ROTS General Grievous vs. Ulic Qel Droma

BreakofDawn wrote:@Vaelias

Can i c the quote saying Mace is a 9 plz?

Sure. It's from the Making of Revenge of the Sith:

As they approach the end of the climactic battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin, Gillard explains how he's rated the various swordsmen: "On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he says. "Sidious is a level nine[out of ten]. On this film, Obi is eight-he's moved up-Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up with Sidious.
Once you get to eight, you have a Pandora's box. You could go any way with it. The way not to go is the dark side. But it would tempt you, because that would jump you right past the others. So you need to arrive at level eight at the right age-not as young as Anakin. That young, the dark side is just too tempting."

Dooku can be scaled above mace because Dooku was states to be yodas equal before mace was,

Mace also has some. Like Dooku, both have sources contradicting this.

Mace was always stated as second to Yoda during episode 2 Dooku was stated to be his equal, Mace has not parity quotes to Yoda until episode 3

Fair enough. However, Mace is clearly operating at a similar level to Dooku by Obsession.

Thanks for the quote
This is for attack of the clones isn’t it, He says 9/10 and that Mace is a 9, then during episode 3 it was only 9/9 and that was when mace was stated to be a 8 bordering on nine, it seems that an attack of the clones 9 is equivalent to a ROTS 8.

Yeh I definitely think mace and dooku are on the same level with Dooku being slightly stronger in the force and mace being a slightly better duelist

@Vaelias

Thanks for the quote

Anytime.

This is for attack of the clones isn’t it, He says 9/10 and that Mace is a 9, then during episode 3 it was only 9/9 and that was when mace was stated to be a 8 bordering on nine, it seems that an attack of the clones 9 is equivalent to a ROTS 8.

No. The start of it is ("On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he says. "Sidious is a level nine[out of ten]") and the rest is referring to ROTS ("On this film, Obi is eight-he's moved up-Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up with Sidious"). I'm guessing here, but the "[out of ten]" bit was probably inserted by whoever first copied the quote. I don't remember Gillard ever saying that there's a tier 10.

Yeh I definitely think mace and dooku are on the same level with Dooku being slightly stronger in the force and mace being a slightly better duelist

Fair enough. I have Dooku above Mace in power until 19 BBY (Boz Pity), when Mace either equals him or surpasses him, and then by ROTS he's quite a bit above him via Zonakin scaling. In skill, I have them virtually equal all throughout the War until ROTS.

Grevious likely wins.

BreakofDawn wrote:@Vaelias

Thanks for the quote

Anytime.

This is for attack of the clones isn’t it, He says 9/10 and that Mace is a 9, then during episode 3 it was only 9/9 and that was when mace was stated to be a 8 bordering on nine, it seems that an attack of the clones 9 is equivalent to a ROTS 8.

No. The start of it is ("On Attack of the Clones, I had to give them levels," he says. "Sidious is a level nine[out of ten]") and the rest is referring to ROTS ("On this film, Obi is eight-he's moved up-Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up with Sidious"). I'm guessing here, but the "[out of ten]" bit was probably inserted by whoever first copied the quote. I don't remember Gillard ever saying that there's a tier 10.

Yeh I definitely think mace and dooku are on the same level with Dooku being slightly stronger in the force and mace being a slightly better duelist

Fair enough. I have Dooku above Mace in power until 19 BBY (Boz Pity), when Mace either equals him or surpasses him, and then by ROTS he's quite a bit above him via Zonakin scaling. In skill, I have them virtually equal all throughout the War until ROTS.

Ahhh ok, he is also stated to be 8 bordering on 9 so we can assume he’s a low 9 an yeh with Dooku being a high 8, thanks for that, could u explain this Zonakin scaling to me I’m interested in why you have Windu above Mace as I’m not sure about that one myself. I’m constantly swapping them around

Ahhh ok, he is also stated to be 8 bordering on 9 so we can assume he’s a low 9

The 9s don't have "low", "mid" and "high" tiers. They're all in the same bracket, just with varying levels of ability, e.g. Mace is slightly more skilled than Sidious but Sidious is a bit more powerful.

an yeh with Dooku being a high 8, thanks for that,

No worries. For what it's worth, I have Dooku in the "8.5" tier (my term for characters who can fit into the large gap that's at the very cusp of the tier 9s but still significantly below them) so far above many tier 8s.

could u explain this Zonakin scaling to me I’m interested in why you have Windu above Mace as I’m not sure about that one myself. I’m constantly swapping them around

1. Zonakin Anakin manhandles Dooku, who is (as I've said) imo an "8.5".
2. Zonakin is in turn < KFV due to KFV finally learning to let go of his fear and doubt and just drawing deeply upon the Dark Side, who in turn is growing exponentially by the hour.
3. According to Lucas on different occasions and some other sources, by the time of Mustafar (or shortly afterwards), Anakin became an equal to ROTS Sidious, who in turn is ~ Mace and Yoda. Anakin himself didn't seem to consider overthrowing Sidious until Mustafar, when he believed he'd reached a high enough power that he could challenge and overcome Sidious.
4. Therefore, as I see it, Sidious = post-Mustafar Anakin ~/= Yoda ~ Mace ~/> KFV > Zonakin.

It's a very rough scaling chain that I move around a lot (e.g. sometimes I have KFV equal to Mace and Yoda and by Mustafar have him make the slight gap between Yoda/Mace and Sidious, other times I believe that KFV is stronger than them) but that's the general gist of it.

Pre-KFV already trashed Mace in the ROTS game.