Jaina Solo vs Meetra Surik vs Shaak Ti

Standard rules

Solo>Ti>Surik

Ti isn't > the Exile, lmao.

Honestly, not sure. FOTJ Jaina got smoked pretty hard by a far, far less potent version of Dromund Kaas than an already weakened Exile faced. Exile in a better state, a version that gets to meditate with Revan and achieves the best state she has in the novel post-Nathema is a legitimate threat to Vitiate. Not on the level of Revan but enough to suggest that she's got some weight to thrown around.

Yeah, probably Exile.

Ti > Surik > Solo

Jaina should have been better than she is (muh Sword of the Jedi), but she still wins, Shatterpoint is a neat trick and FotJ hypes her up as one of the NJOs heavy hitters, coupled with a few decent pre-prime feats like slaying a Slayer or giving Kyp trouble, I don't see the others matching her.

Jaina Solo whitout any difficulty

Regardless I think we can all agree that Jaina isn't Yoda level like some suggest.

@TheNuissanceBird

I would agree to that. Her entire family line is honestly the most extreme case of lost potential in Star Wars. Starting off with Anakin marrying a non-force-sensitive, then continuing with Leia allowing her skills to go underdeveloped for decades and marrying another non-force-sensitive. Jaina is then taugth in Lukes hippie school to just do whats natural to her and unironically prioritises piloting over being a jedi for a long time (when she stops she is caught in Denning-era terrible writing) and marrying yet another non-force-sensitive after a 30+ novel on- and off again-relationship. Fast forward to Legacy and her descendants look really crappy compared to Lukes.

I'm interested to hear exactly what puts her beyond the Exile. Especially to the degree that Jaina wins here without any difficulty. Lmao.

RhoyneDelta wrote:@TheNuissanceBird

I would agree to that. Her entire family line is honestly the most extreme case of lost potential in Star Wars. Starting off with Anakin marrying a non-force-sensitive, then continuing with Leia allowing her skills to go underdeveloped for decades and marrying another non-force-sensitive. Jaina is then taugth in Lukes hippie school to just do whats natural to her and unironically prioritises piloting over being a jedi for a long time (when she stops she is caught in Denning-era terrible writing) and marrying yet another non-force-sensitive after a 30+ novel on- and off again-relationship. Fast forward to Legacy and her descendants look really crappy compared to Lukes.

Oh boy had Anakin fucked another Force sensitive with his potential......that'd be terrifying.

FotJ hypes her up as one of the NJOs heavy hitters

Can you quantify how this assists her against any of the people here? Who also can be classified as "heavy hitters" relatively in their era?

coupled with a few decent pre-prime feats like slaying a Slayer or giving Kyp trouble

I fail to see how the slayer compares to Ti's feats against Marek or Magnaguards? Surik is no pushover either..

Also Jaina never gave Kyp toruble. He tanked an attack she launched with lethal intent with no issue and then effortlessly dueled her and there's no real indication Jaina grew more powerful in any substantive degree after this.

Yeah, I don't see how Jaina or Shaak are as strong as Meetra.

HeartoftheForce wrote:Ti > Surik > Solo

Prolly go with this

What's Ti got over the Exile?

HeartoftheForce wrote:

FotJ hypes her up as one of the NJOs heavy hitters

Can you quantify how this assists her against any of the people here? Who also can be classified as "heavy hitters" relatively in their era?

coupled with a few decent pre-prime feats like slaying a Slayer or giving Kyp trouble

I fail to see how the slayer compares to Ti's feats against Marek or Magnaguards? Surik is no pushover either..

Also Jaina never gave Kyp toruble. He tanked an attack she launched with lethal intent with no issue and then effortlessly dueled her and there's no real indication Jaina grew more powerful in any substantive degree after this.

Kyp Durron would probably a go-to example, he has quite a lot of impressive feats. Others would be the likes of Saba Sebatyne.

Ti ultimately lost against pre-prime Marek, despite being amped by Felucia and having a army helping her, I don't really see the comparison here. Magnaguards were also stated to be weak against unconventional attacks, which would likely include what Ti did in the OG CW series. In said series Shaak also performs worse than Mundi on Hypori and Mundi also has his fair share of anti-feats like struggeling against thugs in Star Wars Republic or his Order 66 performance. Jaina killing a Slayer is impressive in large part because of how far before her prime she did it, but Slayers are also fairly impressive in their own right. They can fodderize elite-regular Vong who are a threat to jedi, for example a hand full of them beating A'sharad Hett. 2 Slayers defeated 11 warriors in The Unifying Force so one Slayer might have sufficed in A'sharads situation. Granted Hett was also unprepared, but still pretty impressive. Kyp Durron, leia and Han were also unable to defeat 4 weakened Slayers.  Whats more a poisoned Slayer could compete with Kyp Durron in a tug of war. A serious GM Luke also thought Jaina would be worth taking into the final fight against Shimmra and his army of Slayers. That alone is probably worth more than pre-prime, yet significantly-stronger-than-Surik Revan thinking Surik might help a little against Vitiate, especially since we see in the fight that even Revans droid could make a significant contribution.

Jaina also has scaling from further back during the Young Jedi Knights. Luke notes that the new generation of Nightsisters is more dangerous than the last. (which had a lot of decent feats in Courtship of Princess Leia) The leader of the new Nightsisters Tamith Kai then got defeated by teenage Tenel Ka (who Jaina is comparable to) with one non-force  enhanced kick. Tamiths apprentice Vilas could also summon giant thunder storms and slay Dathomir-Rancors who dwarf regular Rancors. He was killed by Zekk who is well sub-Jaina.

Eh Jaina was young and afterwards continually thrust into new battles it's only natural for her to grow, plus she dedicated herself to the blade in the Second Civil War and even learned Shatterpoint in a short amount of time, showing her strong potential for growth and her drive to become a better combatant. The Kaas nexus thing is not looking too good for Jaina, but it might have also just been Luke warning the NJO members because they all are pretty close to the darkside with Luke having lost his fair share of students and most notable NJO jedi had a  darkside phase, plus Luke even with a small fraction of his power is clearly superior to Surik or Ti and he said that it could still be troublesome for him.

Jaina is also noted to thrive in chaotic fights which a 1v1v1 would likely be and her style is argueably more unconventional than either Suriks or Tis. Due to the Vong she also had to learn how to fight groups without the help of sensory powers or precognition further honing her spatial awareness and reflexes.

Unlike Xolthol I am not claiming that Jaina no-diffs the competition, everyone is on a spectrum with low and high end performances and outliers are not all that uncommon either, but holistically I think Jaina has the best chance out of the three, unless one uses a excessive amount of NJO downplay.

My problem is really that Jaina's not got this unconventional fighting edge. Shaak Ti's got a similar accolade from her peers but if anyone has that edge. It's the Exile. Not only does she have skills in Mandalorian and Echani martial arts that are praised by members of either culture. We know that she's able to adapt and adopt on the fly, that's what she does. And at rates that utterly dwarf Jedi masters Kreia has known.

The Exile's combative abilities are absolutely top-notch. Not only does she surpass Kreia's combative skills about half-way through regaining her power. She is compared in combative ability, by Canderous, to Revan. She isn't just seen by Revan as significant aid that could bridge the power gap between himself and Vitiate; despite acknowledging how major that gap was. She proves this in the actual fight.

How exactly does she prove this? She throws her lightsaber across the throneroom faster than Vitiate could complete the swing of a blade, and evidently faster than his danger sense could register, and knocked that blade out of his hand. This feat caused the Emperor to analyse the Exile with caution before trying to even engage her. Evidently, he didn't sense power he could simply one-shot and be done with.

Her feat on Malachor V is also, frankly, one of the most absurd in the mythos. The Sith she fights there is far from regular grunts. It's stated that the Jedi of the era are combatively superior on average compared to even the Jedi of the Clone Wars, and also the Jedi of the NJO era. Yet the Jedi that became Revanchists and marched with Revan and Malak were the strongest Jedi of the order at that time. The war is stated to make them stronger, battle-hardened. When they returned as Sith, they're stated to learn even more under Jorak Uln and become even stronger. The Sith that survived the Sith Civil War directly after the death of Darth Malak were the strongest, indeed 'culling the weak' and 'electing leadership by the lightsaber blade'. The Sith on Malachor V are stated to be a legion of the most elite of those Sith. Many of them having earned their place by winning in combat against ten other Force-users.

Not only does she wipe out this legion in a battle stated to be attritional and in which there's 'no substitute' for raw combative prowess. Intentionally designed by Traya to be the ultimate combative test in which no one could show 'any quarter'. Literally, the entire academy was prepared before she even killed Darth Nihilus, and was gathering strength.

She then faces mega-amped Darth Sion, the guy who without that amp walks off an enraged Force blast from Darth Nihilus at nigh-point blank range, which buckled bridge supports and disintegrate heavily-armoured troopers.

That's when she fights Darth Traya, the woman who one-shots the three most powerful Jedi Masters around whilst lecturing them about how blind they were, three Jedi Masters that are all each equal to dark side Bastila without a Star Forge amp. And absorbs their collective life and Force strength to finish them; to a degree that their corpses appear as absences in the Force. The difference being that this is Traya amped by a dark side nexus that is a 'colossal geyser of dark side energy.' So strong it sends out echoes across the galaxy.

There's also scaling to make from Terrak Morrhage who is on Malachor III concurrently as this happens. Whose raw power is causing a system-wide dark side cloud. But that's another thing entirely.

Frankly, that's just more impressive than what Jaina's done and certainly moreso than Ti.

Surik > Ti > Solo.

@LadyKulvax

Don't forget that Kreia one-shot those 3 Jedi masters while she wasn't even amped by the powerful DS Nexus of Malachor V which was powerful enough to shape the entire planet. Yet Meetra ,whilst hindered by this Nexus, defeated amped Kreia in the middle of the academy where it is most concentrated and this is after she had to fight many Sith Assassins and Sion 3 times, who were all amped while Meetra hindered. Despite Kreia being mentioned to be more powerful than Meetra in that fight, Meetra still won and this goes to show how impressive her combative abilities and skill really is (also how impressive her endurance/stamina is too). And this is while she was hindered which would have also hindered her combative skill due to pre-cognition and what not.

I noted literally all of that, in far greater detail, but yeah.

Jaina wins. She's got experience, power, skill, pedigree, training, accomplishments, and she's a fairly consistently written and well developed character over 30 novels. 

The complete opposite of Meetra.

KOTOR 2 was always a gigantic inconsistent mess.The same types of fans always show up to rep it with "Cut Content is canon", nonexistent source books, video game mechanics, etc. due to its vague nature that allows a lot of shifting goal posts in debates. It's been that way for 10 years across every SW forum whenever KOTOR 2 and Meetra come up.

Shak Ti is a joke. She's your basic prequel Jedi master who's main accomplishment is multiple deaths.

If you want to rep a female Togruta rep Filoni's pet Ahsoka or SWTOR's Ashara.

None of that's an argument, that's just admitting bias.

Bias does not preclude truth.

No evidence does. And you have provided none.

I don't see why Meetra should be anywhere near Marka Ragnos who is cucked by Korr while he was still a noob.

Meetra>Ti>Solo