Meetra Surik vs Qui-Gon Jinn

Sabers
Force
All out

Jinn wins sabers and all out. Probably takes force as well depending on how close he is to Maul (Which should be reasonably close if we take augmentation as a proxy for power).

Qui Gon wins.

Meetra loses round 1. Takes 2 and 3 though.

Meetra wins 2 + 3 with relative ease. Loses one barely.

Meetra clean sweeps, roflmao.

What does Surik have in sabers that Qui-Gon doesn’t for starters?

Surik all save maaaaybe sabers.

PeraltaEagle45 wrote:Surik all save maaaaybe sabers.

Reason?

I'm more impressed with her feat against Sion/Traya on Malachor V than I am with Jinn's against Maul.

In sabers?

That one could probably go either way.

I'm open to arguments about Force (potentially all-out), but I don't see sabers going in Surik's favor. Maul as of TPM is still a better duelist than Traya, and Jinn matched his augmented strength and speed. Jinn also likely has the edge in technical skill.

Jinn, solidly.

Jinn.

Meatpants wrote:I'm open to arguments about Force (potentially all-out), but I don't see sabers going in Surik's favor. Maul as of TPM is still a better duelist than Traya, and Jinn matched his augmented strength and speed. Jinn also likely has the edge in technical skill.

Here's the problem, your basis for Maul being amongst the best ever as a duelist doesn't actually mean he's going to be as dominant outside of his era.

Considering Arren Kae was an equal of Yusanis; who lost to Darth Revan on the basis of being too slow and not on the basis of being outskilled, before becoming Traya decades later and has clearly become a composite master of all forms and is the best duelist in the Triumvirate. The Triumvirate being made up of the strongest Sith in Revan's Empire who were previously Jedi converts, who were collectively the most powerful Jedi of their time from an era canonically stated to be the combative prime of the Jedi order, even more so than in the days of the Clone Wars.

Yeah, you can probably see why I don't think the sabers edge is as clear-cut as you assume.

LadyKulvax wrote:Here's the problem, your basis for Maul being amongst the best ever as a duelist doesn't actually mean he's going to be as dominant outside of his era.

Isn't that the definition of "amongst the best ever"?

LadyKulvax wrote:Considering Arren Kae was an equal of Yusanis; who lost to Darth Revan on the basis of being too slow and not on the basis of being outskilled, before becoming Traya decades later and has clearly become a composite master of all forms and is the best duelist in the Triumvirate. The Triumvirate being made up of the strongest Sith in Revan's Empire who were previously Jedi converts, who were collectively the most powerful Jedi of their time from an era canonically stated to be the combative prime of the Jedi order, even more so than in the days of the Clone Wars.

Okay, so you're building undefined skill on undefined skill on undefined skill. Qui-Gon is considered one of the greatest swordsmen in the history of the Order, and his skills are comparable to that of Maul.

Sure, I can buy the Kotor era as being the "combative prime" of the Jedi in terms of combative viability against other lightsaber wielders - the PT era certainly has a lower proportion of master swordsmen, but these are greater than those of the Kotor era in general. Dedicated swordsmen like Windu, Dooku and Qui-Gon have multiple accolades placing them as the creme de la creme of Jedi swordsmen in the history of the Order, and there's a hella good reason why.

But you're then assuming that duelists like Revan, Traya and the Exile aren't also. Per Scourge, Revan and the Exile were the best Jedi period until the Hero of Tython. Meetra was so skilled she mitigated being overpowered in an augmentative way by Darth Nyriss who with half of her attention could one-shot Scourge in a duel.

Should I suddenly start using that the Exile >> Traya > Atris > Kavar > all other Jedi Guardians > PT Jedi Guardians as some dueling scaling just because Jinn doesn't?

Meetra Surik wins

LadyKulvax wrote:Per Scourge, Revan and the Exile were the best Jedi period until the Hero of Tython.

And this means what exactly?

LadyKulvax wrote:Meetra was so skilled she mitigated being overpowered in an augmentative way by Darth Nyriss who with half of her attention could one-shot Scourge in a duel.

Both of them were getting blitzed.

LadyKulvax wrote:Should I suddenly start using that the Exile >> Traya > Atris > Kavar > all other Jedi Guardians > PT Jedi Guardians as some dueling scaling just because Jinn doesn't?

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

It means they're also the absolute best of their era.

It's specifically stated that Meetra wasn't, kek.

Because KotOR > PT average means Meetra has disgusting levels of scaling to abuse here.

In terms of feats I don't see Maul > Traya in dueling skill when ambiguous accolades are his only claim to that fame.

LadyKulvax wrote:It means they're also the absolute best of their era.

Okay, but the PT era swordsmen I'm referring to are stated to be the best in the entire history of the Order, this isn't restricted by the era.

LadyKulvax wrote:It's specifically stated that Meetra wasn't, kek.

Okay, she's still inferior to Nyriss, and it's kinda pointless to try and scale from that anyway.

LadyKulvax wrote:Because KotOR > PT average means Meetra has disgusting levels of scaling to abuse here.

Except the best swordmasters in the PT are not "average" for their era, in fact they're stated to be among the best of all eras, so that's irrelevant.

LadyKulvax wrote:In terms of feats I don't see Maul > Traya in dueling skill when ambiguous accolades are his only claim to that fame.

I mean, Traya also only has accolades. She doesn't possess any real demonstrations in lightsaber combat. Maul is at least stated to be second only to Sidious - of course this is to be taken tentatively - though it's still an indication of his dueling ability.

Yo Sion had his back turned to Traya and still managed to turn around a slice her hand off before she could react 

Pretty sure Maul>>>>Traya, seeing how Maul is >>>> Sion

Traya’s power was linked to the Exile’s at that point. She grew stronger as the Exile did. At that point, the Exile was weak as shit.

Traya later in the game manages to ragdoll Sion mid conversation, and also manages to ragdoll 20 Sith Assassins.

Traya ragdoll the three masters without a gesture, and one of those masters was above Dark Bastila high off of the SF, who was powerful enough to give KOTOR Revan a good fight while simultaneously TKing 3 giant doors.

Meetra >> Malachor Meetra > Tired Malachor Meetra > Trayus Core Traya > Malachor Traya >> Traya >>>> Vrook, Zez Kai Ell & Kavar, and any one is > Dark Bastila high off of Star Forge << KOTOR Revan.

Surik