Darth Vader V Exar Kun

SithArchaeologist wrote:Yikes there's some serious Kun overrating taking hold already.

It seems likely that spirit Kun was stronger than Kun was while alive. He was able to complete his ritual and consume the Massassi just before he was killed by the Wall of Light. The quote that states he was still trying to regain the power he had while alive could be referring to that moment just then.

Given that spirit Kun is a presence out of proportion with Kun as portrayed while alive, it's the position that makes the most sense. Additionally, spirit Kun was able to dominate Luke due to Luke not having prepared for Kun's attacks, and not knowing how to defend against them. In a direct contest of wills & power, Luke prevailed fairly easily.

Malak's utter domination of the Star Forge and pushing it to over 300% capacity is a better feat than Kun has while alive. There's no doubt that Malak>living Kun.

The Divine Source wrote:See, the issue there is that no evidence supports Kun actually being more powerful as a spirit than in physical form in TOTJ, and like you said, it's stated he's trying to regain the power he had while alive. The massassi ritual has always been stated to be the means by which Kun ascended to become a force spirit, it never actually made him more powerful. Furthermore, Spirit Kun already made a return  between the events of TOTJ and JA, (he TP's some miners but ultimately gets defeated/they escape), and he's a weakened plebe compared to his FP while living. The idea that consuming some few hundred thousand massassi is turning Kun from far below SF Malak to being vastly beyond Vader as a spirit with no channel for midichlorians is "the position that makes the most sense" with the aforementioned information in mind is ludicrous.

SithArchaeologist wrote:

The Divine Source wrote:See, the issue there is that no evidence supports Kun actually being more powerful as a spirit than in physical form in TOTJ, and like you said, it's stated he's trying to regain the power he had while alive. The massassi ritual has always been stated to be the means by which Kun ascended to become a force spirit, it never actually made him more powerful. Furthermore, Spirit Kun already made a return  between the events of TOTJ and JA, (he TP's some miners but ultimately gets defeated/they escape), and he's a weakened plebe compared to his FP while living. The idea that consuming some few hundred thousand massassi is turning Kun from far below SF Malak to being vastly beyond Vader as a spirit with no channel for midichlorians is "the position that makes the most sense" with the aforementioned information in mind is ludicrous.

Well then you're failing to see the most logical conclusion: that Kun wasn't actually all that powerful, comparably speaking, as a spirit.

The Divine Source wrote:Personally, I have my own doubts on whether or not the Malak quote really applies anymore, given the number of retcons and contradictions it causes trying to rationalize the quotes and showings from JA. Even if the Malak quote is "newer" than all of these quotes and showings, I think it breaks the lore too greatly to be taken as infallible.
 
With that said, Exar Kun pounds Vader into the dirt.

The Divine Source wrote:

SithArchaeologist wrote:

The Divine Source wrote:See, the issue there is that no evidence supports Kun actually being more powerful as a spirit than in physical form in TOTJ, and like you said, it's stated he's trying to regain the power he had while alive. The massassi ritual has always been stated to be the means by which Kun ascended to become a force spirit, it never actually made him more powerful. Furthermore, Spirit Kun already made a return  between the events of TOTJ and JA, (he TP's some miners but ultimately gets defeated/they escape), and he's a weakened plebe compared to his FP while living. The idea that consuming some few hundred thousand massassi is turning Kun from far below SF Malak to being vastly beyond Vader as a spirit with no channel for midichlorians is "the position that makes the most sense" with the aforementioned information in mind is ludicrous.

Well then you're failing to see the most logical conclusion: that Kun wasn't actually all that powerful, comparably speaking, as a spirit.

You first claim that the logical conclusion is that Spirit Kun >> Living Kun given their variance in hype and showings, yet move the goal posts upon being shown more arguments/evidence.

This is far from the most logical conclusion, though, given that Spirit Kun is stated to be more powerful than Kueller (who in turn is implied to be >> Vader), more powerful than any being Corran Horn knew, in league with Sidious, etc. and was capable of magnifying Kyp's power to such an extent that he could dominate Luke Skywalker and bind his spirit outside of his body. I think people lowball this because it's a shared feat with Kyp, but we can even see in mid - KOTFE that Spirit Valkorion doing something similar with the Outlander was less effective against someone much weaker than Luke in KOTFE Arcann. Kyp has much more potential than the Outlander at that point, but that Kun could magnify Kyp's applicable power to such an extent is nigh-unprecedented when compared to similar situations. What's telling is that even when Kun is no longer directly possessing Kyp, Luke is unable to escape his spiritual binding until Exar Kun's spirit is obliterated entirely.

ArkhamAsylum3 wrote:Kun obliterates.

The Divine Source wrote:

SithArchaeologist wrote:Yikes there's some serious Kun overrating taking hold already.

It seems likely that spirit Kun was stronger than Kun was while alive. He was able to complete his ritual and consume the Massassi just before he was killed by the Wall of Light. The quote that states he was still trying to regain the power he had while alive could be referring to that moment just then.

Given that spirit Kun is a presence out of proportion with Kun as portrayed while alive, it's the position that makes the most sense. Additionally, spirit Kun was able to dominate Luke due to Luke not having prepared for Kun's attacks, and not knowing how to defend against them. In a direct contest of wills & power, Luke prevailed fairly easily.

Malak's utter domination of the Star Forge and pushing it to over 300% capacity is a better feat than Kun has while alive. There's no doubt that Malak>living Kun.

See, the issue there is that no evidence supports Kun actually being more powerful as a spirit than in physical form in TOTJ, and like you said, it's stated he's trying to regain the power he had while alive. The massassi ritual has always been stated to be the means by which Kun ascended to become a force spirit, it never actually made him more powerful. Furthermore, Spirit Kun already made a return  between the events of TOTJ and JA, (he TP's some miners but ultimately gets defeated/they escape), and he's a weakened plebe compared to his FP while living. The idea that consuming some few hundred thousand massassi is turning Kun from far below SF Malak to being vastly beyond Vader as a spirit with no channel for midichlorians is "the position that makes the most sense" with the aforementioned information in mind is ludicrous.

LadyKulvax wrote:

The Divine Source wrote:Personally, I have my own doubts on whether or not the Malak quote really applies anymore, given the number of retcons and contradictions it causes trying to rationalize the quotes and showings from JA. Even if the Malak quote is "newer" than all of these quotes and showings, I think it breaks the lore too greatly to be taken as infallible.
 
With that said, Exar Kun pounds Vader into the dirt.

There are actual reasons to dismiss it anyway.

1.The web enhancement is outdated due to the KotOR:CG Malak Character Sheet in which no similar claim was made.

2.That web enhancement can be considered a part of an overarching gameplay narrative along with the Draay near Vader and Bastila ~ Obi-Wan quotes from the same source.

3.The TOTJ Omnibus states Kun is the greatest threat the galaxy's faced since the Republic was formed, which puts Kun over the Star Forge; by extension Malak.