Ranking the SWTOR and KOTOR era sith

LadyKulvax wrote:Something like:

1.Wrath/Nox 'Lander
2.Darth Malgus (Onslaught)
3.Sith Emperor (Novel)
4.Darth Nihilus
5.First Son
6.Darth Malak
7.Darth Revan
8.Darth Traya
9.Darth Thanaton
10.Exal Kressh

LadyKulvax wrote:Something like:

1.Wrath/Nox 'Lander
2.Darth Malgus (Onslaught)
3.Sith Emperor (Novel)
4.Darth Nihilus
5.First Son
6.Darth Malak
7.Darth Revan
8.Darth Traya
9.Darth Thanaton
10.Exal Kressh

DarthAnt66 wrote:Welcome to Suspect Insight.

1-2. These two are likely more powerful than the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- The Emperor's Wrath
- Darth Malgus

3. The Voice of the Emperor.

4-10. These six are weaker than, but plausibly somewhat near, the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- Darth Malak
- Darth Marr
- Darth Jadus
- The First Son
- Darth Baras
- Darth Nox
- Darth Soverus 

That's admittedly a pretty vague list, but I think it's hard to differentiate a lot of these Sith. I might try to revisit this thread later this week diving more in-depth. The general gist is, though, that 4-10 all have statements or performances putting them either near one-another or at the upper echelon of the Dark Council, and Scourge notes that the most powerful Dark Councillors would pose a combative threat to the Voice (who should be even more powerful than the Vitiate seen in the Revan novel). 

I'm excluding Darth Nihilus, Tulak Hord, and the Dread Masters, although the Dread would be #1 otherwise. Ancient Sith like Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, etc. probably don't make the cut. I would put all these named characters above Darth Tenebrous and most of the Banites. My reasoning is outlined here: 

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2804-a-case-for-the-neo-antediluvians

DarthAnt66 wrote:Welcome to Suspect Insight.

1-2. These two are likely more powerful than the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- The Emperor's Wrath
- Darth Malgus

3. The Voice of the Emperor.

4-10. These six are weaker than, but plausibly somewhat near, the Voice of the Emperor (no particular order).

- Darth Malak
- Darth Marr
- Darth Jadus
- The First Son
- Darth Baras
- Darth Nox
- Darth Soverus 

That's admittedly a pretty vague list, but I think it's hard to differentiate a lot of these Sith. I might try to revisit this thread later this week diving more in-depth. The general gist is, though, that 4-10 all have statements or performances putting them either near one-another or at the upper echelon of the Dark Council, and Scourge notes that the most powerful Dark Councillors would pose a combative threat to the Voice (who should be even more powerful than the Vitiate seen in the Revan novel). 

I'm excluding Darth Nihilus, Tulak Hord, and the Dread Masters, although the Dread would be #1 otherwise. Ancient Sith like Exar Kun, Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, etc. probably don't make the cut. I would put all the listed characters above Darth Tenebrous and the preceding Banites. My reasoning is outlined here: 

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2804-a-case-for-the-neo-antediluvians

Also would u hold Brotherhood of darkness sith, just underneath banites or below old republic sith, I always get confused as to them, we should make a thread to actually find out a good top sith list using all these scaling methods

DarthAnt66 wrote:@Halcylx: This is a contentious subject between myself and @LadyKulvax, but if you hold Darth Malak to possess powers "far greater than" Exar Kun (scan of quote below), then what you have is basically a chain of: Darth Malgus > Voice of the Emperor > Darth Malak > Exar Kun > Freedon Nadd > Darth Tenebrous > prior Banites.



You'll find arguments concerning this quote across Suspect Insight, since its potential ramifications are vast. To summarize, though, I hold that the quote clear-cut puts Malak above Kun: the question is not whether Malak is more powerful than Kun but why he is more powerful than Kun, and the usage of power concerns his personal powers (hence why cybernetic enhancement is a valid but too simple an explanation). This quote was both double-checked and twice-over personally endorsed by Leland Chee, the head of Lucasfilm Licensing, so it's canon status is very high. Meanwhile, @LadyKulvax holds that the usage of powers is vague, particularly because the author of the quote says powers there refers to multiple factors including military might and political power, and instead refers to spirit Exar Kun's fights against Luke and statements arguably binding Exar Kun above Vitiate circa the Great Sith War from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia as better indication of Kun's abilities. I hope @LadyKulvax views my characterization of both sides fair here, because I don't want this thread to be derailed into another Malak vs Kun debate. Like I said, you'll surely come across countless threads with arguments over this debate topic for you to eventually develop a fully informed stance on it if you stick around with us. 

Also, note that my Neo-Antediluvians blog does not put Freedon Nadd above peak Darth Plagueis, just Tenebrous and prior Banites. Plagueis is far more powerful than Tenebrous and potentially far more powerful than Nadd as well.

DarthAnt66 wrote:@Vaelias: Thanks man.  

Also would u hold Brotherhood of darkness sith, just underneath banites or below old republic sith, I always get confused as to them, we should make a thread to actually find out a good top sith list using all these scaling methods

Bane's far more powerful than any member of the Brotherhood but the weakest of the Banites, so I would put the Brotherhood quite low on the totem poll.

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:im not sure if anybody mentioned this already, but ill say it anyways

1- i think bane's era is still TOR
2- why arent kun and his second in command who loved some pussy not considered here?