- O-Siri
17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 16th 2019, 5:08 pm
I thought about this matchup, assumed Maul was the easy victor but after mulling it over I actually think Kenobi has more than a decent shot. Maul has infinitely better training, but Kenobi has more practical experience, and his spar with Jinn imo is at the very least on par with Maul's Restraint showings. His Orisis massacre, including his blitzing of a Death Watch Mandalorian instructor and "an even better fighter" in Trezza unarmed, is somewhat hard to argue against, however, so I'm not completely sold on Kenobi either. Thoughts?
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: 17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 16th 2019, 5:25 pm
NotAA3 wrote:Maul.
- The LostLevel Five
Re: 17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 16th 2019, 6:46 pm
"Maul has infinitely better training, but Kenobi has more practical experience,"
Eh, disagree.
Sidious recalled the voyages he had taken ten years earlier to watch Maul fight in gladiatorial matches on Orsis and nearby worlds. Driven to win against all odds, unaffected by pain, daring, and terrifying. An up-and-coming contender at ten years of age and a champion at twelve. Under the markings that masked his face, sleeved his arms, and twisted around his legs and torso, the scars of those battles to the death.
But this one will not be content until he has killed a Jedi Master, Sidious thought.
―Darth Plagueis
There are some other quotes which talk about the "countless" opponents Maul had slain, including the "worst the galaxy had to offer", then there's the "innumerable scars" Maul sustained from sparring with Sheev himself, sparring with groups of extremely advanced droids which were programmed to kill him (which isn't really sparring when you think about it), learning everything there was to learn 2 years early from the Orsis Academy and then receiving additional training from Meltch Krakko, and finally the whole ordeal on Hypori. Maul was a "hardened killer" and the "perfect Sith weapon" before his balls had dropped, so I don't see how Kenobi has more practical experience.
Eh, disagree.
Sidious recalled the voyages he had taken ten years earlier to watch Maul fight in gladiatorial matches on Orsis and nearby worlds. Driven to win against all odds, unaffected by pain, daring, and terrifying. An up-and-coming contender at ten years of age and a champion at twelve. Under the markings that masked his face, sleeved his arms, and twisted around his legs and torso, the scars of those battles to the death.
But this one will not be content until he has killed a Jedi Master, Sidious thought.
―Darth Plagueis
There are some other quotes which talk about the "countless" opponents Maul had slain, including the "worst the galaxy had to offer", then there's the "innumerable scars" Maul sustained from sparring with Sheev himself, sparring with groups of extremely advanced droids which were programmed to kill him (which isn't really sparring when you think about it), learning everything there was to learn 2 years early from the Orsis Academy and then receiving additional training from Meltch Krakko, and finally the whole ordeal on Hypori. Maul was a "hardened killer" and the "perfect Sith weapon" before his balls had dropped, so I don't see how Kenobi has more practical experience.
- O-Siri
Re: 17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 17th 2019, 1:34 am
Just a minor edit, I meant 15-year-old Maul; I forgot he was 15 at the time. The one that seriously pressured Sidious is a different beast altogether.
- CuckedCurryLevel Four
Re: 17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 17th 2019, 2:35 am
Seriously pressured Sidious my ass
- dark_globe
Re: 17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 17th 2019, 4:03 am
maul never seriously pressured sidious . he was never even close .
- LOTL
Re: 17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 17th 2019, 8:07 am
Interesting fight. Not really sure but probably Maul yeah
- The LostLevel Five
Re: 17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 17th 2019, 9:40 am
This is a pretty cool period in Maul's career that we don't really talk about much.
Darth Maul is described as being a “blazing lightsaber aimed directly at the heart of the Jedi Order”, a “perfect Sith weapon” as an adolescent alone.
At the age of three Maul is able to pinpoint the vulnerabilities in the anatomy of nearly every species on Mustafar.
At the age of seven Maul displays skill in nerve strikes.
At roughly the age of thirteen, Maul is already considered a master of numerous martial arts by the Orsis Academy. He also learned Teras Kasi as a child.
Maul at the age of seven challenges a six foot five inches tall, hulking, teenage Abyssin to an unarmed fight. Though he sustains a great deal of damage and lands a strike of his own, his older opponent overpowers him. Maul seemingly overcomes or feigns his injuries, however, as he catches his opponent off-guard later and uses the opportunity to bite his nose, knock him into convulsion and unconsciousness by striking nerve clusters, and target his throat, nearly killing him. So to reiterate, as a seven year old, Maul could have killed an 6 foot 5 inhumanly strong Abyssin with his bare hands. Without drawing on the Force.
At the age of ten Maul was entered into a series of gladiatorial fights to the death through the Orsis academy, able to win against all odds, which likely involved facing older and more experienced competition, and becoming a champion gladiator at the age of twelve. This would have been done with Maul restricting his usage of the Force outside of his passive senses and strength.
Only augmenting his senses and physical strength, he survived the Gora: left to fend for himself with nothing but a vibroblade against "countless" wild beasts which kept him sleepless. Each subsequent day out of the seven became more intense, yet Maul not only killed in self-defence and for food, but also for sheer sport. By the end he almost regretted that he had to leave because of how much he enjoyed the freedom.
He felt significantly more powerful and connected to the dark side after this, and then murders hundreds of cadets and guards unarmed at the Orsis academy. Said trainers and trainees were advanced enough, in Maul's estimation, to lead a small stealth team which could disable the Trade Federations entire armada.
He then snaps Meltch Krakko's neck with one hand, and throws his corpse into a fireplace.
Meltch, a former member of the Mandalorian Deathwatch, is considered by Trezza to be an ideal trainer and a gifted strategist.
Meltch used to fight Jedi, and is considered one of the best Mandalorians/instructors. Sidious actually irritates Trezza by pointing out that Krakko being absent from the academy due to him being the only Mandalorian instructor, indicating that he had knowledge the others lacked
Maul learned all there was to know from the Orsis instructors two years early, then spent the following years being trained exclusively by Krakko once he returned.
Krakko was fast and strong enough to basically oneshot 13 year old Maul (who wasn't using the Force). Also, very interesting: the text notes that Maul was able to "see" Krakko's "incredibly swift approach" because he was fast enough. This is interesting because it means lesser beings would not be able to see clearly if at all Krakko's approach... and this happened in an open hanger with good lighting. So Krakko has FTE combat/travel speed.
In contrast, two years later Maul can basically no-sell these punches to the jaw.
Just as an extra feat, Krakko basically shrugged off being shot continuously by a low-energy-setting blaster at close range, to the point Maul overheated the blaster from firing it so much.
Now there's possibly a contradiction between two sources here, but they're both interesting either way. In End Game it's said that Maul "joined in hand-to-hand combat" with Trezza and "came close to losing" in part due to him leaving Trezza for last and not being at the peak of his strength. This is the most recent description of the fight.
But in the version where we actually see what happens (released on the 1st January 2012, opposed to End Game being released 31st January 2012), Maul simply catches a knife thrown at him by Trezza and buries it in his chest. It's possible that this was the "mistake" Maul made by allowing Trezza to even come this close to killing him. Either way, it seems clear that Maul can brutalise Trezza in CQC, and the fact Trezza tried to deceive him in this way and was shocked at how Maul killed Krakko indicates he didn't believe he had much chance in a fair fight.
Trezza has some fairly decent wank. He has over a century of experience providing the most elite combat training in the galaxy, and is more skilled than Meltch Krakko. Sidious himself notes that Orsis is a very exclusive school and that Trezza "is as tough as they come".
It was at Plagueis' discretion that Maul be trained at Orsis, which he considers an elite training facility, and he considers Trezza to be a combat specialist. Interestingly, he considers Orsis the next logical step only if Maul's Force abilities manifested as an infant. It was only after Maul had destroyed Orsis that he was put to work against any of the Sith's salient enemies.
I'll throw in some physical feats and then that's more or less all of the cool stuff Maul has by this point.
Maul, at roughly the age of thirteen, travels up a six meter cliff, injures and disarms two opponents in ten seconds. Kilindi Matako, the second best student at the Orsis Academy, required almost a minute to scale the same cliff. This is without using Force Speed.
At the age of fifteen, Maul is capable of effortlessly dodging blaster bolts fired by two Orsis Academy Cadets and the renowned Mandalorian and Instructor, Meltch Krakko, although he allows himself to be hit occasionally in order to mask his Force powers.
Maul is able to Force Leap out of a chasm and over the heads of Meltch Krakko and two Orsis Academy cadets and open fire on them before they can draw their weapons.
At the age of fifteen, Maul runs through a hail of blaster bolts without being hit, without drawing on the Force in any obvious way to do so.
At the age of fifteen, Maul dodges hails of blaster bolts from over a dozen shooters without drawing on the Force in any obvious way, only sustaining one grazing wound to his arm from a ricocheted bolt.
At the age of fifteen, Maul bruises the bodies and breaks the bones of numerous highly skilled mercenaries.
Darth Maul is described as being a “blazing lightsaber aimed directly at the heart of the Jedi Order”, a “perfect Sith weapon” as an adolescent alone.
Where Darth Sidious was a strategist, his fearsome apprentice Darth Maul was a blazing lightsaber aimed directly at the heart of the Jedi Order. A Zabrak born on the world of lridonia, the child who would one day be known as Darth Maul was taken offworld and indoctrinated into the ways of the dark side, trained by Darth Sidious in not only Sith lore, but in the Jedi arts. Any display of fear on his part was punished with vicious retribution. Any hint of mercy in his character was rewarded with severe cruelty. One those rare occasions when he relaxed his guard, his master nearly killed him to remind him that a Sith can never afford a moment of rest. After years of this kind of treatment, Darth Maul was absolutely ruthless―a perfect Sith weapon. By the time he reached adolescence, Darth Maul was already a hardened, remorseless killer.
―The Dark Side Sourcebook
At the age of three Maul is able to pinpoint the vulnerabilities in the anatomy of nearly every species on Mustafar.
However, Maul had learned much during his time with the droid in the training room. The room had special exercise equipment and weapons, as well as computer consoles that had been programmed to educate and challenge Maul's mind and mechanical abilities. He could identify hundreds of star systems, assemble complicated three-dimensional puzzles, and pinpoint the vulnerabilities of nearly every native creature on Mustafar.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
At the age of seven Maul displays skill in nerve strikes.
Dalok tried to roll away from Maul, but Maul stayed on him, slamming and driving his knees into the nerve dusters in the Abyssin's shoulders. Dalok was flat on his back as he convulsed, his arms flopping uselessly beside him. Dalok passed out.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
At roughly the age of thirteen, Maul is already considered a master of numerous martial arts by the Orsis Academy. He also learned Teras Kasi as a child.
Six years had passed since his arrival on Orsis. Taller and stronger, he still did not know his own age, but based on his observations of similar humanoids, he assumed he was about thirteen years old. Although he was already considered a master of numerous martial arts, he still had difficulty working as part of a team.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
Early in his life, before his voice had deepened, Maul had learned the intricate movements and forms of the teräs käsi fighting style, the patterns of movements based on the hunting characteristics of various beasts throughout the galaxy: Charging Wampa, Rancor Rising, Dancing Dragonsnake, and many more.
―Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter
Maul at the age of seven challenges a six foot five inches tall, hulking, teenage Abyssin to an unarmed fight. Though he sustains a great deal of damage and lands a strike of his own, his older opponent overpowers him. Maul seemingly overcomes or feigns his injuries, however, as he catches his opponent off-guard later and uses the opportunity to bite his nose, knock him into convulsion and unconsciousness by striking nerve clusters, and target his throat, nearly killing him. So to reiterate, as a seven year old, Maul could have killed an 6 foot 5 inhumanly strong Abyssin with his bare hands. Without drawing on the Force.
As Maul stepped out onto the same level as the cadets, he suddenly realized they were all taller than he. Every one of them.
Seeing Trezza, the cadets halted their exercises, lowered their combat staffs, and bowed to him. Trezza gestured to Maul and said, "We have a new cadet. His name is Maul. I'm told he can fight."
One of the Rodians laughed out loud. Trezza shot him an icy look. The Rodian shut his snout.
Trezza cleared his throat. "I'm looking for a volunteer. Will any one of you fight the new cadet?"
Maul did not expect every cadet to raise an arm, tentacle, or equivalent limb into the air and shout in unison with the others, "I volunteer. Master Trezza!"
Trezza looked at Maul. "Remember what I said about the rules on my property, son."
"Yes, Master Trezza." Maul looked at Sidious.
Sidious adjusted his goggles, leaned close to Maul, and whispered, "Select the largest and most muscular student. Introduce yourself. Hurt him. No killing."
[...]
Maul breezed past the malodorous Rodians and came to a stop before a teenage Abyssin, a hulking native of the planet Byss. Distinguished by a broad head that held a single eye with a slit pupil over a broad, fleshy nose and a mouth full of sharp teeth, the Abyssin stood nearly two meters tall. Maul lined his head back, looked up into the Abyssin's eye, and said. "I am Maul. Your move."
The Abyssin’s nose twitched, and then he blinked his eye in disbelief. When he had volunteered to fight the boy less than a minute earlier, he had never imagined the boy would actually choose him. His eye flicked to see Trezza. Trezza nodded to him.
The Abyssin shifted his feet. Maul stood his ground. All the other cadets stepped back, leaving room for the combatants.
The Abyssin launched a sweeping kick that knocked Maul off his feet, and then lashed out with one hard-muscled arm that connected with Maul in midair. Maul flew across the courtyard and crashed to the ground. Both Rodians roared with laughter. Trezza did not reprimand them.
The Abyssin leaped forward, landing on his powerful legs a short distance from his opponent, and waited for Maul to rise. Maul shook his head as if he were making sure nothing was loose as he slowly pushed himself up from the ground. Once he was on his feet, he turned to face the Abyssin again. Maul threw a jab at the Abyssin's left thigh, just above his knee.
If the Abyssin felt the jab. he didn't show it. He pivoted on one foot and kicked out with the other, catching Maul in the stomach. The sound of the impact made a few cadets wince. Maul was again lifted off his feet. Hitting the ground, his body rolled like a broken doll past several cadets until he came to a stop near the feet of the female Nautolan. The Nautolan looked down at Maul's small, tattooed back, then turned to face Trezza and said, "With all due respect. Master Trezza, this is not a fair fight."
"What's that?" Sidious said as he tapped his walking stick against the ground. "Did Maul do something unfair?"
"Not at all," Trezza said. "He simply chose to go up against an older cadet."
"He does have spirit," Sidious said. Then he muttered, "Curse these old goggles. I can't see a thing."
Maul braced one palm against the ground. His arm trembled as he pushed himself up. The Abyssin stepped closer to Maul, moving up behind him. Maul started to turn to face the Abyssin, but then his legs buckled and he collapsed. Maul squeezed his eyes shut, then opened them. He looked at a cloud overhead, then shifted his gaze to see the Abyssin. Maul gasped, "What's... your name?"
The Abyssin blinked at the boy for a few seconds but finally replied, "Dalok." Maul twisted his neck away from the Abyssin and his horns dug into the ground. His chest shuddered and then his limbs went slack. He turned his head again, and his eyes rolled up into their sockets before they shifted back to stare in the general direction of the Abyssin. "Your name," Maul repeated. "Please ... tell me… what’s your name?"
The other cadets quietly moved in around the Abyssin to get a closer took at the defeated boy. Seeing that Maul was thoroughly beaten, the Abyssin knelt beside him, leaned over his face, and said, "I just told you. My name's Dalok. Are you all ri—"
Maul grabbed the back of Dalok's head, pulled Dalok’s face up against his own, and sank his teeth into Dalok's fleshy nose. The startled Abyssin screamed. With his teeth and one arm, Maul held tight to Dalok's head while he moved his other hand to grab Dalok's throat.
The surrounding cadets recoiled. Dalok tried to roll away from Maul, but Maul stayed on him, slamming and driving his knees into the nerve dusters in the Abyssin's shoulders. Dalok was flat on his back as he convulsed, his arms flopping uselessly beside him Dalok passed out.
Maul rose to stand beside Dalok's unconscious body. Turning slowly, he looked at every one of the surrounding cadets, letting them see the Abyssin's blood dripping down his dim and notice that he wasn't even breathing hard. He thought he smelled fear from the female Nautolan who had tried to call off the fight. He didn't know how old she was, but noted she was slightly taller than he. When his yellow-eyed gaze fell on the Rodians who'd laughed at him, he spat at the ground.
An astonished Trezza looked at the goggled man beside him. "You said Maul has been in a few fights. Just how many is 'a few?' "
"I'm not sure, really," Sidious said with a shrug. "Obviously, I never actually saw any of his fights. Tell me, did he win this one?"
"He almost beat his opponent to death."
"Did he, now?" Sidious chuckled as he elbowed Trezza. 'I told you was a bit wild."
[...]
Keeping her eyes fixed on Maul, the Nautolan said, "You did know that Dalok's an Abyssin, didn't you? That Abyssins have regenerative abilities?"
In fact, Maul was already aware of this, but that particular bit of knowledge had not crossed his mind when he'd challenged the Abyssin. He'd simply selected the largest and most muscular student, just as Sidious had instructed. Maul looked away from the Nautolan and let his gaze flick back and forth at the Rodians' snouts. "No," he lied. "I didn't know."
The Rodians trembled. Maul knew he was going to enjoy his time at Orsis Academy.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
At the age of ten Maul was entered into a series of gladiatorial fights to the death through the Orsis academy, able to win against all odds, which likely involved facing older and more experienced competition, and becoming a champion gladiator at the age of twelve. This would have been done with Maul restricting his usage of the Force outside of his passive senses and strength.
Sidious recalled the voyages he had taken ten years earlier to watch Maul fight in gladiatorial matches on Orsis and nearby worlds. Driven to win against all odds, unaffected by pain, daring, and terrifying. An up-and-coming contender at ten years of age and a champion at twelve. Under the markings that masked his face, sleeved his arms, and twisted around his legs and torso, the scars of those battles to the death.
But this one will not be content until he has killed a Jedi Master, Sidious thought.
―Darth Plagueis
Only augmenting his senses and physical strength, he survived the Gora: left to fend for himself with nothing but a vibroblade against "countless" wild beasts which kept him sleepless. Each subsequent day out of the seven became more intense, yet Maul not only killed in self-defence and for food, but also for sheer sport. By the end he almost regretted that he had to leave because of how much he enjoyed the freedom.
For Maul, the current exercise was merely a warmup for a bigger challenge on Orsis, an Academy rite of passage called the Gora. Named after the challenge's location, an immense volcanic crater filled with dense forests, vast swamps, and bloodthirsty beasts, the Gora required a cadet to traverse the crater for seven days, surviving without food or equipment except for a single vibroblade. From what Maul had heard, being chased by camouflaged hunters was nothing compared to surviving the Gora.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
The first day of the Gora was beyond intense.
The second day was even more brutal.
The third, fourth, fifth. and sixth days were increasingly bloody. And Maul was having the time of his life.
Countless wild predators kept him constantly occupied as well as sleepless. Except for his heightened senses and physical strength, he did not use the Force in any obvious way. With his vibroblade more often in his hand than in the sheath snapped to his upper leg, he moved like a jungle animal through the forests and grassy swamps that filled the enormous crater, killing some beasts in self-defense, some for food, and others for sheer sport.
Never had he known such freedom. After years of obeying others while containing his rage, he was able to run and hunt and kill as he pleased. By the seventh day, he almost regretted that his journey across the Gora would soon be over.
And then the storm hit. The clouds seemed to roll in from out of nowhere. Within minutes, torrential downpours and hurricane winds hammered at the jungle, turning ground to mud and tearing trees from the ground. The Gora had been dangerous enough with bloodthirsty creatures lurking everywhere, and Maul began to wonder if nature itself were trying to kill him.
Scrambling over fallen trees and trudging through flooded swamps, he made his way through a thorn forest to a rustic outpost, his final destination in the Gora. Once he reached the outpost, he could call for an airspeeder lo return him to the Academy.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
He felt significantly more powerful and connected to the dark side after this, and then murders hundreds of cadets and guards unarmed at the Orsis academy. Said trainers and trainees were advanced enough, in Maul's estimation, to lead a small stealth team which could disable the Trade Federations entire armada.
Night had long fallen by the time be reached the Academy's perimeter, and he felt very different from the cadet he had been when he left to begin the Gora. Now, his education seemed ages behind him. He felt he was one with the dark side of the Force.
He moved quickly and quietly through the courtyards and buildings. First, he killed the Academy's sentries, and then the security guards posted outside the training rooms and barracks. He used the Force when it was most efficient, and his bare hands whenever it pleased him. Knowing that most of the cadets would already he asleep in the barracks, he went noiselessly from one darkened room to the next, leaving a trail of death.
He entered the room shared by Kilindi and Daleen. Kilindi's bunk was empty. Daleen's wasn't. Daleen was snoring lightly. A moment later, her life had ended, and Maul was moving out the door. He took no comfort from Kilindi's absence. He knew he would find her.
When he arrived upon the sleeping forms of the Rodians Hubnutz and Fretch, he woke them before he broke their necks.
Not every cadet was sleeping. Maul found a group of older cadets practicing martial arts in a training room. He locked the doors, switched off the lights, and moved through the group like a furious beast of prey.
Covered in blood, he proceeded to the building where the instructors had their own quarters.
[...]
Soon after the destruction of the Orsis Academy, Maul learned why Sidious had been so protective of his own identity for so many years.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
When, on orders from his Master, he had single-handedly butchered the trainers and trainees at the Orsis combat academy five years earlier, not a being had fled. Not the Mandalorian Meltch nor his pair of lethal Rodians; not Trezza or his well-trained Nautolan ward, Kilindi. All had stood their ground and died with honor.
―End Game
At Tatooine it hadn’t been necessary to employ the Scimitar’s cloaking capabilities, but Maul did so now in order to maneuver the ship into the core of what remained of the Trade Federation armada, which consisted of half a dozen freighters and a single ring-shaped Lucrehulk-class control ship, which oversaw all elements of the Neimoidians’ droid army. Though formidable, the control ship was not impregnable, and the shoddiness of the operation sickened him. A stealth team made up of agents of the sort Trezza had trained on Orsis would have been able to infiltrate the vessel easily and destroy it from within, essentially paralyzing the Trade Federation’s entire force.
―End Game
He then snaps Meltch Krakko's neck with one hand, and throws his corpse into a fireplace.
Maul opened the door and stepped into the office. Trezza was seated behind his massive desk. Kilindi stood before him. And Meltch Krakko stood on the far side of the room, near an open fireplace.
Kilindi gasped at the sight of Maul's blood-soaked body. Maul fixed his gaze on Krakko and walked straight toward him. Even though Maul was not carrying any weapons, Krakko drew his blaster and fired at him. Maul jerked his body to the left, dodged the blaster boll, and kept walking toward Krakko. Krakko fired two more shots. Maul dodged those too before he grabbed Krakko's gun arm with one hand, and his neck with the other. Krakko sputtered angrily. What Maul did next made Trezza gasp and Kilindi cover her mouth with her hands.
Maul kept his eyes on Trezza as he hurled Krakko's lifeless body into the fireplace.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
Meltch, a former member of the Mandalorian Deathwatch, is considered by Trezza to be an ideal trainer and a gifted strategist.
“They underestimated a rival they thought they had eliminated. With their leader dead, the rest scattered and Meltch wound up here, because, we, too, value loyalty and tradition. If not an ideal trainer, he’s a gifted strategist. And he was correct about your making this personal. Especially now that your powers are increasing.”
―Restraint
Meltch used to fight Jedi, and is considered one of the best Mandalorians/instructors. Sidious actually irritates Trezza by pointing out that Krakko being absent from the academy due to him being the only Mandalorian instructor, indicating that he had knowledge the others lacked
"Not at all. On the contrary, I've met a few very accomplished bounty hunters in my time," Sidious stroked his chin thoughtfully. "I've heard your instructors include a Mandalorian who once fought Jedi. I believe his name was Krakko. Meltch Krakko. Is it true he's the best?"
Trezza stared quizzically at Sidious's goggles, then looked back at the cadets below, "He's still among the best, but I regret to inform you that your information is dated. Commander Krakko left us some time ago, returned to his clan. As you may be aware, the Mandalorians are engaged in a civil war."
"Oh, now that is unfortunate," Sidious said as he patted Maul's shoulder. "I really had hoped the boy might receive training from a Mandalorian. You see, Maul has been in a few fights, but... well, he can be a bit wild. He lacks finesse. He needs to learn how to make each move count. I don't suppose you have another Mandalorian about?"
Maul was surprised and embarrassed by his Master's description of him, but he kept his expression neutral. He almost missed the irritation in Trezza's voice as the Falleen replied, "Commander Krakko was our only Mandalorian instructor. But I'm confident that we can still teach young Maul here some things that he can't learn anywhere else."
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
Maul learned all there was to know from the Orsis instructors two years early, then spent the following years being trained exclusively by Krakko once he returned.
"No," Trezza said, shifting his datapad so he held it behind his back. He looked at Maul and Kilindi. "Recently, the Orsis Academy faculty and I realized we had a problem. A problem concerning you two." Maul sensed Kilindi was alarmed by Trezza s announcement. He found it hard to understand why she couldn't at least pretend to remain calm. "Perhaps I should rephrase that," Trezza continued. The problem was not with you, but with our existing fatuity. There was little more that the instructors could teach either of you about stealth tactics or hand-to-hand combat techniques, and yet you have two more years ahead of you at the Academy. In short, you require greater challenges than the other cadets. Now, I mentioned this problem to a certain businessman," Trezza gestured to Maul's Master, who smiled sheepishly, "Maul, your Master suggested a former instructor who only recently became available again. Your Master also made a generous donation to enable Orsis Academy to secure this instructor. And now, it is my honor to introduce both of you to-"
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
Krakko was fast and strong enough to basically oneshot 13 year old Maul (who wasn't using the Force). Also, very interesting: the text notes that Maul was able to "see" Krakko's "incredibly swift approach" because he was fast enough. This is interesting because it means lesser beings would not be able to see clearly if at all Krakko's approach... and this happened in an open hanger with good lighting. So Krakko has FTE combat/travel speed.
He saw a figure, a man who wore dark gray body armor and whose head was concealed by a helmet with a distinctive T-visor. The armored man held a dart pistol in one hand and had a missile launcher secured to his back.
A Mandalorian.
Maul knew about Mandalorians, whose warrior heritage dated back thousands of years. He also knew that two factions of Mandalorians had battled each other in a long civil war, and that the war had ended recently. And he recalled that his own Master, after their arrival on Orsis six years earlier, had talked with Trezza about a former Academy instructor, a Mandalorian who had once fought Jedi.
Maul was fast enough to see the Mandalorian's incredibly swift approach. He was also fast enough to dodge the first kick that came at his head. But he wasn't fast enough to stop Meltch Krakko's fist from knocking him out cold.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
In contrast, two years later Maul can basically no-sell these punches to the jaw.
Meltch glanced to the Rodians, who shook their heads. Furious, then, he stormed past Trezza. Maul sensed the punch coming long before the Mando put his weight behind it. Standing still, he turned his head in the direction of the gauntleted blow and managed to remain on his feet. Spitting blood to the ground, he glared at the Mando.
Meltch snorted and offered up his square chin. “Go ahead, Maul, since you seem bent on making this personal.”
―Restraint
Just as an extra feat, Krakko basically shrugged off being shot continuously by a low-energy-setting blaster at close range, to the point Maul overheated the blaster from firing it so much.
Maul was done with restraining his powers, and pretending to be something that he wasn't. Summoning the Force, he launched himself from the overhang and sailed up and out of the chasm. He somersaulted and twisted in midair, flipping his body over the three camouflaged hunters so that he landed on his feet, facing their backs. Startled, Krakko and the Rodians turned fast. Maul had already drawn his blaster and opened fire at them at point-blank range.
Krakko grunted and the Rodians cried out in pain as the blaster bolts hit them. They jumped and rolled away from the chasm's edge, firing back at Maul. For a moment, they moved as if their mimetic suits still gave them an advantage over their prey. Maul used the Force to avoid being hit while he rapidly squeezed and released his blaster's trigger, moving his arm back and forth to aim and fire at each of his cringing targets. He didn't miss once.
Hubnutz and Fretch tried to find protective cover. Maul shot at their legs and continued shooting them after they fell and began screaming. Krakko deactivated his own mimetic suit so he was fully visible. Facing Maul, he shouted, "Stand down!"
Maul fired at Krakko.
"Stand down!"
Maul pretended he didn't hear Krakko over the blaster's report. He felt the blaster start to overheat but kept firing.
And then an amplified voice from above bellowed. "Cease fire!"
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
Now there's possibly a contradiction between two sources here, but they're both interesting either way. In End Game it's said that Maul "joined in hand-to-hand combat" with Trezza and "came close to losing" in part due to him leaving Trezza for last and not being at the peak of his strength. This is the most recent description of the fight.
In planning his attack on the Orsis training camp, he had initially decided that his first kill should be Trezza. The Falleen had to be taken out while Maul was at the peak of his strength. Then the rest of the trainers and trainees could be seen to. But Maul hadn’t stood by his decision, undermined by reluctance to kill the being who had in many ways been his only flesh-and-blood caregiver. As a consequence, he had come close to losing to Trezza when they had finally joined in hand-to-hand combat. Maul had promised himself that he wouldn’t make the same mistake twice. Mistakes were part of the past—mere lessons like those he had learned on Tatooine—and he knew what had to be done now.
―End Game
But in the version where we actually see what happens (released on the 1st January 2012, opposed to End Game being released 31st January 2012), Maul simply catches a knife thrown at him by Trezza and buries it in his chest. It's possible that this was the "mistake" Maul made by allowing Trezza to even come this close to killing him. Either way, it seems clear that Maul can brutalise Trezza in CQC, and the fact Trezza tried to deceive him in this way and was shocked at how Maul killed Krakko indicates he didn't believe he had much chance in a fair fight.
Maul sensed Trezza's anxiety and knew Trezza was just trying to stall and distract him. He was not surprised to see the flat metal knife pop out of Trezza's sleeve.
Catching the knife between his fingers. Trezza threw it at Maul. Maul's left hand flew in front of him to catch the knife by its handle, then whipped it back with blinding speed at Trezza's upper chest. Trezza gasped, clutched at his chest, and collapsed upon his desk.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
Trezza has some fairly decent wank. He has over a century of experience providing the most elite combat training in the galaxy, and is more skilled than Meltch Krakko. Sidious himself notes that Orsis is a very exclusive school and that Trezza "is as tough as they come".
"This is a momentous occasion," Sidious said solemnly as he dragged his finger around the rim of his goblet. "Because my presence is increasingly required on other worlds, I have arranged for you to attend the Academy on the planet Orsis. It is an institution for training paramilitaries for planetary governments. They also train intelligence agents, mercenaries, and assassins, as well as supplying professional combatants for the gladiatorial arenas. It's a very exclusive school. To be an Orsis cadet is considered quite an honor." Maul was astonished. The prospect of leaving Mustafar and attending a school with other students was almost overwhelming. "The director of the Academy," Sidious continued, "is a Falleen named Trezza. He's a bit short and almost two hundred years old, but do not let that fool you. He is as tough as they come, and mind tricks will not work on him. But there are a few minor challenges. Trezza does not know my name and he never will. And to protect my identity, I shall wear a disguise. Understood?"
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
"Of course not," Trezza said. "I mean only that he will receive the very best education in the arts of combat."
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
The Falleen had been silent during the return trip from the high valley, releasing pheromones meant to pacify Maul, even though he was largely immune to their effects. Nearing two hundred standard years, Trezza had spent half his life training mercenaries and paramilitaries for planetary governments throughout the Republic—not to mention supplying professional combatants for the Petranaki Arena on Geonosis and the Cauldron on Rattatak, and forging assassins and intelligence agents for royal houses and criminal cartels alike. An even more skilled fighter than Meltch, he was also the closest Maul had to a protector—in the ordinary world.
―Restraint
It was at Plagueis' discretion that Maul be trained at Orsis, which he considers an elite training facility, and he considers Trezza to be a combat specialist. Interestingly, he considers Orsis the next logical step only if Maul's Force abilities manifested as an infant. It was only after Maul had destroyed Orsis that he was put to work against any of the Sith's salient enemies.
"Leave the infant on Mustafar in the care of the droids," Plagueis added at last, "but begin to train him. Inure him to pain, Lord Sidious, so that he will be able to serve us fully. Should his Force talents fail to mature, eliminate him. But if he measures up, relocate him at your discretion to Orsis. There you will find an elite training center operated by a Falleen combat specialist named Trezza. He and I have had dealings. Trezza will raise the Zabrak to be fierce but steadfast in his loyalty. You, however, will supervise his training in the dark side. Do not speak of the Sith or our plans until he has proven himself. And do not deploy him against any of our salient enemies until I have had a chance to evaluate him."
―Darth Plagueis
I'll throw in some physical feats and then that's more or less all of the cool stuff Maul has by this point.
Maul, at roughly the age of thirteen, travels up a six meter cliff, injures and disarms two opponents in ten seconds. Kilindi Matako, the second best student at the Orsis Academy, required almost a minute to scale the same cliff. This is without using Force Speed.
The trajectory of the blaster bolts indicated the shots came from the top of the cliff, about six meters above Kilindi's position. She glanced back to where she'd left Maul, but he had already vanished. She waited.
Barely ten seconds later, Kilindi heard a horrific scream from atop the cliff. A blaster fired and the screaming stopped, a third voice called out. "Mission accomplished. All clear.' The third voice was Maul's.
Kilindi moved around the tree and walked into the open, heading for the base of the cliff. It look her almost a full minute to scale the wall of rock.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
At the age of fifteen, Maul is capable of effortlessly dodging blaster bolts fired by two Orsis Academy Cadets and the renowned Mandalorian and Instructor, Meltch Krakko, although he allows himself to be hit occasionally in order to mask his Force powers.
Running fast along the volcanic mountain slope on Orsis, Maul gnashed his teeth as another low-energy blaster bolt tore through the thin fabric of his utility suit and slammed into his back. He ignored the pain and kept running.
His pursuers were Meltch Krakko and the two Rodian cadets, Hubnutz and Fretch, and the goal of their exercise was to capture Maul. Krakko and the Rodians were wearing mimetic suits, energy-powered cloaks that allowed tor almost perfect camouflage in any environment. Since Krakko’s return to Orsis Academy two years ago, he had not only taken a special interest in training the Rodians in tracking and sharpshooting, but also in tormenting the fifteen-year-old Zabrak.
[...]
Maul approached the rim of the mountain's valley, where glacial water and wind had carved a maze of tall, rocky formations. He darted into the labyrinth, never pausing to catch his breath. More blaster bolts zinged past his body. If his pursuers' blasters had been set to kill, he would have been dead already, a fact that infuriated him. But because Sidious and Trezza had forbidden him from revealing his Force powers to Orsis faculty and cadets, he was obliged to let his pursuers shoot him occasionally. If he'd dodged every blaster bolt, they would have had ample reason to suspect he was a Force user.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
Maul is able to Force Leap out of a chasm and over the heads of Meltch Krakko and two Orsis Academy cadets and open fire on them before they can draw their weapons.
Maul was done with restraining his powers, and pretending to be something that he wasn't. Summoning the Force, he launched himself from the overhang and sailed up and out of the chasm. He somersaulted and twisted in midair, flipping his body over the three camouflaged hunters so that he landed on his feet, facing their backs. Startled, Krakko and the Rodians turned fast. Maul had already drawn his blaster and opened final them at point-blank range.
Krakko grunted and the Rodians cried out in pain as the blaster bolts hit them.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
At the age of fifteen, Maul runs through a hail of blaster bolts without being hit, without drawing on the Force in any obvious way to do so.
Recalling the space station's layout from previous visits, he visualized the shortest route to a neighboring bay where he hoped to find another drop ship. He was still working with his rough plan to return to Orsis before anyone discovered he was missing. Although he would have accomplished this goal more easily if he used the Force, he did not want to disappoint his Master again. He was about to make a break for the nearest hatchway when he heard Talzin call out "Don’t leave us, Maul!"
Talzin was on her feet, supported by one of the Nightsisters while the other was covering them. Blaster bolts whizzed past them. Talzin cried, "Maul!"
Maul didn't know what to do. Would Sidious expect him to show sympathy? Was Talzin even one of Sidious's agents? Either way, how would he better serve the dark side of the Force? By helping the Nightsisters, or leaving them to die?
Maul cursed through his grilled teeth. He honked the energy bow over his right shoulder, then ran through a hail of blaster bolts to reach Talzin. He heaved her up from the deck, flung her over his left shoulder and raced for the entrance of a cylindrical corridor that led to the safety of an adjacent bay.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
At the age of fifteen, Maul dodges hails of blaster bolts from over a dozen shooters without drawing on the Force in any obvious way, only sustaining one grazing wound to his arm from a ricocheted bolt.
Short sword in hand and evading bolts from Weequay and Siniteen blasters, Maul sprinted for the control room bulkhead.
―Restraint
Talzin grabbed an energy sword from one of the Nightsisters and handed it lo Maul. Taking the sword, he leaped away from the cargo container, hit the deck, and then sprinted for the control room's bulkhead.
The soldiers turned their weapons and fired at Maul. Gripping the energy sword with both hands, he sprang from the deck, launching himself up toward the control num. He plunged the sword through the control room's window, creating a vertical hole, then flipped his body lo kick the window and shatter it. As he landed inside the control room, the soldiers fired more blaster bolts after him, and the bolts ricocheted off the room's walls. One stray bolt grazed the side of Maul's upper right arm, drawing blood.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
At the age of fifteen, Maul bruises the bodies and breaks the bones of numerous highly skilled mercenaries.
Leaving the swordplay to the masked Dathomiri, Maul tore into the Vollick’s rear guard with fists and feet, bruising bodies and breaking bones as he fought his way to the warlord himself.
―Restraint
- The LostLevel Five
Re: 17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 17th 2019, 9:41 am
As a sidenote, if there actually is any interest in these lower-level battles, Maul has quite a lot of cool feats prior to being made a Sith Lord.
Edit: I'm just dumping everything in the above post now.
Some final notes:
Maul has the barracks feat prior to the Gora and his slaughtering of the Orsis Academy, both of which gave him something of a power up.
Maul was already sparring with Sidious and being trained in the dark side, and had been doing so for years, alongside his training at Orsis.
Maul would spend the next two years carrying out missions that allowed Sidious to gain political and financial power, repeatedly proving his capabilities. Although he'd gradually pull away from his 15 y/o power level which we're evaluating in this thread I still think it's worth mentioning.
Edit: I'm just dumping everything in the above post now.
Some final notes:
Maul has the barracks feat prior to the Gora and his slaughtering of the Orsis Academy, both of which gave him something of a power up.
Maul was already sparring with Sidious and being trained in the dark side, and had been doing so for years, alongside his training at Orsis.
Staring out the window, Sidious said at last, "You did well, Maul. It pleases me that you showed restraint and betrayed none of your deep training in the dark side of the Force."
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
"Trezza will raise the Zabrak to be fierce but steadfast in his loyalty. You, however, will supervise his training in the dark side. Do not speak of the Sith or our plans until he has proven himself. And do not deploy him against any of our salient enemies until I have had a chance to evaluate him."
―Darth Plagueis
"No," Sidious said. "You only think you do." From the folds of his dark robe, he produced two lightsabers. He tossed one to Maul, then ignited the weapon that remained in his own hand.
Maul ignited his lightsaber. From the look in his Master's eyes, he guessed that the burns he was about to sustain would be much more painful than the ones he'd received from Meltch Krakko's blaster.
He guessed right.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
Maul had fought his Master many times, starting when he was little more than a child and continuing through his apprenticeship. His body bore innumerable scars from those duels—lessons in the peril of being too slow or two quick, too weak or too distracted. During Maul’s apprenticeship he had always known that Sidious had been willing to kill him. The Sith had not survived their centuries of exile by being sentimental, and a student who couldn’t stand against his Master in a mere training exercise was worse than useless—he was a waste of valuable resources better used elsewhere. But Maul had never faced his Master when he was actually trying to kill him.
―Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy
Maul would spend the next two years carrying out missions that allowed Sidious to gain political and financial power, repeatedly proving his capabilities. Although he'd gradually pull away from his 15 y/o power level which we're evaluating in this thread I still think it's worth mentioning.
Maul moved with Sidious to Coruscant, where Sidious had long kept a secret lair in a skyscraper in an industrial area. Maul spent the next two years carrying out a series of secret missions for his Master. The missions were conceived to help Sidious gain power without others ever knowing of his existence. By the end of those two years, Maul had repeatedly proven that he was as strong as he was fast, and that he would never break. He also sensed that his control of the darkness that fueled the Force was close to perfect.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul
- GuestGuest
Re: 17 Year old Kenobi vs 15 Year old Maul
August 17th 2019, 11:36 am
Yeah, Maul definitely wins.
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