Snoke vs RotS Anakin

TheNuisanceBird wrote:^ It's honestly more likely Anakin would ragdoll Snoke.

xmysticgohanx wrote:

TheNuisanceBird wrote:^ It's honestly more likely Anakin would ragdoll Snoke.

Didn’t Luke compare Snoke to Palpatine? There’s no way Anakin ragdolls

TheNuisanceBird wrote:

xmysticgohanx wrote:

TheNuisanceBird wrote:^ It's honestly more likely Anakin would ragdoll Snoke.

Didn’t Luke compare Snoke to Palpatine? There’s no way Anakin ragdolls

I was saying how it'd be more likely than Snoke ragdolling Anakin not that it'd be likely to happen in the first place. 

Even then Luke in canon regarding sequel era content is an idiot. What does he know.

MyGod000 wrote:If Snoke is as Powerful as people are saying then he has the Advantage in force powers. The highest I see Anakin pre-suit at his peak is Yoda and ROTS Sidious tier. 

Snoke is physically weak. However, when you are as powerful as ROTJ Sidious you don't really need to be physically strong.


Overall...I think Anakin takes this Regardless of the disparity in power...Ben wasn't even close to Anakin's level  and he managed to kill Snoke just by cutting him in half something that even maul was able to survive.

Underachiever599 wrote:

TheNuisanceBird wrote:

xmysticgohanx wrote:

TheNuisanceBird wrote:^ It's honestly more likely Anakin would ragdoll Snoke.

Didn’t Luke compare Snoke to Palpatine? There’s no way Anakin ragdolls

I was saying how it'd be more likely than Snoke ragdolling Anakin not that it'd be likely to happen in the first place. 

Even then Luke in canon regarding sequel era content is an idiot. What does he know.

You may not like the depiction of Sequel Luke, but your claim that he's an idiot is utterly unfounded. Poor portrayal or not, Canon Luke is hands down one of the most knowledgeable characters in all of Canon, having dug up a great deal of ancient and lost knowledge. The only other character I can see having as much knowledge is Yoda, due to being alive for literal centuries.

Luke's comparison of Snoke to RotJ Palpatine is still a dubious one, though. He claims Snoke's mastery of the Dark Side rivaled Palpatine's. But that doesn't necessarily mean Snoke's power was equivalent. Mastery and power aren't the same thing.

SithSauce wrote:Snoke is implied to be below Suited Vader.
Anakin wins

xmysticgohanx wrote:Canon really loves the chosen one lmfao

SithSauce wrote:Snoke is implied to be below Suited Vader.

Galan007 wrote:

SithSauce wrote:Snoke is implied to be below Suited Vader.

What source are you referencing?

Underachiever599 wrote:I think they're alluding to an old argument based around Kylo Ren. I don't recall all the specifics, but I remember seeing people argue that since Snoke intended for Kylo to kill Luke, and Snoke holds Kylo below or around Suited Vader, this would imply Snoke is below Vader. After all, we know Snoke himself can't kill Luke, as there are at least two sources which imply Snoke and Luke fought once and Snoke lost.

Galan007 wrote:

Underachiever599 wrote:I think they're alluding to an old argument based around Kylo Ren. I don't recall all the specifics, but I remember seeing people argue that since Snoke intended for Kylo to kill Luke, and Snoke holds Kylo below or around Suited Vader, this would imply Snoke is below Vader. After all, we know Snoke himself can't kill Luke, as there are at least two sources which imply Snoke and Luke fought once and Snoke lost.

Hm.

Not sure if I'd subscribe to that, tbh.

In canon, Luke was already Vader's equal during RotJ:
"Father and son were now equally strong with the Force, and equally skilled with their lightsabers."
-Jedi vs. Sith (2016)

And Luke's power/skill should have grown considerably after the events of RotJ, given the amount of Force-related knowledge he collected and studied in the years afterward(including the massive caches of Jocatsu Nu, the High Republic, as well as the ancient texts), in addition to communing with the spirits of Anakin, Yoda, and Kenobi for a number of years.

Point being- even if Kylo had reached Vader's level, he would have still logically been stomped by ST-era Luke(just like Snoke was implied to have been.)

I'm also not entirely sure that Snoke ever really intended to send Kylo in alone to destroy Luke, given his line in TLJ:
"We will give [Luke] and the Jedi Order the death he desires. After the Rebels are gone, we will go to his planet and obliterate the entire island."

/shrug

My opinion:
ST-era Luke > Snoke ~ RotJ Palpatine > RotJ Vader = RotJ Luke > Kylo.

MyGod000 wrote:In the passage it does say VAder and Luke fought Evenly. However, Filoni stated also that Vader in that fight wasn't trying to kill Luke and that he was conflicted.

The New novel implied that ROTJ Sidious was absolutely scared shittless of Vader and could do nothing about his Betrayal. it also stated that Sidious knew for 2 years that Vader was going to betray him and still he couldn't stop Vader so he decided to go into cloning himself and learned a new Sith power.

all that implies that Vader was dangerously close to Sidious power. Luke only in a Duel proved to fight evenly with Vader...to be honest the novel implied Luke was heavily relying on the Dark side to handle Vader as well.

Galan007 wrote:

MyGod000 wrote:In the passage it does say VAder and Luke fought Evenly. However, Filoni stated also that Vader in that fight wasn't trying to kill Luke and that he was conflicted.

The New novel implied that ROTJ Sidious was absolutely scared shittless of Vader and could do nothing about his Betrayal. it also stated that Sidious knew for 2 years that Vader was going to betray him and still he couldn't stop Vader so he decided to go into cloning himself and learned a new Sith power.

all that implies that Vader was dangerously close to Sidious power. Luke only in a Duel proved to fight evenly with Vader...to be honest the novel implied Luke was heavily relying on the Dark side to handle Vader as well.

Yeah, the original novelization and even comic adaption confirm the same, but I'm not referring to those. I am referencing far more recent canon material which states that Luke's power and skill were equal to Vader's as of RotJ. They may not have been actively trying to kill each other at first(the same source states that Vader was trying to turn Luke to the dark, and Luke was trying to turn Vader to the light), but that doesn't change the fact that they were still intended to be equals -- with Luke obviously gaining the advantage when he briefly tapped into the dark side.

I wouldn't say that Palpatine was "scared shitless" of Vader. He didn't know when(or even if) Vader would betray him, but he knew it was a possibility based on the flickering light he began to sense in his apprentice, so he started making preparations to transfer his essence. Palpatine did not want to make the same mistake Plagueis had and be caught unprepared in his final moments(and thus perma-killed), so he made sure all the pieces were in place for the transference, just in case it came to that. Granted, Palpatine could have simply destroyed Vader on the spot when he began sensing the 'good' in him, but that would have left him without an apprentice for who knows how long... And given that Vader had always been extremely loyal beforehand(Palpatine himself even stated that Vader was the "perfect Sith"), his betrayal may not have been very likely in Palpatine's eyes, so killing him could have been counterproductive in the scheme of things. /shrug

I'm not saying there was a vast difference in power between Vader and Palpatine, but there was still definitely a difference between them, as Vader explicitly needed Luke's help to destroy Palpatine as of ESB.

Galan007 wrote:It's more like:
RotJ Luke(dark side amped) > RotJ Vader = RotJ Luke(standard)
...As canon indicates.

And no, Palpatine was not "scared shitless" of Vader, but I suppose you're welcome to that opinion.

That being said, there's really no reason for us to continue beyond this.