What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?

Look at these mice throwing shade at Vader lol

BaratoBhajji wrote:Look at these mice throwing shade at Vader lol

He's got a badass suit, I'll give him that at least.

And is rated as one of the best and well developed villains in movie history, but whatever. I guess a badass suit is all that matters

-Anakin as of ROTS is Yoda’s and Palpatine’s equal.
-Yoda>Windu by a fair, although not overwhelming, margin while Windu>Dooku
-Luke in his prime is far more power than any other mortal force user, with a few exceptions (Kyp Durron, DE Palpatine and Nyax)
-NJO characters are incredibly underrated.

- Valkorion is a weakling
- KF Anakin is overrated af
- Kit Fisto's smile isn't cute
- George Lucas is a hack.

1.That people's beliefs on SW are weird.
2.That people's beliefs on SW are wrong.
3.That Curry is always right.

I don't have any concrete beliefs as I try to stay open-minded about the SAGA as a whole. Nobody wants to debate if there is not chance of convincing the other side.

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:1.Jacen is more powerful than any of Sheev's apprentices.

2.Luke is the most powerful non entity character in the mythos.

3.Pre-ROTS Windu is sub Dooku.

4.Vader is vastly beneath the PT titans and closer to Maul/Kenobi than Dooku.

5.TOR scaling is broken.

6.Valkorion is vastly above Yoda/ROTS Sids/KF Vader but a fair bit beneath DE Sids and roughly comparable to TFU Sids.

7.NJO characters are generally underrated barring a few exceptions.

Probably missing a few things but that's all that comes to me immediately.

 
I agree with most. Jacen is also underrated.

1. While I can't argue with the fact that TCW 2008 (and associated content) is infact part of the legends continuity, nor the fact that it has higher canonity, I don't believe one can compare the versions of characters part of TCW with the ones in other part of legends canon. Saying that Maul > Grievous (although it could certainly be argued) purely because of their fight in SoD, or saying that Savage is a top-tier beast due to fighting Anakin and Kenobi at once, is utter nonsense. I don't mind someone using the feats from TCW 2008 (andassociated content), but I do disagree with scaling based on fights with characters vastly different from their original versions. I hardly consider Maul a top-tier duelist simply because he fought a version of Aayla and Mace clearly weaker than their legends versions. It honestly just feels cheap and lazy to pretend otherwise. 

2. I don't mind someone using quotes and statements. What I dislike is taking it as absolute undeniable fact, even when obviously contradicted or up for intepration. It also takes away from proper debating when used incorrectly. One example that quickly springs to mind is Malak > Exar Kun. That comes from a single quote plainly stating Malak is twice as powerful as Kun. One can just drop that statement and debate over. Its lazy. But I won't just ignore statements entirely. When I talked with @DarthAnt66 about it, he didn't just rely on a single statement. He properly debated why Malak was superior to kun through use of multiple kinds of debating , and while I still do not agree with the notion  (despite the fact I don't really like Kun), at least he had arguments beyond just dumping a single statement and calling it a day. 

Just to clarify, while I can't entirely ignore lazy or cheap debating, its mostly just a preference that one should actually put effort into a debating to make it worth the time reading it. 

3. TotJ characters are heavily underrated. With the exception of Exar Kun who's rated well. 

4. Non-forceusers are alot more capable in combat than most think, especially the likes of Boba Fett and General Grievous, the former which can fight high-tier forceusers, and the latter being one of the greatest duelists of the prequel era, on par with Kenobi, Anakin and Mace. 

5. Canon characters are generally weaker than legends ones, but a few of them do pretty well and are easily comparable to legends characters.

EDIT: 

6. I know we're not supposed to do more than 5 but it needs to be said: I heavily dislike scaling based on Rule of 2. Saying Darth Gean >>>> Bane simply because they're a later sith makes no sense.

@Cheth welcome to the forum

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:@Cheth welcome to the forum

Thank you mate

Also I have to correct a small mistake in my post: I debated Ant on Exiles (specifically Karness Muur) vs Malak, not Kun vs Malak

Cheth wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:@Cheth welcome to the forum

Thank you mate

Also I have to correct a small mistake in my post: I debated Ant on Exiles (specifically Karness Muur) vs Malak, not Kun vs Malak

No problem

I would add that Darish Vol is more powerful than anyone within prequel era, including Yoda.

Meta:
- there is no intrinsic "truth" to Star Wars debating given the lack of the existence of an underlying reality
- should try to adhere to occam's razor, preference on coherent narrative while minimizing discarding of sources
- contradictory sources should be rationalized if possible, but sometimes rationalization is too convoluted and must be thrown out
- hyper-literal interpretations of back-of-cereal-box quotes are stupid
- feats must be contextualized given medium, author, narrative, etc.

Specific (of course none of these are dogmatic, just frequent positions):
- Darth Sidious is the most powerful non-Anchorite/etc. dark sider up until his time
- Luke Skywalker is the most powerful non-Anchorite/etc. Force user in galactic history
- Plagueis > Vitiate
- Sidious oneshots Dooku
- Kyp Durron is on paper Mace Windu+ tier
- UnuThul is on paper Yoda+ tier
- Bane dies
^ nah but Banite scaling is potent
- Ziost was a ritual

- Luke Skywalker is the most powerful mortal force user
- Anakin Skywalker could've become >>> Abeloth at his full potential
- SoR Revan is more powerful than RoTS Sidiou
- KFV is on par with Sidious
- Kyp Durron is extremely underrated, being on par with Mace Windu
- Darth Caedus is extremely underrated, being on par with Plagueis 
- Vader is ~ Darth Tyrannus
- Malak is extremely underrated, being on par with JA Kun