Reborn Krayt vs Vitiate

ILS wrote:

LSDMB wrote:

ILS wrote:
Celeste-Muur outclass Muur by himself.

It's also worth noting that Legacy Muur had at bare minimum around 150 years more time than past Muur to contemplate the dark side and discipline his mind or whatever.

Correct. Also, there's a marked difference between Celeste when she first emerged during Dark Times and the one who has been around for a century and a half acquainting herself with the amulet's power and becoming more ..comfortable.. with Muur inside her head.

It's kind of funny. On-paper if you told someone that Y is a normal Force user, but X is that Force user stuffed inside another powerful Force user with a century of experience over them, it'd be a no-brainer that X wins.

I mean an exception to this is Ragnos possessing Tavion, but Tavion's body also reduced to ash as a result of this, which didn't happen with Morne.

IdrisianGraecus wrote:SWTOR Vitiate from the JK story is weaker than the novel version.

ILS wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:Ajunta Pall affirms in KotOR that the source of the Exiles' power, not just singularly but collectively, was the Star Map on Korriban. Darth Malak's source of power was the Star Forge which already normally dwarfs any of the maps; as the stated 'pinnacle' of Rakatan power, and yet he took it to 300% power capacity by the time a majorly tired and hindered Revan kills him.

So instead of Midichlorians, the source of their power was this Star Map? Or instead of military, material or political power, it was the star map? Did they brandish it in battle like an amulet? More details needed.

Also need more details on Malak. I don't currently see why I need to accept that he scales over the Exiles.

Also, source for Revan being majorly tired?

Except the levels of scaling put it far beyond doubt. Ajunta Pall even refers to Revan's power as 'blinding' yet that's a Revan hindered by Korriban and far before his prime in KotOR. A Revan who would get stomped by Malak, no less. Muur was merely Pall's Shadow Hand at the time.

Maul referred to 10 year old Anakin as a nexus in the Force. Reading someone's Force signature doesn't really tell you about their applicable power in a fight. Muur was Pall's Shadow Hand, true, but the Exiles were also all trying to kill each other. Whatever hierarchy they maintained was tenuous, thus there's no reason to be sure about who was more powerful than who and by what margins.

The Revan that Vitiate faced was far and away much stronger than the hindered one that killed Malak, yet Vitiate mopped up Revan pretty handily once they got into the only real power exchange of their fight.

[size=33]Why is he "far and away" stronger? And Revan did very well for himself despite the hindrance of the nexus which in turn amped Vitiate. In fact it's a double nexus - the planet and the citadel itself. In reality him and Vitiate are probably pretty close on neutral ground.[/size]

Like I said, all the conservativism you can muster surrounding the Muur/Krayt comparison isn't going to make a difference given how Malak alone at least replicates the power gap between Muur and Krayt that supposedly exists

[size=33]That remains to be seen. Krayt was pre-prime and extremely weakened going into fighting Celeste-Muur in a very quantifiable way, and it's also very likely that Celeste-Muur outclass Muur by himself.[/size]


[size=33]In other words, if you don't overstate the gap between Muur and Malak/Vitiate, and you don't ignore all of the real mitigating factors between the Muur/Krayt comparisons to begin with, you aren't left with much.[/size]

Ajunta Pall wrote:"We were not the first to fall to the dark side. But we had more power than those before us. It came from elsewhere - our oldest secret. Only we would know, we lords. Only we would know where our power came from. It is a secret of so long ago. I no longer remember. So much power, it is blinding. You must find this place, or have you? Or did you? Or will you? Oh, so many images. I see your heart, human Jedi. I see your power, your pride. You, you will find the old place, the dark place, and you will regret it."

Bastila Shan wrote:"There is no one left with the power to control the Forge, though many have tried. I have watched them be devoured, their life drained from them as they attempt to tap into its power. Knowing what we do of the Builders and their fate, I'm convinced that Revan did not intend us to keep the Star Forge - to use it would mean the end of the Sith... the end of the Force."

Ancient Rakatan Computer wrote:"In your terminology, the Star Forge is a tool of the dark side. It corrupts those who use it so that it can generate greater and greater amounts of negative energy to fuel itself. The Builders thought they were strong enough to control this effect, but they were wrong. They became victims of their own creation, and eventually their hatred turned them against each other. Civil war destroyed the Infinite Empire - a lesson to remember. Only one who is immensely strong in mind can harness the power of the Star Forge without suffering a similar fate."