Darth Gravid vs Obi-Wan Kenobi (TCW)

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Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Obi-Wan even at this point was capable of casually performing feats that the Banites were struggling with at the end of their line let alone at the middle.

Kenobi destroys.

Kenobi scales above him

Gravid stomps

I doubt Gravid passes TPM Maul. Kenobi stomps.

Gravid stomps. At least he wasn't insane at one point.

Vengean wrote:Gravid stomps. At least he wasn't insane at one point.

Maul is far more powerful than Gravid, and he can't stomp Obi-Wan.

Why is Maul more powerful than Gravid?

CuckedCurry wrote:Why is Maul more powerful than Gravid?

Banite scaling.

Maul doesn’t get Banite scaling lol

KingKopecz wrote:Maul doesn’t get Banite scaling lol

He's a Banite Sith, and the TPM Flapbook confirms he is stronger than previous Banite Sith.

He never surpassed Sidious and that quote says “the Sith are back and more powerful than ever”. That’d only place him above Bane and Zannah since it only refers to Sith that faced the Jedi.

KingKopecz wrote:He never surpassed Sidious and that quote says “the Sith are back and more powerful than ever”. That’d only place him above Bane and Zannah since it only refers to Sith that faced the Jedi.

He doesn't need to surpass Sidious. The TPM Flapbook is specifically talking about Maul.

"Ever" means in the history of Darth Bane's Sith Order.

That doesn't make sense. Banite scaling is based off of the idea that the apprentice surpasses the master. Maul never surpassed Sidious so there is no reason why he should have it.
As for the flapbook quote it literally says the Sith were believed to be extinct and Maul is proof they're back and more powerful than ever.

Bane and Zannah were the last Sith the Jedi had seen before their "extinction." So the quote can't be used to have Maul above any Banite after Zannah.

@KingKopecz

That doesn't make sense. Banite scaling is based off of the idea that the apprentice surpasses the master. Maul never surpassed Sidious so there is no reason why he should have it.

Correction: That doesn't make sense to you.

As for the flapbook quote it literally says the Sith were believed to be extinct and Maul is proof they're back and more powerful than ever.

Bane and Zannah were the last Sith the Jedi had seen before their "extinction." So the quote can't be used to have Maul above any Banite after Zannah.

Yes, it says that they are "deadlier than ever." That would obviously include previous Banite Sith. Thank you for agreeing with me.

The debate is now over as that was my argument.

Tybalt wrote:Correction: That doesn't make sense to you.

Well then explain why it does make sense.

Tybalt wrote:Yes, it says that they are "deadlier than ever." That would obviously include previous Banite Sith. Thank you for agreeing with me. 

The debate is now over as that was my argument.

That also doesn't make sense. If you agree with me then that wouldn't be your argument because I literally explained why that quote doesn't bind Gravid lmao.

@KingKopecz You conceded that Maul is "more powerful than" prior Banite Sith which is you agreeing to my argument. Please stop arguing now.

What? I never conceded Maul is deadlier than prior Sith. I said he's only deadlier than Band and Zannah. The quote doesn't prove he's dealier than any Banites after that such as Vectivus or Gravid because they were around when the Sith were still believed to be extinct.

KingKopecz wrote:What? I never conceded Maul is deadlier than prior Sith. I said he's only deadlier than Band and Zannah. The quote doesn't prove he's dealier than any Banites after that such as Vectivus or Gravid because they were around when the Sith were still believed to be extinct.

So I take it that Kenobi takes it with fair difficulty.

Obi Wan wins fairly easy.

@Tybalt: For what it's worth, I don't think @KingKopecz conceded to anything here. His point from the onset is that the quote is referring only to pre-Banite Sith, similar (I believe) to your recent argument that the quote is referring only to Banite Sith. When he wrote that the "Sith are stronger than ever," he's writing it with that specific POV, just like you do with yours. Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong, but the debate certainly doesn't seem over. I'm not sure myself on how to take it--I previously never even considered it might be including Banite Sith. 

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Kenobi bashes Gravid's skull in. 

@DarthAnt66 No, he is saying it refers to Bane and Zannah, who are Banite Sith. There's no way to argue that Zannah is a pre-Banite Sith, and if you take it to not mean Banite Sith then do you believe it means every Sith in history?

@Tybalt: I read his argument to mean all Sith prior to their disappearance, which would include Bane and Zannah despite being Banites as they fought Jedi in DB:ROT. Perhaps he can better clarify his meaning, though. 

and if you take it to not mean Banite Sith then do you believe it means every Sith in history?

My thought process was: the Sith exist -> the Sith are believed extinct -> Maul is proof the Sith are back and deadlier than ever. The "back" and "ever" there seem in reference to how they were prior to being "believed extinct." Including the Banites might be a little weird--it would mean the narrator is both emphasizing the limited perspective that the Sith were "believed extinct" and that Maul is "proof" they are "back" while nevertheless also sharing omniscient knowledge to conclude Maul's display is "proof" he's better than all the hidden Sith, too. It's possible, but it seems a bit convoluted. So, I was applying it to all the ancient Sith (as of 1999) but not necessarily the Banites. Note I have Maul above all the Banites besides Palpatine and maybe Plagueis anyway, though, so for me the distinction isn't that relevant.