The Wizards and their Brutes face off

Vaelias wrote:idk ask the author, not my fault he is depicted in his body still

Ragnos seemed quite "human" when deeming Kun the Dark Lord of the Sith. Seemed that it might have just been the art style of the series. Kun could very possibly be a ghost in his appearance right after the WoL.

Vaelias wrote:idk ask the author, not my fault he is depicted in his body still

Ragnos seemed quite "alive" when deeming Kun the Dark Lord of the Sith. Seemed that it might have just been the art style of the series and Ulic couldn't find Kun at all in the temple.

Kun could very possibly be a ghost in his appearance right after the WoL.

BreakofDawn wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

The Slick Obi wrote:Ok, to bring the debate back to the fight, Kun is at the point BEFORE the ritual. How powerful he was directly after the ritual is completely unknown and the next time you see him is as a spirit who atrophied after several thousand years of doing diddly squat.

It is unknown how powerful exactly he is, but he is definitely up there with Valkorion and Sidious given that those 3 are the only people to show the ability to exist as a spirit without an Anchor and roam the cosmos

Marr says "hello".

Marr was an exception he transcended the physical plain similar to Jedi, he didn't become dark side energy and resist the pull of Chaos

Vaelias wrote:

KingKopecz wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

The Slick Obi wrote:Ok, to bring the debate back to the fight, Kun is at the point BEFORE the ritual. How powerful he was directly after the ritual is completely unknown and the next time you see him is as a spirit who atrophied after several thousand years of doing diddly squat.

It is unknown how powerful exactly he is, but he is definitely up there with Valkorion and Sidious given that those 3 are the only people to show the ability to exist as a spirit without an Anchor and roam the cosmos

Even Qordis did that

no he didn't he was anchored to the thought bomb

He travelled to Dxun though

Vaelias wrote:Marr was an exception he transcended the physical plain similar to Jedi, he didn't become dark side energy and resist the pull of Chaos

Nah, Marr says he's resisting the pull of the void and that it taxes him. The Void is another name for Chaos.

Revan is with the likes of Windu at best, TPM Sidious is is about 30 years of massive daily growth below ROTJ Sidious and Vader is below TPM Maul who is below Pre Boost TPM Sidious, Revan is the strongest one on that team, and is still below ROTS Sidious who would get ragdolled by ROTJ Sidious whom post ritual Kun is on a level with, so yes post ritual Kun can ragdoll he is simply on another level

Did you just say Kun is on ROTJ Sidious level

VictreebelVictr wrote:

Vaelias wrote:idk ask the author, not my fault he is depicted in his body still

Ragnos seemed quite "alive" when deeming Kun the Dark Lord of the Sith. Seemed that it might have just been the art style of the series and Ulic couldn't find Kun at all in the temple.

Kun could very possibly be a ghost in his appearance right after the WoL.

True True, very possible

iamthatguy wrote:

Revan is with the likes of Windu at best, TPM Sidious is is about 30 years of massive daily growth below ROTJ Sidious and Vader is below TPM Maul who is below Pre Boost TPM Sidious, Revan is the strongest one on that team, and is still below ROTS Sidious who would get ragdolled by ROTJ Sidious whom post ritual Kun is on a level with, so yes post ritual Kun can ragdoll he is simply on another level

Did you just say Kun is on ROTJ Sidious level

Post Ritual Kun is yes, for the reason I previously outlined, Kun, Tenebrae and Sidious are boundless and can exist as dark side energy without an anchor and roam the cosmos

But you have RotJ Sidious above FotJ Luke. How does that make sense?

Praxis wrote:

Vaelias wrote:Marr was an exception he transcended the physical plain similar to Jedi, he didn't become dark side energy and resist the pull of Chaos

Nah, Marr says he's resisting the pull of the void and that it taxes him. The Void is another name for Chaos.

Interesting, he is an exception though in the way he becomes a force ghost, its different to how Tenebrae, Kun and Sheev do it, ill try find the scans

KingKopecz wrote:But you have RotJ Sidious above FotJ Luke. How does that make sense?

How does what make sense ?

Vaelias wrote:

KingKopecz wrote:But you have RotJ Sidious above FotJ Luke. How does that make sense?

How does what make sense ?

You have RotJ Sidious = post-ritual Kun > FotJ Luke?

Post Ritual Kun is yes, for the reason I previously outlined, Kun, Tenebrae and Sidious are boundless and can exist as dark side energy without an anchor and roam the cosmos

You didn't give any reasons.

KingKopecz wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

KingKopecz wrote:But you have RotJ Sidious above FotJ Luke. How does that make sense?

How does what make sense ?

You have RotJ Sidious = post-ritual Kun > FotJ Luke?

Kun is around ROTJ Sheev, i hold Kun slightly lower with Valkorion but around that level yes

iamthatguy wrote:

Post Ritual Kun is yes, for the reason I previously outlined, Kun, Tenebrae and Sidious are boundless and can exist as dark side energy without an anchor and roam the cosmos

You didn't give any reasons.

I did

Vaelias wrote:up there with Valkorion and Sidious given that those 3 are the only people to show the ability to exist as a spirit without an Anchor and roam the cosmos

those 3 are the big 3 dark siders that are boundless and not defined by their physical forms, only 3 people to ever do this

Vaelias wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

The Slick Obi wrote:Ok, to bring the debate back to the fight, Kun is at the point BEFORE the ritual. How powerful he was directly after the ritual is completely unknown and the next time you see him is as a spirit who atrophied after several thousand years of doing diddly squat.

It is unknown how powerful exactly he is, but he is definitely up there with Valkorion and Sidious given that those 3 are the only people to show the ability to exist as a spirit without an Anchor and roam the cosmos

Marr says "hello".

Marr was an exception he transcended the physical plain similar to Jedi, he didn't become dark side energy and resist the pull of Chaos

I fail to see your point. Marr might have greater willpower than most Sith, but that doesn't make him some paragon of power. He didn't renounce the Dark Side, either. He simply acknowledged the Light Side in a rather Revan-esque way. I don't see how it would be a marker of power.

It should also be noted that he existed as a spirit prior to even acknowledging the light side. It wasn't until his conversations with Satele--which took place after his death--did he acknowledge the other side of the Force.

Vaelias wrote:up there with Valkorion and Sidious given that those 3 are the only people to show the ability to exist as a spirit without an Anchor and roam the cosmos

those 3 are the big 3 dark siders that are boundless and not defined by their physical forms, only 3 people to ever do this  

That's not really a good reason at all.

I mean you'd be hardpressed to somehow make the argument Kun is above someone like Dooku, let alone ROTJ Sidious.

The Slick Obi wrote:Ok, to bring the debate back to the fight, Kun is at the point BEFORE the ritual. How powerful he was directly after the ritual is completely unknown and the next time you see him is as a spirit who atrophied after several thousand years of doing diddly squat.

In that case, Exar Kun still wins by virtue of his scaling from Naga Sadow who was far more powerful than pre-imbalance 47BBY Darth Plagueis, prior to Sadow growing in power naturally over the course of six entire centuries. Which puts him well beyond TPM Sidious, the biggest threat to Kun here, at the very least.

On a side note, we do actually know how powerful Kun became via the ritual given he went from 'not standing a chance' against and then proceeding to give a 'titanic battle' against the combined might of tens of thousands of members of the Jedi Order. And also, ROTJ/DE Sheev parity as a spirit via like 8 different lines of thought.

BreakofDawn wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

The Slick Obi wrote:Ok, to bring the debate back to the fight, Kun is at the point BEFORE the ritual. How powerful he was directly after the ritual is completely unknown and the next time you see him is as a spirit who atrophied after several thousand years of doing diddly squat.

It is unknown how powerful exactly he is, but he is definitely up there with Valkorion and Sidious given that those 3 are the only people to show the ability to exist as a spirit without an Anchor and roam the cosmos

Marr says "hello".

Marr was an exception he transcended the physical plain similar to Jedi, he didn't become dark side energy and resist the pull of Chaos

I fail to see your point. Marr might have greater willpower than most Sith, but that doesn't make him some paragon of power. He didn't renounce the Dark Side, either. He simply acknowledged the Light Side in a rather Revan-esque way. I don't see how it would be a marker of power.

Doesn't mark power but it allowed him to achieve a power that no sith had done in transcending the physical plain similar to a Jedi and resisting Chaos by accepting the light

iamthatguy wrote:

Vaelias wrote:up there with Valkorion and Sidious given that those 3 are the only people to show the ability to exist as a spirit without an Anchor and roam the cosmos

those 3 are the big 3 dark siders that are boundless and not defined by their physical forms, only 3 people to ever do this  

That's not really a good reason at all.

I mean you'd be hardpressed to somehow make the argument Kun is above someone like Dooku, let alone ROTJ Sidious.

That's not really a good reason at all.

that isn't really a good counter argument at all

its a perfectly viable reason, post ritual Kun is a Chaotic Dark side Nexus, only Tenebrae and Sheev achieved this level of power, it was the whole reason why Luke joined Palpatine in the first place after he was in awe of his power being a Dark Nexus and realized the only way to stop him was to join him

Vaelias wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

The Slick Obi wrote:Ok, to bring the debate back to the fight, Kun is at the point BEFORE the ritual. How powerful he was directly after the ritual is completely unknown and the next time you see him is as a spirit who atrophied after several thousand years of doing diddly squat.

It is unknown how powerful exactly he is, but he is definitely up there with Valkorion and Sidious given that those 3 are the only people to show the ability to exist as a spirit without an Anchor and roam the cosmos

Marr says "hello".

Marr was an exception he transcended the physical plain similar to Jedi, he didn't become dark side energy and resist the pull of Chaos

I fail to see your point. Marr might have greater willpower than most Sith, but that doesn't make him some paragon of power. He didn't renounce the Dark Side, either. He simply acknowledged the Light Side in a rather Revan-esque way. I don't see how it would be a marker of power.

Doesn't mark power but it allowed him to achieve a power that no sith had done in transcending the physical plain similar to a Jedi and resisting Chaos by accepting the light

As Praxis pointed out (and which I'd forgotten), he achieved this before acknowledging or accepting the Light. Kun doing this doesn't show his power, let alone that he's comparable to Valk and Sheev.

Marr's quote doesn't even imply what you've all been suggesting. Him travelling to different planets with either a nexus or Satele herself as an anchor, is absolutely not the same thing.

[quote="Vaelias"]

iamthatguy wrote:

Vaelias wrote:up there with Valkorion and Sidious given that those 3 are the only people to show the ability to exist as a spirit without an Anchor and roam the cosmos

those 3 are the big 3 dark siders that are boundless and not defined by their physical forms, only 3 people to ever do this  

That's not really a good reason at all.

I mean you'd be hardpressed to somehow make the argument Kun is above someone like Dooku, let alone ROTJ Sidious.

That's not really a good reason at all.

that isn't really a good counter argument at all

its a perfectly viable reason, post ritual Kun is a Chaotic Dark side Nexus, only Tenebrae and Sheev achieved this level of power, it was the whole reason why Luke joined Palpatine in the first place after he was in awe of his power being a Dark Nexus and realized the only way to stop him was to join him

Yeah but Sheev actually has combat feats that put him at that level, whereas Kun's combat feats are Sub Dooku, and by quotes (which I know you love) sub TPM Maul.

TPM Maul also created a DS nexus on Naboo, so it's not like that makes someone a top tier in SW.