KF Vader vs SOR Revan

1. sabers
2. Force
3. All out

Who wins?


Also hey everyone this is my first post on this site.

Revan edges

Gonna go with Revan for now

Vader rather easily. Seen nothing from Revan that's on the level of the RotS titans.

@Azronger

Revan deflected Nyriss's lightning. Nyriss's lightning cremated herself, a sith lord at the very least around ventress's level considering she was >>Meetra and scourge collectively. Lightning of such potency that it can incinerate opponents is as far as I'm aware sidious tier. Now obviously sidious>>>>>nyriss but when Nyriss let her energy gather and build up allowing her lightning to be abnormally potent. Normally when force lightning is used its done so without hesitation or build up and examples of this is seen in the same very fight where nyriss blasts meetra with a normal burst of force lightning knocking her off her feet. The fact that nyriss's normal lightning merely knocks the exile off her feet but her charged up burst was capable of incinerating herself who is >>meetra shows a drastic increase in the power of a force user's lightning when charged up. This is seen again in Revan's fight against Vitiate. The emperor fires three separate bursts of lightning at revan. Revan dodges one, grounds one with his lightsaber, and deflects the other through tutaminis. The whole account is described quickly implying it wasn't a significant portion of the battle and seemingly did not even challenge revan to the extent Nyriss's charged burst did. However when Vitiate fires a charged burst that is described as "infinitely more powerful" than the charged lightning Nyriss fired. The result is revan writhing in agony on the ground with his mask melted onto his face. Again a drastic increase in power is shown upon building up energy for a force lightning attack. So the fact that Nyriss fired off a burst of lightning with a potency that is on the same tier as sidious can be explained by the fact that she gathered her energy allowing for the drastic increase in power. Considering revan was still feeling the effects of force supressing drugs when he deflected Nyriss's blast this would be a low end feat for SOR Revan. Such a feat should at least put him in the conversation with upper tier PT characters.

Consider that Nyriss was (1) on a potent DS nexus and (2) had been gathering her strength for a significant point of time.

Those factors while true don't actually detract from the feat for Revan. Yes Nyriss's lightning was abnormally augmented to Sidious tier levels by the nexus on dromund kaas and by her gathering her strength, but the fact remains that the lightning itself was sidious tier. Revan reborn, inferior to his SOR incarnation, managed to deflect said lightning despite being hindered both by the force suppressing drugs he was on and by the darkside nexus on Dromund Kaas.

KingofBlades wrote:@Azronger

Revan  deflected  Nyriss's lightning. Nyriss's lightning cremated herself, a sith lord at the very least around ventress's level considering she was >>Meetra and scourge collectively. Lightning of such potency that it can incinerate opponents is  as far as I'm aware sidious tier. Now obviously sidious>>>>>nyriss but when Nyriss let her energy gather and build up allowing her lightning to be abnormally potent. Normally when force lightning is used its done so without hesitation or build up and examples of this is seen in the same very fight where nyriss blasts meetra with a normal burst of force lightning knocking her off her feet. The fact that nyriss's normal lightning merely knocks the exile off her feet but her charged up burst was capable of incinerating herself who is >>meetra shows a drastic increase in the power of a force user's lightning when charged up. This is seen again in Revan's fight against Vitiate. The emperor fires three separate bursts of lightning at revan. Revan dodges one, grounds one with his lightsaber, and deflects the other through tutaminis. The whole account is described quickly implying it wasn't a significant portion of the battle and seemingly did not even challenge revan to the extent Nyriss's charged burst did. However when Vitiate fires a charged burst that is described as "infinitely more powerful" than the charged lightning Nyriss fired. The result is revan writhing in agony on the ground with his mask melted onto his face. Again a drastic increase in power is shown upon building up energy for a force lightning attack. So the fact that Nyriss fired off a burst of lightning with a potency that is on the same tier as  sidious can be explained by the fact that she gathered her energy allowing for the drastic increase in power. Considering revan was still feeling the effects of force supressing drugs when he deflected Nyriss's blast this would be a low end feat for SOR Revan. Such a feat should at least put him in the conversation with upper tier PT characters.

I'm aware of everything you described, but I honestly have never viewed the feat as that impressive. I think Darth Bane could replicate it. Also, Revan had been administered the antidote to the drugs, so I'm not sure they'd still be affecting him.

Scourge stepped over to a medkit on the wall and yanked it open. He grabbed a hypodermic filled with a green luminescent fluid.

“This will help,” he said, injecting it into Revan’s arm. “But it will take a few minutes.”

@Azronger Correct me if I'm wrong but incinerating opponents via unamped force lightning has only been done by Darth Sidious.

Lmfao at Darth Nyriss >> Meetra.

@LadyKulvax Considering Nyriss was beating Meetra and Scourge simultaneously without much strain kinda gives me that impression.

Welcome to the forum, @KingofBlades.

@DarthAnt66 thanks.

KingofBlades wrote:@LadyKulvax  Considering Nyriss was beating Meetra and Scourge simultaneously without much strain kinda gives me that impression.

That isn't what happened, nor was Meetra anywhere near her full strength.

Scourge got easily one-shotted every time he tried to intervene in the fight. Meetra on the other hand, was stated to be capable of holding her own in a duel, despite being put on the back foot due to dodging Nyriss' lightning and giving up the momentum. Then Meetra was stated to have absorbed the majority of Nyriss' lightning with a mere instinctive Force barrier. Which wouldn't have happened if Nyriss was >> Meetra.

Also, welcome to the forum.

@LadyKulvax "The Jedi was clearly overmatched..." Meetra wasn't holding her own in fact she would've likely died almost immediately were it not for Scourge's intervention: "In the akward position her right flank was exposed, and Nyriss brought her blade in to deliver a crippling cut. At the same time , Scourge lashed out with the Force, catching  Nyriss flush in the center of he chest."  Now lets discuss their barriers. Nyriss was distracted trying to kill Meetra meaning Scourge's force push was unexpected. It is because of the attack being unexpected that the barrier was an  instinctive one. There is nothing  that even implies Meetra was distracted when Nyriss fired a burst of lightning at her meaning her barrier was far more likely what is called by Darth Ant's barrier blog, a greater force shield. So the fact that Nyriss broke through Meetra's greater force shield is a clear show of superiority on Nyriss's part. So yeah, Nyriss>> Meetra.

Also are  there any actual sources that say Meetra was weaker during her time on Dromund Kaas, or are you merely making excuses for her lackluster performance in the novel.

And thanks.

The actual quote is this:

Nyriss seized on the opportunity to focus all her efforts on breaking through Meetra’s defenses. The Jedi was clearly overmatched; though she managed to hold her ground, she was forced down to one knee.

Meetra in a heavily weakened state was physically outmatched, but held her ground.

Meetra is stated to have defended herself in the same way as Darth Nyriss had done when defending herself from Scourge's push:

Dazed, he looked up just in time to see another bolt of violet lightning catch Meetra in the chest. Like Nyriss, she threw up a barrier to save herself from the worst of it, but she was still knocked from her feet.

Furthermore the effects of Nathema's Void and Dromund Kaas' nexus are made clear here:

http://suspectinsight.forumotion.com/t171-jedi-exile-meetra-surik-chronological-respect-thread-2019

It is simple, Meetra was specifically stated to be hindered on a nexus that was in a far more powerful state than the one that hindered Luke Skywalker, after having endured far worse trauma than having her spirit emptied and having a world's worth of pain destroy her psyché.

Nyriss is not, and never was >> Surik.

Vader snaps Revan’s arms with one swing

@LadyKulvax "Like Nyriss, she threw up a barrier to save herself..." All this is stating is that Meetra also threw up a barrier to protect against a force attack. Nowhere does it state that Meetra threw up the same type of barrier as Nyriss. This makes sense given the context. Instinctive barriers are thrown up when the user is surprised by a sudden unexpected force attack. Meetra was not surprised nor was the attack unexpected. There's no reason why Meetra would choose to throw up an instinctive barrier over a greater one. Even with the Nexus's effect its unlikely that Meetra>Nyriss. Whether or not Nyriss is > or < Meetra on neutral ground isn't relevant to my point anyways. My point was that while on Dromund Kaas Nyriss was >> Meetra which is relevant because its that Nyriss's charged up lightning that Revan absorbed and fired back her.

Why are you assuming that her throwing up a barrier in reaction to Nyriss' incoming lightning leaves her the time to throw up a barrier any stronger than an instinctive one? By your estimation, Meetra shouldn't be reacting at all, in all actuality.

Which is irrelevant because without that nexus and suffering the void beforehand. Meetra would be much more powerful and thus that line of scaling is massively flawed.

@LadyKulvax All a greater force shield is  under Ant's classification is the standard force shield that Force users put up to protect against force attacks.  Its the greater force shields not instinctive force shields  that are used under standard conditions. Only as a last resort when an attack is unexpected are instinctive force shields used. Since Meetra was not distracted nor was the attack unexpected the only logical assumption is that the barrier that Meetra used was a greater one.

In regards to my scaling. Say for a reference point of force power base meetra has a power of....20. Now lets say base Nyriss has a power of 19. Since the attack that Revan reflected did not come from base nyriss, nyriss's base power is irrelevant in trying to get a gauge of the level of attack Revan deflected. Now lets say Nyriss's power while on Dromund Kaas is say 28. Knowing the attack that Revan reflected came from that Nyriss is useful in scaling because it tells us the level of power the attack was in reference to base Meetra. Note that these numbers were arbitraily chosen and were used in an attempt to illustrate my point in a clear manner.

KingofBlades wrote:@Azronger Correct me if I'm wrong but incinerating opponents via unamped force lightning has only been done by Darth Sidious.

Bane has disintegrated non-Force users before with his lightning (as has Starkiller but that's extraneous to this). And all doing so to Force users really involves is having the power to break their Force barrier, and the remaining power of the lightning being enough to turn the unprotected body to ash. So when it comes to high-tier Force users, there's really not much difference between killing others and incinerating them so long as one is powerful enough to tear through their barriers. That's why I don't view Revan's feat as anything spectacular; just because it's rare doesn't mean it's top-tier.

@LadyKulvax To further expand upon my thoughts in regards to the effects of the nexus on Meetra. In Revan's case the prescence of the nexus made it so he was a bit weaker than Vitiate. One could surmise that without the nexus Revan Reborn would've been > Novel Vitiate. In Meetra's case she is considerably weaker than Nyriss on the Nexus. Without the nexus in my opinion  Meetra should not be more than slightly more powerful than Nyriss. Coupled with the fact that Meetra was fighting along side nexus amped Scourge, I have concluded that Nyriss while on Dromund Kaas should be noticeably more powerful than base Meetra. Though I admit this scaling relies on a bit of guessing of how powerful base Meetra is relative to the Nexus amped characters.

KingofBlades wrote:@LadyKulvax All a greater force shield is  under Ant's classification is the standard force shield that Force users put up to protect against force attacks.  Its the greater force shields not instinctive force shields  that are used under standard conditions. Only as a last resort when an attack is unexpected are instinctive force shields used. Since Meetra was not distracted nor was the attack unexpected the only logical assumption is that the barrier that Meetra used was a greater one.

In regards to my scaling. Say for a reference point of force power base meetra has a power of....20. Now lets say base Nyriss has a power of 19. Since the attack that Revan reflected did not come from base nyriss, nyriss's base power is irrelevant in trying to get a gauge of the level of attack Revan deflected. Now lets say Nyriss's power while on Dromund Kaas is say 28. Knowing the attack that Revan reflected came from that Nyriss is useful in scaling because it tells us the level of power the attack was in reference to base Meetra. Note that these numbers were arbitraily chosen and were used in an attempt to illustrate my point in a clear manner.

You're assuming she expected it, when first the entire exchange is from a 'dazed' Scourge's perspective and secondly, she is doing so in response to Nyriss' lightning. There's no reason she could be expected to summon a greater Force shield at all. Nor is a Force shield even meant for absorbing lightning. Tutaminis is.

Nyriss being amped isn't relevant, Meetra being so hindered both psychologically and thus in terms of power, is. Nyriss really didn't overpower Surik as much as people suggest. In the first place, Nyriss used the momentum they'd afforded her in dodging the lightning so she could keep them on the defensive. Scourge was effectively useless in all but one part of the fight, where Nyriss didn't expect it.

@Azronger Ah thanks for clarifying that. However based on the descriptions given in Revan's fights between Nyriss and Vitiate. Revan seems to put more effort in deflecting Nyriss's supercharged lightning than Vitiate's standard lightning. Assuming Novel Vitiate is in the same tier as Plagueis (who for the record I have above Novel Vitiate as his GOAT accolades still apply to Vitiate at that point in his life) then Revan's tutaminis feat is still imprssive enough to contend with the PT greats. And even if it doesn't quite do so SOR revan is a more powerful incarnation than Revan Reborn and would be capable of higher caliber feats.

The Plagueis blurb is subjective and not infallible. Vitiate on the other hand has the express accolade from Revan of being > Nihilus.