Top Ten Best Star Wars Characters?

Kilius wrote:

3. Siri Tatchi

4. Obi Wan

Really? I mean, their romance is 1000x better than Anakin and Padme but really, she is your favorite character?

Color me surprised, but what's so appealing about her that she actually is your favorite character? Not mocking, just surprised.

LOTL wrote:

Kilius wrote:

3. Siri Tatchi

4. Obi Wan

Really? I mean, their romance is 1000x better than Anakin and Padme but really, she is your favorite character?

Color me surprised, but what's so appealing about her that she actually is your favorite character? Not mocking, just surprised.

I just find her really amusing, can't really explain it.

Kenobi, Mace, Luke, Sidious, Vader and to an extent, Yoda, the concept of Bane, Revan

Don't really care about the rest tbh. Many Jedi/Sith, even the more prominent ones are simply unremarkable, template Jedi that are simply unremarkable, not interesting in any way, or the template Sith that are the same "anger increases power" crap that are repeated infinitely throughout and have no personality other than raging animals and any attempt to force a personality to them by the authors comes off as laughable. Only in the case of Sidious has it succeeded spectacularly. But then again, Sidious was always meant to be like that, and GL's vision for him spanned decades resulting in one of the best villains of all time. There are exceptions of course, but in many cases, are not remarkable enough.

Kenobi, Mace, Revan, Vader are interesting by reasons that are obvious, all of them not only have intricate arcs but have a certain charisma and charm. Luke is literally the antithesis of Bane and the Son of the Chosen One. He is supposed to represent the god-like power of Anakin actualized, the revitalization of the Jedi Order. Then Yoda, obviously embodiment of the light side, the embodiment of its fall and redemption through Luke. It is not so much about the character layer and depth than how the character resonates through you and has a mental impact on you.

Bump

1.Plagueis/Grievous
2.Grievous/Plagueis 
3.Windu
4.Wankatine
5.Obi-Wan
6.Bane
7.Traya
8.Malak
9.Ventress
10.Revan

1.Jacen
2.Jaina
3.Anakin
4.Luke
5.Galen
6.Ahsoka
7.Obi Wan
8.Yoda
9.Ben
10.Mara

1. Galen Marek.
2. Luke Skywalker.
3. Anakin Skywalker.
4. Yoda.
5. Sidious.
6. Dooku.
7. Valkorion.
8. Revan.
9. Cade Skywalker.
10. Obi-Wan/Darth Plagueis.

NotAA3 wrote:1. Galen Marek.
7. Valkorion.

Like I can understand Galen scratching a top 10000 list but are you possessed by the spirit of Valkorion to rate him this high?

LOTL wrote:

NotAA3 wrote:1. Galen Marek.
7. Valkorion.

Like I can understand Galen scratching a top 10000 list but are you possessed by the spirit of Valkorion to rate him this high?

I've always liked the character for some weird reason despite acknowledging he's far from objectively the best. It's probably partly due to bias towards TFU that I have him this high given that it was the first SW game I ever played (discounting the lego games).

1. Grievous.
2. Kenobi. 
3. Dooku.
4. Qui Gon. 
5. Anakin/Vader. 

I don't really care for many characters outside of these 5 if I'm being honest. 

Not in order, the other 5 would probably be: 

Thrawn, Ferus Olin, Luke, Jacen Solo and Boba Fett.

NotAA3 wrote:

LOTL wrote:

NotAA3 wrote:1. Galen Marek.
7. Valkorion.

Like I can understand Galen scratching a top 10000 list but are you possessed by the spirit of Valkorion to rate him this high?

I've always liked the character for some weird reason despite acknowledging he's far from objectively the best. It's probably partly due to bias towards TFU that I have him this high given that it was the first SW game I ever played (discounting the lego games).

I meant Valkorion lol

@LOTL I don't see why I shouldn't rank Valk that high tbh. He's an interesting character with great dialogue and a badass voice. What more could I ask for?

Valks also has a god complex, a character trait I always find interesting.

1 - Palpatine

2 - R2-D2

3 - Kenobi

4 - Thrawn

5 - Dooku

6 - Jinn

7 - Yoda

8 - Tarkin

9 - Vader

10 - HK-47

Honorable Mention: Carth "I don't want to talk about it" "Down you go!" while attacking his son Onasi.

I don't have anything against Valk as a character but he's a fraction of Sheev tbh.

Nah he's close character-wise tbh though Sheev is obviously still supreme.

There are some pretty glaring issues with Valkorion as a character, in my opinion.

When he was Vitiate, he was an uninspired, unapologetic carbon copy of Palpatine done worse with nothing justifying his existence from a creative standpoint. He also detracted from Revan's character in having his conversion to the dark side be the result of mindrape. Kreia's theories on Revan's fall were much more interesting.

When they turned him into Valkorion, they did so without any foreshadowing or warning, and then tried to explain he had been like this for many decades and even centuries. Essentially a complete retcon of his character. However, they did present some new and intriguing elements to the character, like him experiencing love and having transcended the Jedi and Sith's simplistic divisions of the Force. So what does one usually do with such a thing as character development? Toss it all aside, obviously, at least if one is BioWare:



They already retconned his character, so they have an opportunity to make him stand out now. But instead of capitalizing on that, they revert him back to his one-dimensional, creatively bankrupt self he was as Vitiate. And ironically, in revealing that the Sith Emperor persona was just a mask concealing his true identity, they've made him even more of a Palpatine clone while adding nothing of substance to the character and making the plot around him far more confusing.

No doubt SWTOR's biggest failure was its villain.

Qui-Gon

Meatpants wrote:Eeth Koth

Weird pick lol

@NotAA3 @DC77 Interesting how Vaders not on your lists anymore

It is funny here cause Vitiate/Valk isn't even a good character in my eyes, yet these arguments leave me utterly unconvinced.   

When he was Vitiate, he was an uninspired, unapologetic carbon copy of Palpatine done worse with nothing justifying his existence from a creative standpoint. He also detracted from Revan's character in having his conversion to the dark side be the result of mindrape. Kreia's theories on Revan's fall were much more interesting.

How is this true? Vitiates goal and motivation are distinctly different than Palpatine. Vitiate wanted to experience everything, and this is a product of his lowborn existence. The Revan stuff is not a property of his character just bad writing. 

When they turned him into Valkorion, they did so without any foreshadowing or warning, and then tried to explain he had been like this for many decades and even centuries.

Him being Valkorion is not particularly out of character, given what I stated above. He wants to experience everything which would include a family and an empire.

So what does one usually do with such a thing as character development? 

Charles is purporting that Valk's belief that he has transcended light and dark is an aspect of his character. Also, what do you care? Authorial intent is valueless for you. 

 

They already retconned his character, so they have an opportunity to make him stand out now. But instead of capitalizing on that, they revert him back to his one-dimensional, creatively bankrupt self he was as Vitiate

Wut? These direct parallels between Vitiate and Sidious don't hold much water outside of thematics. They both have different goals and different motivations. 

Order is in terms of who I find the most to least compelling as a character.

Legends:

1. Anakin.
2. Obi-Wan.
3. Vader.
4. Mace.
5. Valkorion.
6. Dooku.
7. Vaylin.
8. Yoda.
9. Senya
10. Sidious.

Canon:

1. Vader.
2. Anakin.
3. Luke.
4. Obi-Wan.
5. Ahsoka.
6. Ventress.
7. Dooku.
8. Ventress.
9. Sidious.
10. Maul.

DarthSkywalker0 wrote:It is funny here cause Vitiate/Valk isn't even a good character in my eyes, yet these arguments leave me utterly unconvinced.

 

Feel free to give your own reasons for your distaste for him. 

How is this true? Vitiates goal and motivation are distinctly different than Palpatine. Vitiate wanted to experience everything, and this is a product of his lowborn existence.

C'mon now. The two are the pretty much the same from the superficial (title, fashion sense, role in the story) to the deeper character traits (psychopathy, malignant narcissism, thanatophobia, megalomania). The only difference in their end goals is that Palpatine wanted to keep hold of his empire and rule forever while Vitiate had other career plans, but they both sought divinity and omnipotence for equally self-serving reasons with genocidal schemes to attain that. Some minute dissimilarities don't exonerate Vitiate from his Palpatine clone status.

The Revan stuff is not a property of his character just bad writing. 

Sure, but a character's actions in the story contribute to whether I personally like or dislike them, and Vitiate's mindrape of Revan is a big minus for me. If you think this is not relevant here, though, feel free to not respond.

Him being Valkorion is not particularly out of character, given what I stated above. He wants to experience everything which would include a family and an empire.

It's out of character in the sense that we are never given any indication Vitiate has been a completely different person behind the scenes for however long; the personality swap from SoR to KotFE is awkward and abrupt, hence my point about no foreshadowing. The one line in the Jedi Knight story where Vitiate exposits his goals only tells us what he would do afterwards if he succeeded with his galactic biocide, not that he was already secretly a family man at present.

Charles is purporting that Valk's belief that he has transcended light and dark is an aspect of his character. Also, what do you care? Authorial intent is valueless for you.

Everything Boyd mentioned can be found in the actual source material; I'm not using his word by itself as one of the reasons for my disliking of Valkorion. I cited the quote as a window into the writers' minds - to show they really were this lacking in creativity when they wrote Valkorion. It was a jab at BioWare's writers as much as Valkorion himself.

Wut? These direct parallels between Vitiate and Sidious don't hold much water outside of thematics. They both have different goals and different motivations.

The parallels in the aggregate contribute to my disliking of Valkorion when there is embarrassingly little to set him apart otherwise.

C'mon now. The two are the pretty much the same from the superficial (title, fashion sense, role in the story) to the deeper character traits (psychopathy, malignant narcissism, thanatophobia, megalomania). The only difference in their end goals is that Palpatine wanted to keep hold of his empire and rule forever while Vitiate had other career plans, but they both sought divinity and omnipotence for equally self-serving reasons with genocidal schemes to attain that. Some minute dissimilarities don't exonerate Vitiate from his Palpatine clone status.

I mean you basically described the base traits of most archetypal villains(seeking omnipotence and megalomania (thanos, lex luther, dr. doom, father, etc ). Sidious is a copy, OMG. They have different end goals and motivating factors and that is what actually matters. How on Gods green earth is that minute? 

It's out of character in the sense that we are never given any indication Vitiate has been a completely different person behind the scenes for however long; the personality swap from SoR to KotFE is awkward and abrupt, hence my point about no foreshadowing. The one line in the Jedi Knight story where Vitiate exposits his goals only tells us what he would do afterwards if he succeeded with his galactic biocide, not that he was already secretly a family man at present.

There is an obvious distinction between being out of character and not being foreshadowed. Vitiates behavior on Zakuul is well within his established character. Duh. 

Everything Boyd mentioned can be found in the actual source material; I'm not using his word by itself as one of the reasons for my disliking of Valkorion. I cited the quote as a window into the writers' minds - to show they really were this lacking in creativity when they wrote Valkorion. It was a jab at BioWare's writers as much as Valkorion himself.

Then why did you not cite that evidence? And, you didn't even address my primary point.

The parallels in the aggregate contribute to my disliking of Valkorion when there is embarrassingly little to set him apart otherwise.

Other then the fact that characters want and need is the core of who they are in screenwriting. You've hand waved basic narrative convention to shit on him. 

1. Kyp Durron
2. Darth Vader
3. Kyle Katarn
4. Satele Shan
5. Luke Skywalker
6. Ahsoka Tano
7. Cad Bane
8. Darth Malgus
9. Darth Plagueis
10. Mace Windu