TPM Kenobi vs Vader

O-Siri wrote:

Azronger wrote:

O-Siri wrote:Kenobi. Fact is all of Vader's showings ANH-RotJ are sub-TPM Kenobi. Lucas's statement is consistent with OT Vader's showings. People argue his pre-OT feats and say he grew rapidly. I say Suit-Vader was at his peak in his mid-twenties and went downhill from there. Who says everyone grows with age? Many prizefighters lose their skills and desire when they reach their mid-forties and struggle with journeymen and over-the-hillers, they would have easily crushed in their prime, which is basicly what Vader was doing; struggling with raw and inexperienced Luke and old past it Obi-Wan.

TPM Obi-Wan got fucked by Maul who was pressured by Qui-Gon who is an old man and not a real Jedi by that standard (Maul is also a young boy in TPM as he is younger than Luke was in RotJ, and in TCW he is a cyborg like Vader). ANH Vader on the other hand was stalemating an old man in Ben and then grew a lot from there.

You can pick at Lucas's wording, but the context behind his statement is clear and it's back up by performances. It's not a case of a random Lucas quote taking precedence over EU feats which by itself is backward logic, it's a case of Lucas's intent back up by feats and performances in this particular era. It's the big picture that counts not random quotes.

 Jinn is a bit past-prime but still top-tier as he kept himself in great condition and remained active, unlike Kenobi who wasted away in the desert and was prematurely aged by Tatooine's harsh climate. Maul and TPM Kenobi are young but trained from a young age and well seasoned. Luke, by contrast, started his training late and went to Force cram school for a couple of months.

And Vader wasn't just a cyborg he was crippled, unlike Maul who was restored to his former power through Talzin's magicks.

O-Siri wrote:

Azronger wrote:

O-Siri wrote:Kenobi. Fact is all of Vader's showings ANH-RotJ are sub-TPM Kenobi. Lucas's statement is consistent with OT Vader's showings. People argue his pre-OT feats and say he grew rapidly. I say Suit-Vader was at his peak in his mid-twenties and went downhill from there. Who says everyone grows with age? Many prizefighters lose their skills and desire when they reach their mid-forties and struggle with journeymen and over-the-hillers, they would have easily crushed in their prime, which is basicly what Vader was doing; struggling with raw and inexperienced Luke and old past it Obi-Wan.

TPM Obi-Wan got fucked by Maul who was pressured by Qui-Gon who is an old man and not a real Jedi by that standard (Maul is also a young boy in TPM as he is younger than Luke was in RotJ, and in TCW he is a cyborg like Vader). ANH Vader on the other hand was stalemating an old man in Ben and then grew a lot from there.

You can pick at Lucas's wording, but the context behind his statement is clear and it's back up by performances. It's not a case of a random Lucas quote taking precedence over EU feats which by itself is backward logic, it's a case of Lucas's intent back up by feats and performances in this particular era. It's the big picture that counts not random quotes.

 Jinn is a bit past-prime but still top-tier as he kept himself in great condition and remained active, unlike Kenobi who wasted away in the desert and was prematurely aged by Tatooine's harsh climate. Maul and TPM Kenobi are young but trained from a young age and well seasoned. Luke, by contrast, started his training late and went to Force cram school for a couple of months.

And Vader wasn't just a cyborg he was crippled, unlike Maul who was restored to his former power through Talzin's magicks.

King Joker wrote:Yeah, given Kenobi’s express purpose of protecting Luke, the idea that he would’ve let himself “waste away” is certainly odd. That’s not to say that he could’ve prevented himself from declining, which at a certain point is obviously beyond his control, but there’d be ample reason for Kenobi to invest in maintaining his abilities.

Latham2000 wrote:Wasn’t it implied that Sidious and Dooku had sparring matches?

Azronger wrote:

Latham2000 wrote:Wasn’t it implied that Sidious and Dooku had sparring matches?

That is correct. One of the Fact Files alludes to this, saying that under Sidious' tutelage, Dooku's skills increased even further.

SithSauce wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Latham2000 wrote:Wasn’t it implied that Sidious and Dooku had sparring matches?

That is correct. One of the Fact Files alludes to this, saying that under Sidious' tutelage, Dooku's skills increased even further.

Pls lock this thread, it's a mismatch

"Though the cruisers carried some of the best Jedi in the Order- including Windu, Adi Gallia, Eeth Koth, Plo Koon, Micah Gilett, Qui-Gon Jinn, and Qui-Gon's Padawan Obi-Wan Kenobi- the Yinchorri possessed cortosis-weave armor that could resist lightsaber cuts."

—The New Essential Chronology

Meatpants wrote:As I’ve noted in my current SS with LotL, these kinds of quotes can’t be used to argue Kenobi as a Padawan was one of the greatest Jedi. He was a gifted Padawan, but that does not mean he’s automatically contending with Vader because Windu let him come along during that mission.

LOTL wrote:

Meatpants wrote:As I’ve noted in my current SS with LotL, these kinds of quotes can’t be used to argue Kenobi as a Padawan was one of the greatest Jedi. He was a gifted Padawan, but that does not mean he’s automatically contending with Vader because Windu let him come along during that mission.

Your arguments are certainly wrong though

WalkingInCircles wrote:This thread is just painful.