The Hidden One vs. Sheev

Full wank for both, go.

Full wank Sheev scales above omnipotence, so I bet he wins

Full wank Hidden One ~ FoTJ Luke > DE Sheev via max wank scaling

What scaling puts FotJ Luke above DE Sheev?

FoTJ Luke >>>>>>> DE Luke ~ DE Sidious (No, I don’t believe this, but it’s max wank, as in the most Ret-arded scaling possible)

Refer to this thread for why Sheev wins: https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t1075-darth-sidious-vs-the-son

IdrisianGraecus wrote:FoTJ Luke >>>>>>> DE Luke ~ DE Sidious (No, I don’t believe this, but it’s max wank, as in the most Ret-arded scaling possible)

Why is DE Luke with max wank an equal of DE Sheev? And if it's max wank for both characters, why would we ignore all the evidence pointing to DE Sheev > DE Luke?

Yet Luke wins the fight....

Sheev.

hidden one for power, but i think sheev is better than him in everything else

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Yet Luke wins the fight....

He wins the lightsaber duel. He runs away from the Force storm and concedes inferiority.

Azronger wrote:

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Yet Luke wins the fight....

He wins the lightsaber duel. He runs away from the Force storm and concedes inferiority.

Well, quotes suggest that Luke overpowers Sidious rather than just beating him through superior bladework, so while he wasn't yet able to defeat Sidious's Force Storms, he was powerful enough to beat him "conventionally". There's no indication that Sidious could've just used lightning on him or something (especially since IIRC a quote says that Sidious's Force storms were an act of desperation). Then multiple scaling chains put FotJ Luke far above DE Luke by more than enough to wipe out Leia's elementary battle meditation. You can argue that DE Sidious therefore should not have been able to push FotJ Luke back with his lightning like the Hidden One did.

As for Force Storms, 1) Sidious hasn't ever used them against an individual opponent in a conventional fight, nor is there hard evidence that he could do so given the short distances involved, and 2) if DE Luke + DE Leia can sever his connection via Force harmony, and the Hidden One scales far above him, why couldn't he?

(to be clear, I don't actually think the Hidden One > DE Sidious)

Neither do I, but this is going for full wank (read: autisto) scaling.

I think the Hidden one performed rather well against Luke, even accounting for the circumstances (link to the full fight). The main factor being Koro Zill’s noted anger during the fight, which would have certainly made him stronger than usual. However, it is interesting to note that, unlike in many other instances, Luke was not weakened or injured from previous encounters and, by contrast, appeared to be determined to end the hidden one’s reign and expose him, as he had lied to the kel dors for several decades, along with his(and, by extension their) rejection of life: 
 

Outcast wrote:“He exhaled, forcing the helium-rich Dorin atmosphere out of the mask, then took a new breath before answering. “I guess not. These Baran Do are wronging themselves, too. Following a paranoid down into this hole, pretending to be dead—”
“There you go. The Force is an energy of life. These Kel Dors, in pretending to be dead, are rejecting life. They’re unwittingly becoming dead. How much happiness have you seen down here? How much enthusiasm?”
“I’d say it reaches pretty far into the negative numbers. They’re all about duty, but not about happiness.”
Luke shoveled the last of the larger rocks into his cart. “So if we escape now, what happens to them?”
Ben slumped, defeated. “They continue to live their nasty little lives and nothing gets better.”
“Correct.”
“They brought it on themselves.”
“Spoken with all the sympathy and altruism of a teenager who’d rather be doing something else.”
Ben grinned, unabashed. “You’ve got that right.”

Having established this let’s look at the actual fight: 
1)Luke activates his lightsaber “up in time” and blocks the Hidden one’s charged lightning. Note that he is “took off his feet” not because of bad positioning or a similar reason, but rather the “the strength behind the attack”, per the book itself.
2)after recovering from the attack, the hidden one generates “a ripple in the force”, manipulating the air in the room, by simply tossing his head, so strong that Luke has “greet his teeth”and root himself to withstand it, taking a step forward (indicating that he was proceeding slowly).
3) Luke notes the hidden one’s strength was “great” but his own footing and strength was enough to withstand it. 
4) Zill generates a whirlwind , so strong that Luke’s TK exertion to send it away is described as a “physical blow”. At this point, Luke is barely halfway to the Hidden one. 
5) after once again redirecting the whirlwind (which I might add was powerful enough to crack the permacrete of a pillar), Luke throws a destroyed pillar to his opponent, who leaps away, but in doing so his concentration is broken, which Luke uses as an opportunity to bridge the distance between them and disable him, with a single kick, enough to leave him “exhausted”. 

Overall, based on their duel, I would say the hidden one’s ability to force Luke to root himself and throw him off his feet with a lightning bolt is impressive, but the fact that when Luke gets close to him he is able to basically one shot him doesn’t speak well of his combat skill (his only “feat” in that area being training with Jacen Solo, which really isn’t much). 
The logical conclusion is that the hidden one is certainly more effective when there is distance between him and his opponent. 
As for the OP, I don’t see anything that prevents Sheev from one-shotting in a pure combat scenario, but I think it is reasonable to assume Zill can pressure him in a force contest. 

Spoiler:

Hidden wank vs Wankatine

The Ellimist wrote:

Azronger wrote:

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Yet Luke wins the fight....

He wins the lightsaber duel. He runs away from the Force storm and concedes inferiority.

Well, quotes suggest that Luke overpowers Sidious rather than just beating him through superior bladework, so while he wasn't yet able to defeat Sidious's Force Storms, he was powerful enough to beat him "conventionally". There's no indication that Sidious could've just used lightning on him or something (especially since IIRC a quote says that Sidious's Force storms were an act of desperation). Then multiple scaling chains put FotJ Luke far above DE Luke by more than enough to wipe out Leia's elementary battle meditation. You can argue that DE Sidious therefore should not have been able to push FotJ Luke back with his lightning like the Hidden One did.

1. What quotes suggest DE Luke overpowers DE Sidious?

2. What quote says Sidious' force storms were an act of desperation?

3. What scaling chains put DE Luke "far" below FotJ Luke?