Jaina Solo vs Meetra Surik vs Shaak Ti

HellfireUnit wrote:I don't see why Meetra should be anywhere near Marka Ragnos who is cucked by Korr while he was still a noob.

Korr facing Ragnos' spirit, which is nothing like full power Ragnos, is absolutely one of the most misinterpreted fights ever. Ragnos' spirit at certain points makes Tavion outright immune to Jaden Korr's Force attacks. Which alone completely shits on the idea Korr was anywhere near him.

Bad logic, bad argument. Meetra wins.

Yeah, Korr didn't really legit beat tavion/Ragnos. Because Tavion's body could only use so much of Ragnos' power and it was also stated directly that Tavion's body got overwhelmed by Ragnos' power.

Solo dies. Followed by Shaak Ti. So Meetra Probably

LadyKulvax wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:I don't see why Meetra should be anywhere near Marka Ragnos who is cucked by Korr while he was still a noob.

Korr facing Ragnos' spirit, which is nothing like full power Ragnos, is absolutely one of the most misinterpreted fights ever. Ragnos' spirit at certain points makes Tavion outright immune to Jaden Korr's Force attacks. Which alone completely shits on the idea Korr was anywhere near him.

Bad logic, bad argument. Meetra wins.

Then prove it AP. Prove Ragnos wasn't at his full strength. Nothing indicates Ragnos was weakened instead he was being ridicilously amped by the nexuses.

Considering Meetra is a child compared to Ancient Sith, I don't see why she shouldn't get oneshot by Ti at least.

HellfireUnit wrote:Considering Meetra is a child compared to Ancient Sith, I don't see why she shouldn't get oneshot by Ti at least.

Entirely out of context. Meetra was considered a child with respect to her lightsaber skill specifically to the Ancient Sith and not necessarily overall power.

Kreia: This was the tomb of Tulak Hord, known as the greatest lightsaber duelist of the Sith Lords. His skill was considered remarkable even in his time, when many true lightsaber masters lived.
 
Meetra: Are you saying modern Jedi are poorly skilled with the lightsaber?
 
Kreia: If you were to face an ancient Sith Lord in combat, you would learn that we are as children playing with toys compared to the prowess of the old masters.
 
Meetra: What made him so good?
 
Kreia: This is unknown. But supposedly he created a holocron to teach his technique to other Sith. The holocron would have been laid to rest in his tomb.
 
Kreia’s ‘children’ quote was specifically about lightsaber combat and lightsaber skill relative to the modern Jedi. Kreia first opens up about Tulak Hord and goes into how great of a lightsaber duelist he was and praises his ‘remarkable’ skill and how he was the best lightsaber duelist even during a time where ‘true lightsaber masters lived.’ Meetra then asks Kreia if the modern Jedi are poorly skilled with lightsabers. Kreia responds to that question, about skill with lightsabers, by stating the ‘children’ quote. Notice how Kreia says ‘playing with toys’ which would not have made much sense if we are talking about power, especially when the context leading to this was strictly about lightsaber combat and skill. The ‘playing with toys’ is directly related to lightsaber combat and how the modern Jedi carry lightsabers like they are ‘playing with toys’. Not only that, but notice how Kreia also mentions the ‘prowess of the old masters’ part. ‘Prowess’ is defined as skill/expertise/mastery which is directly related to technique/skill of something and not raw power. The ‘the old masters’ part of the quote is directly related to the ‘when many true lightsaber masters lived’ in the previous quote by Kreia. Put simply, Kreia is essentially talking about how Tulak was the greatest lightsaber duelist and how he was considered remarkable even during a time when ‘true lightsaber masters’ lived and then relates it the modern Jedi by saying that they are essentially ‘playing with toys’ instead of lightsabers when compared to the skill/mastery of the old masters lightsaber combat (i.e the true lightsaber masters period). This is even further supported by the last quote where, after Meetra asks what made Tulak so good, Kreia responds by saying that it is ‘unknown’ but that Tulak made a holocron to teach his technique of lightsaber combat to others. The fact that Kreia answers with ‘technique’ right after Meetra questions what made Tulak ‘so good’, is a further indication that this wasn’t about the power of the ancients and that it wasn’t necessarily raw power that made Tulak ‘so good’, but instead it was his lightsaber combat skills/technique relative to the modern Jedi. And this is all shown in the context of the conversation that took place.

Darth Nihilus wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Considering Meetra is a child compared to Ancient Sith, I don't see why she shouldn't get oneshot by Ti at least.

Entirely out of context. Meetra was considered a child with respect to her lightsaber skill specifically to the Ancient Sith and not necessarily overall power.

Yes I know. Considering she is even a worse Force User, she is pretty pathetic anyways.

HellfireUnit wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:I don't see why Meetra should be anywhere near Marka Ragnos who is cucked by Korr while he was still a noob.

Korr facing Ragnos' spirit, which is nothing like full power Ragnos, is absolutely one of the most misinterpreted fights ever. Ragnos' spirit at certain points makes Tavion outright immune to Jaden Korr's Force attacks. Which alone completely shits on the idea Korr was anywhere near him.

Bad logic, bad argument. Meetra wins.

Then prove it AP. Prove Ragnos wasn't at his full strength. Nothing indicates Ragnos was weakened instead he was being ridicilously amped by the nexuses.

All spirits are naturally weaker bar the main bois Valky and Sheev. This is common knowledge. The nexuses aren't amping him, that energy was used to summon Ragnos from chaos in the first place. Korriban would act as an anchor for Ragnos' spirit which is what is needed for a spirit to exist in the first place.

As far as Ragnos being weaker in actual sources goes. It's confirmed in TCSWE that Ragnos' full return was prevented:



It's further confirmed that Ragnos' spirit was limited:



The sword of Ragnos was strong enough to periodically make Tavion immune to Korr's powers:



Given items created through alchemy are powered by an imprint of the creator's power, this reflects the power Ragnos weilded in life:



Note: Which basically means Ragnos laughably no-sells anything Korr could try to throw at him.

As far as trying to claim Shaak Ti > Marka Ragnos goes. Marka Ragnos in his prime is literally 2,000 years worth of constant raw power growth from Karness Muur and the rest of the Exiles:



He's also, like, outright stated to be the most powerful so far:

Chronicles of the Old Republic wrote:Meanwhile, on the far side of the galaxy, the Sith Empire has grown powerful through centuries of dark Force wielding and magic and the hundred-year rule of the greatest Dark Lord of the Sith, MARKA RAGNOS.

Karness Muur isn't just outright stated to be > Vader who is demonstratably >> TFU Shaak Ti:



He's also confirmed to quite possibly be more powerful than the strongest iteration of Darth Krayt we've seen so far by that point, and also Darth Wyyrlok III, in Legacy, by Ostrander:



Marka Ragnos laughably one-shots Ti and both of her opponents. Stop using this shit argument.

AP wrote:All spirits are naturally weaker bar the main bois Valky and Sheev. This is common knowledge

citation needed

My post already has citations further on in the post. But if that's not enough, even Emperor Palpatine nearly entirely disappeared after a year in a spiritual state:

Dark Empire Sourcebook wrote:He had spent over a year disembodied, formless, drifting through the maddening void of the Dark Side. He had never foreseen having to transport his spirit so far across space. He had nearly dispersed forever, but he had survived, and now need never fear death again.

He is one of the two or three most powerful beings of all time. We've seen Muur, Nadd, Sheev and Kun all desiring the reacquisition of physical form because spirits can't generate energy by themselves. Their power is finite.

Perhaps i missed it but your sources don't back the claim that spirits are "naturally weaker".