Darth Sidious (RotS) vs General Grievous

Sabers only. Who wins and by what margin?

Sidious should win comfortably

Grievous has no way of adequately reacting to that sheer level of speed for a prolonged period of time. He will likely match the initial onslaught, but when Sidious starts properly tapping deep into his reserves Grievous’s mind will just fry itself. His mechanically enhanced mind is good, but not good enough to process something that appears to fade in and out of existence 

Can't see Sidious losing

The moment ROTS Sheev digs into his Mace/Yoda level reserves, Grievous is done for.

Sheev’s reserves are beyond Mace’s and Yoda’s my young racist friend

CuckedCurry wrote:Sheev’s reserves are beyond Mace’s and Yoda’s my young racist friend

After ROTS, yes. Considering we clearly see something approaching Sheev's limits just as we see Yoda's in their fight, I see no reason why he'd have reserves beyond them when he's confirmed to be ~ them at this point. Afterwards is another matter altogether.

There's like 10 quotes saying Sdious was "too powerful" for Yoda in ROTS, which would make him... more powerful than Yoda circa ROTS. So curry is correct yet again

Most of them say "to defeat". There are also many saying they were evenly matched or equal, which would make him...around the same level as Yoda circa ROTS.

In any case, I said around their level, not strictly equal.

Most of the bin quotes don't say Yoda is less powerful outright, and there's plenty of contradictory sources declaring their equality, anyway. In cases like this, it's best to look at the primary material, and in this case, the primary material is more in line with the latter interpretation than the former - they stalemate in a Force Clash at the end of the fight.

Sheev should have way better rezerves. Yoda using Force to sustain his body exhausts him even further.

Yes, too powerful to defeat = just as powerful 

Sidious' power BEFORE Order 66 was too much for Mace's Vaapad as well.

Yes, too powerful to defeat = just as powerful  

Your sarcasm needs major work. That said, I assume that you think other near equals like the Son and the Daughter have a clear superior despite being stated more than once to be equal/evenly matched, yet neither is powerful enough to comprehensively defeat the other. Sidious failed to outright overpower Yoda, and the same goes for Yoda failing to overpower Sidious. That is literally the definition of being evenly matched.

As for Yoda and Sidious:

The shadow released its power for an instant, long enough only to whirl away through the air and alight upon one of the delegation pods as it flew past, and the creature leapt to follow—Half a second too slow.
The shadow unleashed its lightning while the creature was  still in the air, and the little green freak took its full power. The shock blasted him backward to crash against the podium, and he fell.
He fell a long way.


The  base  of  the  Arena  was  a  hundred  meters  below,  littered  with twisted scraps and jags of metal from the pods destroyed in the battle, and as the little green freak fell, finally, above, the victorious shadow became once again only Palpatine: a very old, very tired man, gasping for air as he leaned on the pod's rail.


Annnnd then there's the G-Canon depiction:





Which clearly shows the two of them being roughly evenly matched until the explosion ends the duel, and I'm not sure what you're on about. I wasn't aware that blasting someone in mid air or managing to hold on to a pod when your much smaller and thus lighter opponent is knocked away proves your superiority, but okay. Whatever floats your boat.

Sidious' power BEFORE Order 66 was too much for Mace's Vaapad as well.

Not dealing with this red herring. Gone into it before.

Your sarcasm needs major work. That said, good to know you think that the Son is clearly > the Daughter but also that the Daughter is clearly > the Son, since neither could overpower or defeat the other and equals or near equals can't possible stalemate each other.

False equivalency, since Sidious isn't just stated to be an equal of Yoda, but in addition more powerful as well. He has the edge in power, even if it's not significant, and thus more reserves.

Another point of comparison is the "red herring", which it isn't because you've said twice now in this very thread that Yoda and Windu have the same level of Force reserves. Yet, when given sufficient time to unleash his lightning, Sidious's power overwhelms an amped Mace. Then Order 66 happens.

Not sure what your citation of the novel proves, except that Sidious outmaneuvers and blasts Yoda before he can react.

Sidious destroys.

Yoda still put up a better fight against Sidious than Mace did and this was even when Mace was amped far above his normal level. It may of looked like Mace was more successful when he fought Sidious but you have to look at the context of the duel. Yoda was actually capable of exhausting Sidious, which Mace failed to do. Mace without his Vaapad is inferior to either by a large margin. George said that Mace could contend with Sidious but it is likely this is purely through his Vaapad. 

OT: Sidious

G-canon has Sheev > Yoda

The main novel makes Palpatine's victory pretty apparent, it is ultimately Yoda who took the lightning blast and Yoda who lost and not in any lightning stalemate. Palpatine commenting Yoda  coming to the actual limits to his power also strongly implies that Palpatine is actually better than Yoda because:

He doesn't make any comment like that on his own power though. Should he have been coming to his limits as well, he might have mentioned "Hmm we both have reached the limits, time to end the battle", and the absolute lack of any concern pertaining to his own limits suggests that he had more in the tank than Yoda

He basically engineers a lapse in Yoda's defense when he comes to that realization and on sensing Yoda coming to his limits. That culminates in Yoda taking a lightning blast and losing the battle. Note, that had it been a case of Yoda being caught off guard or an event basically randomly happening in battle( like Palpatine blasting him with lightning at the beginning), then Palpatine could have done that anytime. Should that instance "not" have been an indication that Palpatine is better than Yoda then, Palpatine wouldn't have waited till he "sensed Yoda coming to his limits" and then initiated that exchange. He would have immediately done it, when he got the chance. That that exchange happens after power and strength is directly mentioned, and is the condition on which that exchange happens suggests that there is a power gap between the two 

Basically, Sidious exploiting a lapse and blasting Yoda with lightning might look like a random event but the evident mention of power and Yoda's limitations actually causing Palpatine to begin that exchange suggests that Palpatine has more power than Yoda. 

While the movie obviously has both of them as equals, there is more than enough evidence to support Palpatine, while almost no statement has Yoda actually having more power than Palpatine. Combine that with the novel and on the whole, Palpatine seems to win

OT: Palpatine wins

Cringe.

Sheev obviously.

NotAA3 wrote:Cringe.

Explain

Considering Sidious speed and the fact that Kenobi could bent Grievous arm "like a cheap spoon" Sheev has a good chance at killing Grievous with his bare hands, let alone with a saber.