choreography it's f*cking awful"

Those are two rather contradictory statements.

Personally, I don't find the choreography to be bad at all, especially compares to the goofy choreography of the rest of the Star Wars franchise. Sure, a weapon disappears between cuts. Big deal. Not as bad as the pointless twirling in Kenobi and Anakin's duel, Anakin throwing his arm out to his side and patiently waiting for Dooku to cut it off, Dooku attacking a spot on the ground when Yoda is jumping around over his head, or any number of other glaring choreography flaws in the Star Wars movies.

As for my ranking:
Luke vs Vader (ESB)
Rey vs Kylo (TRoS)
Obi-Wan vs Anakin (RotS)
Luke vs Vader (RotJ)
Rey & Kylo vs Guards (TLJ)
Kenobi & Jinn vs Maul (TPM)
Rey & Finn vs Kylo (TFA)
Kenobi & Anakin vs Dooku (RotS)
Yoda vs Sidious (RotS)
Ben vs Vader (ANH)
Kenobi vs Grievous (RotS)
Kenobi & Anakin vs Dooku (AotC)
Yoda vs Dooku (AotC)

Underachiever599 wrote:Personally, I don't find the choreography to be bad at all, especially compares to the goofy choreography of the rest of the Star Wars franchise. Sure, a weapon disappears between cuts. Big deal. Not as bad as the pointless twirling in Kenobi and Anakin's duel, Anakin throwing his arm out to his side and patiently waiting for Dooku to cut it off, Dooku attacking a spot on the ground when Yoda is jumping around over his head, or any number of other glaring choreography flaws in the Star Wars movies.

^
Plus, the guards score some hits on the main characters, there's good grappling, a variety of weapons... The whole fight feels intense, imaginative, physical and dangerous.

@Underachiever599

"Visually it's nice" "but in terms of choreography it's f*cking awful"

Those are two rather contradictory statements.

How are they contradictory??? I literally clarified what I was referring to in the very portion of my sentence which you conveniently omitted: "The setting and effects are great." By visually I mean the spectacle of it all is great, so you don't notice the terrible choreography or at least not at first. When I initially watched the duel I was blown away by it, but upon my third or fourth viewing I noticed the mistakes and once I'd seen them, I couldn't unsee them.

Personally, I don't find the choreography to be bad at all, especially compares to the goofy choreography of the rest of the Star Wars franchise. Sure, a weapon disappears between cuts. Big deal. Not as bad as the pointless twirling in Kenobi and Anakin's duel, Anakin throwing his arm out to his side and patiently waiting for Dooku to cut it off, Dooku attacking a spot on the ground when Yoda is jumping around over his head, or any number of other glaring choreography flaws in the Star Wars movies.

So, your argument is essentially the choreography errors in this fight don't matter, because other fights also have errors??? What kind of logic is that? I can use that to justify the sh*t choreography in almost any duel. Should I start arguing that Bane's mercs falling over in The Dark Knight Rises is excusable, because Oliver Queen's fight with Damien Darhk at the end of Arrow S4 is filled with glaring errors? I'm aware you probably don't have a clue what I'm referring to with that second example, so seriously, look it up, it's hilarious.

[list=ol1]
[*][size=33]Darth Vader vs Obi Wan (RotS)[/size]
[*][size=33]Darth Vader vs Luke Skywalker (RotJ)[/size]
[*][size=33]Darth Vader vs Luke Skywalker (ESB)[/size]
[*][size=33]Kylo Ren vs Rey Palpatine (RoS)[/size]
[*][size=33]Darth Sidious vs Yoda (RotS)[/size]
[*][size=33]Darth Vader vs Obi Wan (ANH)[/size]
[*][size=33]Darth Sidious vs Mace Windu (RotS)[/size]
[*][size=33]Kylo Ren vs The Knights of Ren (RoS)[/size]
[*][size=33]Count Dooku vs Yoda (AoTC)[/size]
[*][size=33]Darth Maul vs Qui Gon and Obi Wan (TPM)[/size]
[/list]

The Apprentice wrote:@Underachiever599

"Visually it's nice" "but in terms of choreography it's f*cking awful"

Those are two rather contradictory statements.

How are they contradictory??? I literally clarified what I was referring to in the very portion of my sentence which you conveniently omitted: "The setting and effects are great." By visually I mean the spectacle of it all is great, so you don't notice the terrible choreography or at least not at first. When I initially watched the duel I was blown away by it, but upon my third or fourth viewing I noticed the mistakes and once I'd seen them, I couldn't unsee them.

Personally, I don't find the choreography to be bad at all, especially compares to the goofy choreography of the rest of the Star Wars franchise. Sure, a weapon disappears between cuts. Big deal. Not as bad as the pointless twirling in Kenobi and Anakin's duel, Anakin throwing his arm out to his side and patiently waiting for Dooku to cut it off, Dooku attacking a spot on the ground when Yoda is jumping around over his head, or any number of other glaring choreography flaws in the Star Wars movies.

So, your argument is essentially the choreography errors in this fight don't matter, because other fights also have errors??? What kind of logic is that? I can use that to justify the sh*t choreography in almost any duel. Should I start arguing that Bane's mercs falling over in The Dark Knight Rises is excusable, because Oliver Queen's fight with Damien Darhk at the end of Arrow S4 is filled with glaring errors? I'm aware you probably don't have a clue what I'm referring to with that second example, so seriously, look it up, it's hilarious.

If it took you three or four viewings to notice issues in the choreography, the choreography isn't kriff. It did its job, it looked like a flashy, entertaining spectacle, and only breaks down under careful observation (much like pretty much all movie choreography). 

And no, my argument isn't that the choreography errors don't matter. My argument is that we're being specifically asked in this thread to compare the fights in the Star Wars movies. The other fights in the Star Wars movies tend to have worse choreography errors than the fight against the guards in TLJ. Therefore, the fight in TLJ is consistently ranked above the other poorly choreographed fights. 

Also, I'm fully aware of the reference to both The Dark Knight Rises and Arrow. The Dark Knight Rises is pretty inexcusable, considering how massive the budget for that movie was, but I can give Arrow a small bit of a pass, considering it's made for television, and probably doesn't have a gigantic budget. It also probably doesn't have the time necessary for all the actors to rehearse a more impressive choreographed fight for a single episode. I've found this to be an issue with most of CW's hero-based shows. That said, I do agree, it's hilarious. It's basically just stage fighting at its goofiest.

I'll be ranking on a mixture of visual spectacle and emotional payoff.

1) Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader (ROTJ)
2) Kylo Ren vs Rey (TROS)
3) Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Anakin Skywalker (ROTS)
4) Luke Skywalker vs Darth Vader (ESB)
5) Obi-Wan Kenobi and Qui-Gon Jinn vs Darth Maul (TPM)
6) Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker vs Count Dooku (ROTS)
7) Yoda vs Darth Sidious (ROTS)
8) Kylo Ren and Rey vs The Praetorian Guards (TLJ)
9) Kylo Ren vs Finn and Rey (TFA)
10) Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Darth Vader (ANH)
11) Obi-Wan Kenobi vs General Grievous (ROTS)
12) Kylo Ren vs The Knights Of Ren (TROS)

The rest are awful so I don't feel like ranking them. Some of the one's near the bottom are disappointing (12), some are eh (11, 10), but none of them ouright suck like the others that aren't present do.

Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader (RotJ)
Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader (ESB)
Darth Sidious vs. Maul and Opress (TCW -  not a movie but oh well)
Yoda vs. Darth Sidious (RotS)
Anakin and Obi Wan vs. Dooku (RotS)
Anakin vs. Obi Wan (RotS)
Maul vs. Qui Gon and Obi Wan (TPM)
Rey and Kylo vs. Palpatine's minions (ROS)
Luke vs. Rey (TLJ)