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DarthAnt66Moderator
What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 20th 2019, 11:11 pm
What are your core lines of thinking that you have invested the most into and defined your debating careers? Give two to five.
For example, mine are probably:
(1) Revan is more powerful than Darth Vader.
(2) Darth Malak is more powerful than Exar Kun.
(3) Anakin Skywalker is on par with Yoda.
(4) Anakin Skywaker is more powerful than Darth Vader.
(5) Starkiller is more powerful than Darth Vader.
For example, mine are probably:
(1) Revan is more powerful than Darth Vader.
(2) Darth Malak is more powerful than Exar Kun.
(3) Anakin Skywalker is on par with Yoda.
(4) Anakin Skywaker is more powerful than Darth Vader.
(5) Starkiller is more powerful than Darth Vader.
JakeLevel One
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 20th 2019, 11:14 pm
Dooku is closer to Yoda than to Maul.
Ventress is Obi-Wan’s superior.
Exar Kun is still the GOAT.
Ventress is Obi-Wan’s superior.
Exar Kun is still the GOAT.
Reynard (Ethanion)
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 20th 2019, 11:15 pm
Mine are Sheev’s apprentices (maybe not Vader) are all closer in power to Sheev that to Bane, by a lot.
That feats are absolutely worthless, unless they are force user versus force user based.
That feats cannot retcon quotes if there is a plausible debunk.
And that Noa Briqualon is god.
That feats are absolutely worthless, unless they are force user versus force user based.
That feats cannot retcon quotes if there is a plausible debunk.
And that Noa Briqualon is god.
PraxisModerator | Champion of the Light
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 20th 2019, 11:27 pm
Noa Briqualon > Abeloth
KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 20th 2019, 11:29 pm
I'm rather new to debating but I'll put down some of my beliefs that I anticipate will be a focus of mine.
1. Knightfall Vader>RotS Sidious/Yoda
2. Revan is Yoda Tier
3. Darth Vader~Obi Wan
1. Knightfall Vader>RotS Sidious/Yoda
2. Revan is Yoda Tier
3. Darth Vader~Obi Wan
- DarthAnt66Moderator
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 20th 2019, 11:30 pm
KingofBlades wrote:I'm rather new to debating but I'll put down some of my beliefs that I anticipate will be a focus of mine.
1. Knightfall Vader>RotS Sidious/Yoda
2. Revan is Yoda Tier
3. Darth Vader~Obi Wan
Blade_of_DorinLevel One
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 20th 2019, 11:39 pm
My viewpoints on things are constantly fluctuating nowadays so I’m not even really sure
O-Siri
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 12:38 am
Yoda wasn't overpowered at the end or combatively overmatched by Sidious.
Quotes from sources pertaining to fights, other than novels and film production notes should be disregarded as they are often contradictory depending on the author, are simplified summaries that often exclude the context, out-of-date, and often just plain wrong.
Force barriers that can be mentally activated from the start of the duel are practically non-existent in the PT. It's clear that you have to be in a guard position to activate a barrier and if you are in the middle of an attacking sequence you are vunerable to counterattck.
Quotes from sources pertaining to fights, other than novels and film production notes should be disregarded as they are often contradictory depending on the author, are simplified summaries that often exclude the context, out-of-date, and often just plain wrong.
Force barriers that can be mentally activated from the start of the duel are practically non-existent in the PT. It's clear that you have to be in a guard position to activate a barrier and if you are in the middle of an attacking sequence you are vunerable to counterattck.
CuckedCurryLevel Four
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 2:22 am
B team
Master AzrongerModerator
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 4:27 am
Sheev being the most powerful dark sider has been the first position I ever argued for over 5 years ago and have maintained that stance and continued to make arguments for it ever since.
GuestGuest
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 6:10 am
Idk. I guess:
1. Anakin is Yoda's superior.
2. Starkiller is far stronger than Darth Vader.
3. Dooku is (reasonably) close to Yoda.
1. Anakin is Yoda's superior.
2. Starkiller is far stronger than Darth Vader.
3. Dooku is (reasonably) close to Yoda.
Trayus Marauder
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 6:14 am
Character specific:
1. Maul being close to RotJ Vader and Dooku (though not necessarily superior as a whole)
2. Sidious being the most powerful mortal dark side practitioner
To be honest, I've covered so many at different points in time. Typically, I support characters who are lowballed within a certain group. I also work to break down characters who are wanked.
Technical stuff/argument construction:
3. Using Chee/Lucas as central pieces of evidence when constructing arguments for relevant characters/debates
4. Making sure to examine accolades closely for potential flaws. For example, accolades/statements provided in universe
My most important rule:
5. Being open to shifting any of my positions provided that an excellent argument is provided which I cannot counter. A good example of this is when Ant and others changed my mind and got me to put RotS Anakin>RotJ Vader
1. Maul being close to RotJ Vader and Dooku (though not necessarily superior as a whole)
2. Sidious being the most powerful mortal dark side practitioner
To be honest, I've covered so many at different points in time. Typically, I support characters who are lowballed within a certain group. I also work to break down characters who are wanked.
Technical stuff/argument construction:
3. Using Chee/Lucas as central pieces of evidence when constructing arguments for relevant characters/debates
4. Making sure to examine accolades closely for potential flaws. For example, accolades/statements provided in universe
My most important rule:
5. Being open to shifting any of my positions provided that an excellent argument is provided which I cannot counter. A good example of this is when Ant and others changed my mind and got me to put RotS Anakin>RotJ Vader
- LOTL
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 7:22 am
Obi Wan>Dooku
Yoda>>>Dooku
Starkiller is insanely powerful but a shit character
The ROTS tier 8's are close to the later Banite Sith than Bane
Caedus and Vader are underrated
KOTOR Revan is underrated
Yoda>>>Dooku
Starkiller is insanely powerful but a shit character
The ROTS tier 8's are close to the later Banite Sith than Bane
Caedus and Vader are underrated
KOTOR Revan is underrated
NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 7:54 am
1.Jacen is more powerful than any of Sheev's apprentices.
2.Luke is the most powerful non entity character in the mythos.
3.Pre-ROTS Windu is sub Dooku.
4.Vader is vastly beneath the PT titans and closer to Maul/Kenobi than Dooku.
5.TOR scaling is broken.
6.Valkorion is vastly above Yoda/ROTS Sids/KF Vader but a fair bit beneath DE Sids and roughly comparable to TFU Sids.
7.NJO characters are generally underrated barring a few exceptions.
Probably missing a few things but that's all that comes to me immediately.
2.Luke is the most powerful non entity character in the mythos.
3.Pre-ROTS Windu is sub Dooku.
4.Vader is vastly beneath the PT titans and closer to Maul/Kenobi than Dooku.
5.TOR scaling is broken.
6.Valkorion is vastly above Yoda/ROTS Sids/KF Vader but a fair bit beneath DE Sids and roughly comparable to TFU Sids.
7.NJO characters are generally underrated barring a few exceptions.
Probably missing a few things but that's all that comes to me immediately.
- GuestGuest
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 7:57 am
Starkiller is insanely powerful but a shit character
Bruh...
- LOTL
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 8:26 am
DC77 wrote:1.Jacen is more powerful than any of Sheev's apprentices.
2.Luke is the most powerful non entity character in the mythos.
5.TOR scaling is broken.
Agreed on that. The rest are false, no question
- CuckedCurryLevel Four
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 9:05 am
LOTL wrote:Obi Wan>Dooku
Yoda>>>Dooku
Starkiller is a shit character
PeraltaEagle45
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 10:07 am
>Maul is comparable to Dooku
>prime Krayt is only surpassed by DE Sidious, GM Luke, and Valkorion
>the SWTOR protags vary wildly in power and skill
>Revan is comparable to or above Yoda
>Knightfall Vader is >>>>> RotJ Vader
>prime Krayt is only surpassed by DE Sidious, GM Luke, and Valkorion
>the SWTOR protags vary wildly in power and skill
>Revan is comparable to or above Yoda
>Knightfall Vader is >>>>> RotJ Vader
- Quorian DebatistLevel One
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 1:02 pm
Not really foundational, just some issues in general I have with Star Wars and what I believe in.
Quotes binding character placements long before they're even created is retarded. Same with powers.
Anakin is an absolute mess of quotes.
Things are taken far too literally far too often in the case of quotes.
Unless someone is addressed specifically, it's unlikely things bind them to a quote - even less so if they are a complete nobody. Expecting a novel writer for example to account for every character in canon is a foolhardy notion.
Modern Bioware doesn't know how up the ante without going overboard, nor do they care of the implications of what they write.
Darkstaff
I don't think anyone who has written or used lightspeed in regards to Star Wars duels has any understanding of just how fast that is. Made even more questionable by non-force sensitives fighting these characters in any capacity.
My favorite characters don't have to win every thread, nor even do good.
Quotes binding character placements long before they're even created is retarded. Same with powers.
Anakin is an absolute mess of quotes.
Things are taken far too literally far too often in the case of quotes.
Unless someone is addressed specifically, it's unlikely things bind them to a quote - even less so if they are a complete nobody. Expecting a novel writer for example to account for every character in canon is a foolhardy notion.
Modern Bioware doesn't know how up the ante without going overboard, nor do they care of the implications of what they write.
Darkstaff
I don't think anyone who has written or used lightspeed in regards to Star Wars duels has any understanding of just how fast that is. Made even more questionable by non-force sensitives fighting these characters in any capacity.
My favorite characters don't have to win every thread, nor even do good.
- O-Siri
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 21st 2019, 1:08 pm
Quorian Debatist wrote:Not really foundational, just some issues in general I have with Star Wars and what I believe in.
Quotes binding character placements long before they're even created is retarded. Same with powers.
Anakin is an absolute mess of quotes.
Things are taken far too literally far too often in the case of quotes.
Unless someone is addressed specifically, it's unlikely things bind them to a quote - even less so if they are a complete nobody. Expecting a novel writer for example to account for every character in canon is a foolhardy notion.
Modern Bioware doesn't know how up the ante without going overboard, nor do they care of the implications of what they write.
Darkstaff
I don't think anyone who has written or used lightspeed in regards to Star Wars duels has any understanding of just how fast that is. Made even more questionable by non-force sensitives fighting these characters in any capacity.
My favorite characters don't have to win every thread, nor even do good.
AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 24th 2019, 6:47 am
Contradictory power creep has caused nigh irrepairable damage to the standings of many characters.
Era superiority quotes are fundamentally flawed.
Most powerful quotes can't be taken seriously.
People believe in an imaginary Star Wars fighting system where despite 'z' character being incapable of stomping 'x' character they still claim that said character can stomp the vastly superior 'y' character.
Banite scaling quotes have been constantly interpreted in a way so that it 'retcons' the nigh-contradictory depictions of actual power gaps between the Banite Sith that we see in the lore.
Era superiority quotes are fundamentally flawed.
Most powerful quotes can't be taken seriously.
People believe in an imaginary Star Wars fighting system where despite 'z' character being incapable of stomping 'x' character they still claim that said character can stomp the vastly superior 'y' character.
Banite scaling quotes have been constantly interpreted in a way so that it 'retcons' the nigh-contradictory depictions of actual power gaps between the Banite Sith that we see in the lore.
Gaunter O'Dimm
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 26th 2019, 4:33 am
1. Vader being anywhere near Sidious powerwise is a joke.
2. The level of lowballing of NJO characters is preposterous.
3. The Rule of Two scaling is vague and, more often than not, blown out of proportion. All that it tells us is that Tenebrous and his successors are better than Bane and Zannah... which is not much of an accomplishment.
4. RotJ Anakin's power level is a clusterfuck.
5. The blurp from Darth Plagueis does not apply to Valkorion.
2. The level of lowballing of NJO characters is preposterous.
3. The Rule of Two scaling is vague and, more often than not, blown out of proportion. All that it tells us is that Tenebrous and his successors are better than Bane and Zannah... which is not much of an accomplishment.
4. RotJ Anakin's power level is a clusterfuck.
5. The blurp from Darth Plagueis does not apply to Valkorion.
The Witness
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 26th 2019, 11:44 am
Vader>Dooku
Dooku>=SOD Maul
Dooku isn't anywhere close to Yoda/Sidious
Bane is a lot more powerful than most people think
Vader is severely underrated
There is a significant growth in power from IH Kenobi to MF Kenobi. And MF Kenobi can give Dooku a good fight and may win
And lastly. Kenobi>Dooku in sabers
Dooku>=SOD Maul
Dooku isn't anywhere close to Yoda/Sidious
Bane is a lot more powerful than most people think
Vader is severely underrated
There is a significant growth in power from IH Kenobi to MF Kenobi. And MF Kenobi can give Dooku a good fight and may win
And lastly. Kenobi>Dooku in sabers
- The Witness
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 26th 2019, 12:06 pm
Why not Vader? Damn I think a Vader respect thread is due. I might take up that mantle if no one else will.Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:Mine are Sheev’s apprentices (maybe not Vader) are all closer in power to Sheev that to Bane, by a lot.
That feats are absolutely worthless, unless they are force user versus force user based.
That feats cannot retcon quotes if there is a plausible debunk.
And that Noa Briqualon is god.
- Master AzrongerModerator
Re: What are your foundational Star Wars beliefs?
July 26th 2019, 1:17 pm
Sam wrote:Why not Vader? Damn I think a Vader respect thread is due. I might take up that mantle if no one else will.Reynard (Ethanion) wrote:Mine are Sheev’s apprentices (maybe not Vader) are all closer in power to Sheev that to Bane, by a lot.
That feats are absolutely worthless, unless they are force user versus force user based.
That feats cannot retcon quotes if there is a plausible debunk.
And that Noa Briqualon is god.
If you do, make it comprehensive
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